Resolved Retina iMac Image Retention

Discussion in 'iMac' started by redheeler, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. redheeler macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #1
    I remember how much talk of possible image retention issues there was when the display in the Retina iMac was found to be an LG. Now I find that my launch-day order Retina iMac is just barely starting to develop this. Not nearly as bad as it was on the mid 2012 rMBP I once had, but it is there nonetheless and I suspect it will get worse over time.

    Just a heads up to Retina iMac owners in case this becomes a widespread issue. It is worst in the upper right corner where this photo was taken.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. kepler20b macrumors 6502

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    Oct 18, 2014
  3. Johnf1285 macrumors 6502a

    Johnf1285

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #3
    Ugh.. Not a good sign.

    I have begun to experience IR on my 2013 iMac (this is my third display including the original, the two repairs were not done in relation to IR, though).

    I am really interested in jumping on the retina band wagon, but I was hesitant when I saw LG panels being used again. Actually, the new 5k panel is nearly the same panel since 2012 iMacs with adjustments to handle the video data and of course more pixels.

    What do you plan to do with it? Apple insists this is a byproduct of LED panels that use IPS (which may be the case).
     
  4. kepler20b macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    #4
    Samsung panels never ever have this problem.

    I lucked out on my rMBP before apple got full retard against using samsung products.

    I just dont understand why they insist on using LG/Japan display.
     
  5. senseless macrumors 68000

    senseless

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    #5
    Already? I'm not seeing this at all on mine. Do you have the brightness on high by any chance?
     
  6. Naaaaak macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    #6
    This is terrible news.

    Exchange it if you are within your return period. Don't wait. Don't feel bad, either. They won't feel bad when they refuse to replace-for-free the obviously defective screen that didn't develop severe image retention problems until after your return period. It might be years before a class action happens, too, and when it does, you'll probably just get a $50 gift card instead of the non-defective screen you always wanted.

    If you are beyond your return period, can you still get AppleCare and do it through that for free? That might be another expense you shouldn't have to pay to deal with this crap, but I feel like it's now mandatory when playing the Retina display lottery. At least, I wish I had.

    At least I'll get a new GPU when I take in my 2012 rMBP. Maybe I will ask them about the display again, then.
     
  7. redheeler thread starter macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #7
    Considering the problem is mainly in that one corner and by the upper right edge for now (although the rest of the display is just barely starting to show it) I think I may wait until it gets worse before I get a replacement, although I haven't decided yet. I have been looking for an excuse to get the display replaced because this one has an uneven color temperature and also a small bright spot underneath the pixel layer.

    If it fails Apple's in-store checkerboard test they will replace it under warranty, as I discovered with my mid 2012 rMBP.

    It is visible even at low brightness.

    ----------

    On a related note, my 13" rMBP is also showing an ever-so-slight image retention issue. Stupid LG displays :mad:
     
  8. redheeler thread starter macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #8
    I'm not in the return period, but I am still in the 1 year warranty. Good luck with your mid 2012 rMBP, I had one with this problem as well but I was lucky enough to have the display replaced within the 1 year warranty.

    I will be getting Applecare for my iMac before the warranty expires for sure. I'm glad my 13" rMBP is covered in case it gets any worse.
     
  9. aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Location:
    Serbia
    #9
    Not sure how bad your case of retention is, but I have it both on my iMac 5K and on my Retina MacBook Pro (which has a Samsung screen). It's a little bit worse on iMac, but on both it is only noticeable with Marco Arment's Retention Test.

    In fact, I didn't even notice it or think about it until I started visiting these forums. While there may be some serious cases of retention, I've been using my MBP for a year now without noticing it. If you look for faults, you'll always find something to complain, but my advice is that if you don't notice it in regular work, that you just stop thinking about it. That's what I did :)
     
  10. Johnf1285 macrumors 6502a

    Johnf1285

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #10
    Yeah these forums have driven me nuts with searching for issues. I have to tell myself to stop looking for trouble lol!

    Let's keep our fingers crossed that perhaps a new manufacturer is chosen for any upcoming iMac redesign (if history is any indicator, late 2015 could be the year we see another major redesign).
     
  11. GatorGhost macrumors regular

    GatorGhost

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    #11
    Just for my edification...how did you produce this result? Not quite sure how to get this to happen as you show. Very interested to see.
     
  12. redheeler thread starter macrumors 603

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #12
    In my case it was noticed purely by accident while zooming in on a website with a gray background. I had also experienced it long before I joined this forum on my mid 2012 rMBP.

    Out of curiosity, how did you find the manufacturer of the display on your rMBP?

    It's as simple as letting something sit on the screen for a while, such as the Safari toolbar or menu bar. Then zooming in on a dark gray background.

    There are also various image retention tests you can perform which involve showing a checkerboard pattern on the screen and seeing if it remains on a gray background afterward.
     
