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Retina MacBook Pro Pushes the Limits of its Graphics Capabilities

If you are hesitate on a RMBP

I don't want to join the debate, and I just have to say I love my RMBP2.7, it's thin and light, it's powerful, and the battery time is great as most of Apple's laptops are, and it looks great. Those are all the reasons I buy a laptop. I have no regret at all about this, the clarity is just beautiful! It's the best laptop and the best display I have ever had.

People debate about the scrolling fps on Facebook, I don't see it is that bad at all. It's nice that people really putting effort testing on these details, but I just don't think I would ever spend the time examine how many fps when I scrolling Facebook page...As long as it feels ok and doesn't affect my user experience, then I don't bother.

Also it is not like the performance is seriously weaken by the integration of Retina display. While it is not a huge leap, RetinaMBP is still better than the highest config of previous MBP on CPU and GPU tests. If you got the best config of previous MBP, this might be only a minor upgrade performance wise, but people with other MacBooks can definitely consider this if you need a performance laptop. In case you really don't want Retina because you think you'd get better performance without it, then go for the non-Retina. However, it doesn't come cheaper comparing with a Retina MBP with same spec (512SSD 2.7i7), plus you can't have stock 16G memory, and it's heavier and thicker. So I really don't see why go for a non-Retina MBP over a RMBP, at least for me. Maybe some people own the non-Retina version can put out some benchmarking between them and see the if there's a huge performance.
I haven't tested it my self but I saw the post about connecting 3 external monitors on a RMBP and run video smoothly, so I guess the video card is enough for me because I will probably only connect one 27" external monitor with this, and I assume that will be enough to run smoothly.

I bought this RMBP because I really need one performance laptop for my graphic work. I have looked into many other options besides Apple, and I think this is still the best I can get with the price. I always see people say that get a custom-built laptop with similar spec under $1000, I really want to know where I can get a laptop like that. Also always remember you buying this is because you want it to be mobile, so it has to be light, thin, and great with battery life. If the performance is as good or even better than RMBP, how about the weight, and battery life? How about the design? If there's an alternative one that matches RMBP in all those aspects, then how about the service?

For students considering between MBA and RMBP, I also own the previous MBA13", I like it a lot too, I think for students who looking for a laptop, the new MBA13" will do the job unless you are dealing with a lot of heavy graphical work.

For people considering waiting for next generation, if you have a laptop to use and it can do the job just fine, then sure just wait for next generation. It's hard to comment on this because next generation is normally always better for computers. But if you get it now, you get it now. Just go for it if you need one to use or you have the cash, or hold back if you want to save money and your current laptop is fast enough for the stuff you do.

Sorry for my shallowness on this topic, just sharing my thought.
 
Riemann Zeta said:
^^^
The NVIDIA GT650M is a pretty damn fine mobile GPU. Very competitive with AMD's mobile offerings right now with reasonable heat output. I'm not sure what kind of GPU you expect, as the only other options are desktop-grade, like the NVIDIA GTX680, or the AMD Radeon 7970M. While both are absurdly powerful, they also require massive amounts of electricity and cooling. Any laptop with a GPU like that would be 2-3" thick and 10lb.
Click to expand...

And even with those, the framerate won't be considerably high as I have demonstrated using my 5870. (31 fps scrolling facebook on my Mac Pro with 5870 which is 3.5 times more powerful than GT650M and driving an even lower resolution at 2560*1600)

So I think it's clear now that this isn't a hardware issue. It's about certain websites putting too much pressure on the CPU partly due to their bad coding and partly due to the browser engines not utilising multi cores.

So let's see the facts:

• This happens on more powerful macs with more powerful GPU's than the rMBP

• It only effects certain websites

• People shouldn't be seeing a performance drop of any severity on the new rMBP if they already know how their old mac behaves on the same websites since most macs are struggling to render those sites anyway.
 
And all those people clamoring for a retina iMac... that late 2013 timeframe given by Cook makes a lot of sense.
 
blow45 said:
The rmbp could have easily been a couple of mils thicker and allowed for a hd drive in place of the optical, that would give users the best of both worlds, ample storage for pro users and a fast boot and main file access via ssd.

What's any of that have to do with the damn floppy?:confused::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

With Thunderbolt, what's wrong with using an external when you need it? Small price to pay for the ultimate balance of power and mobility.

And what does it have to do with the damn floppy? That when Apple was the first company to do away with it, people were complaining about a major feature being lost... you know that exact same "specialty, under-featured" comment I was replying to.
 
stevelam said:
By your reasoning, the scrolling lag should be much more apparent on older machines then, but this clearly isn't the case.
Click to expand...

Except it is. That's exactly my point. It *is* apparent on other machines. My 2011 27" iMac exhibits results similar to iBug2's in that Facebook is using 100% of a CPU core while scrolling, dropping framerates down to rMBP numbers.