  13. blufrog macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    #13
  14. aevan, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015

    aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Location:
    Serbia
    #14
    Type this in the Terminal on your RMBP:

    ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

    If you get LP154WT1-SJA1 - it's LG
    If you get LSN154YL01-A01 - it's Samsung

    Btw, the retention is definitely much lower on Samsung, barely noticeable even after 10 minutes of the Retention test. But it is hardly noticeable on my iMac as well. I'm not saying I'd rather not have any, but I didn't even know I had it until I read about it here. Yours does seem a bit worse (I get mine from pure black elements so windows and menus do not create it, also it's not in the top right corner but in the middle of the right half of the screen) but I wouldn't worry about it. It shouldn't get worse with time.

    Apple officially says it's just a product of the IPS technology and expected behaviour.

    https://support.apple.com/en-is/HT202580

    "On an IPS display, when an image such as a login window is left on screen for a long period of time, you may temporarily see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image replaces it. This is referred to as "persistence," "image retention," or "ghosting." This is normal behavior for an IPS display, and the faint image will disappear over time."

    So, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
     
  15. dor macrumors member

    dor

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2015
    #15
    I have that ghosting issue as well on my 2012 iMac. Apple replaced my screen twice (once because of ghosting, other time because of something else) and I still got that issue. They say it's "normal".
     
  16. blufrog macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    #16
    IMHO IPS display technology is not as good as it is claimed. They highlight color correctness at large viewing angles, but unless you have a premium panel, the brightness variation is astronomical across the display. :rolleyes:
     
  17. accentaudio, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015

    accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    #17
    BEWARE people... This "image retention" thing is STILL very much an issue. Just google "iMac image retention" or "iMac image persistence" and you will get an eye full. I have had 2 late 2013 27" iMacs and both had these issues. I don't know what to do as I just returned the last one to the Apple Store. Do I wait until June and pray that Apple has made LG fix these issues? I am even reading that the 5k models are plagued by this and not just the 2012 and 2013 models. What is most troubling to me is that Apple is calling this "normal". This is NOT normal and has not always happened. I have had many many iMacs since they're very first release and they did not all do this. I spoke to a senior adviser today that said Apple is calling this normal for IPS displays over time... Mine have done it 20 minutes out of the box. I asked him his honest opinion and even he said that he agrees that it is not normal and should not be happening. There is nothing normal about an image burning into your screen...

    Apple refers to IR as "image persistence". To the eye this can appear very similar to permanent screen burn-in seen on old CRT or plasma displays, but it's not the same problem. Notes:

    - This doesn't happen until the computer has had a chance to warm up.
    - The after-images are most visible on a dark gray background, and are invisible against a very bright or completely black background.
    - When the problem first starts to kick in as the system warms up, blue after-images show up first, followed by green.
    - Certain white or yellow colors result in green after-images.
    - Certain blue, magenta, or white colors result in blue after-images.
    - Green after-images are far more common than blue after-images.
    - Green after-images are much more noticeable/distracting/annoying.
    - After system is warm, it takes about two minutes for an after-image to become noticeable, and it becomes strongest after about 5 minutes.
    - It takes about 20-30 minutes for a strong after-image to fade away after switching to a dark gray background.
    - Rebooting doesn't clear an after-image.
     
  18. dnoph macrumors member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    #18
    This image retention problem really makes me reconsider getting an iMac
     
  19. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    #19
    I would say this is a VERY serious issue and it is surprising to me that there aren't even more people concerned and talking about it. Every iMac that I have had 2013 model year has done this. It has done it straight out of the box too, without having hours and hours of use on it as Apple is making it sound that it takes to see the issue appear.
     
  20. WilliamG macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Location:
    Seattle
    #20
    My 2012 iMac took just under 2 years of use to develop image retention, and I used it pretty much every day for hours and hours.
     
  21. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    #21
    Then you are ummmm a lucky one? In my opinion this "non-issue" as Apple would put it should not exist at all. I wish there were a way to find out if Apple has made any revisions to the late 2013 models to address any of this...
     
  22. WilliamG macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Location:
    Seattle
    #22
    It's the same panel, so nope. IPS panels can have IR. Not all of them will have it, depending on use, but they can.
     
  23. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    #23
    Well I have had nothing but bad luck. So what do you recommend? Waiting until June with the hopes that Apple updates the entire iMac line, or even if they do refresh the iMac line are they going to have the same issues? Is this not something that they can iron out with LG and stop from happening? I have had it terribly bad right out of the box twice with 2 new 27" iMacs. Is this something that Apple seriously deems as "normal"?
     
  24. kepler20b macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    #24
    IR is not something that even OLED can fix.

    It's just part of the technology. Most screens are negligible but for some reason you keep rolling bad ones. Waiting till june is not going to fix the screen, it's an inherent issue witht he overall technology.
     
  25. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Location:
    Kansas City
    #25
    So you honestly feel that this is not something Apple is going to be able to iron out or fix? How come I never noticed this in the past with any of my old iMacs? I have in the past 10 years had over 25 different Macs. I have had Mac Pros, iMacs, MBPs MBAs, etc... Never seen any of this until the 2013 iMacs...?
     

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