This is not specific to the MBPr. It's specific to any high resolution Mac using a browser incapable of utilizing multiple cores (which is all of them). It's really sad on two fronts, because Firefox has been talking about supporting multiple cores since 2009, and really, I'm surprised Safari hasn't been updated for it either.
 
techpr said:
Anyone got this??
Click to expand...

Quartz Debug. It's available for free from developer.apple.com.

It's in the graphics package of XCode which is a separate download now.

----------
Fortimir said:
Except it is. That's exactly my point. It *is* apparent on other machines. My 2011 27" iMac exhibits results similar to iBug2's in that Facebook is using 100% of a CPU core while scrolling, dropping framerates down to rMBP numbers.

This is not specific to the MBPr. It's specific to any high resolution Mac using a browser incapable of utilizing multiple cores (which is all of them). It's really sad on two fronts, because Firefox has been talking about supporting multiple cores since 2009, and really, I'm surprised Safari hasn't been updated for it either.
Click to expand...

Firefox is even slower on scrolling than Safari right now. It's practically terrible.
 
alextheukrainia said:
I just recovered my password just to post this: yes, there was noticeable lag with Lion, but it's fixed in latest DP of Mountain Lion. I was shocked when I tested rMBP at an Apple Store, so waited for my friend's to get here, and it was just as laggy as in the Apple Store. But after installing Mountain Lion DP4 and updating it with latest patches, everything is super-fast. The scrolling is smooth and as fast as you'd expect it to be. There may still be some minor issues at high res, but with the amount of progress I've seen, I am sure it's all software at this point and will be optimized quickly post-release, if not by the time ML comes out.

So don't sweat it, new purchasers, the hardware is plenty enough to power rMBP. It was just a matter of optimizing the OS. I'm getting mine as soon as a local Apple Store has one in stock.
Click to expand...

Thats what I figured (still waiting for mine :( )

I employed very simple reasoning: First, 2D performance hasn't been an issue since the 1990s, so it didn't get optimized for in any release of OS X since, maybe 2002 or so.

Second, if an iPad 3 can power a 10" retina display *smoothly* and without any issues at all, a MacBook Pro with a dedicated GPU can *surely* power a 15" one. Even at a doubled 1920x1080. No problem at all. The CPU / GPU in a MacBook Pro Retina are at least 4x as powerful as an iPads.

So ML will probably work well enough at release time, and even better with subsequent updates.

It's true that the Intel drivers in the HD4000 and also the NVidia drivers aren't in optimized for 2D - the HD4000 doesn't even officially go up that high. Apple decided to write their own drivers and optimizations and that's what we'll get to see shortly in ML.

I am not concerned in the least.

----------
iBug2 said:
And even with those, the framerate won't be considerably high as I have demonstrated using my 5870. (31 fps scrolling facebook on my Mac Pro with 5870 which is 3.5 times more powerful than GT650M and driving an even lower resolution at 2560*1600)

So I think it's clear now that this isn't a hardware issue. It's about certain websites putting too much pressure on the CPU partly due to their bad coding and partly due to the browser engines not utilising multi cores.

So let's see the facts:

• This happens on more powerful macs with more powerful GPU's than the rMBP

• It only effects certain websites

• People shouldn't be seeing a performance drop of any severity on the new rMBP if they already know how their old mac behaves on the same websites since most macs are struggling to render those sites anyway.
Click to expand...

Co-incidentally I've been having CPU related issues in my MacBook Pro and quite often it's Safari just sitting there showing Facebook.

Conclusion: Facebook sucks. What ever are they doing?
Conclusion 2: HTML5 as a platform (e.g. WebOS or ChromeOS) is just as idiotic an idea as I thought.
 
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Fortimir said:
With Thunderbolt, what's wrong with using an external when you need it? Small price to pay for the ultimate balance of power and mobility.

And what does it have to do with the damn floppy? That when Apple was the first company to do away with it, people were complaining about a major feature being lost... you know that exact same "specialty, under-featured" comment I was replying to.
Click to expand...

No one was complaining about "major features" being lost, that's why your analysis is not apt, some were complaining about their dropping it prematurely, but everyone was well aware the next storage medium was CDs wich dwarfed floppies in every way. That's not comparable to non upgradable memory, actually non upgradeable memory has nothing to do with floppies, nor custom ports for the ssd (again a poor upgreadabilty option) have anything to do with floppies. Your analogy simply isn't apt, maybe it has some resemblances to dropping e Ethernet but there again it's not really fitting or useful. Analogies are tricky things they can be used with no discretion.
 
phantasmagoria said:
SwitchResX is a great utility which will let you pick or define just about any resolution, but the non-HiDPI 1920x1200 resolution isn't a patch on the HiDPI (scaled) alternative.

I came to the rMBP from a 17" MBP so I'm using the scaled 1920x1200 res as its the same as I'm used to and also matches the native res of the 23" Cinema display that I often use my rMBP alongside. I don't have an inclination to run benchmarking tools, but I've not noticed any real-world performance issues.
Click to expand...

The way I see it, is that at a normal viewing distance on my 2009 MBP, I couldn't really see the individual pixels. As I got closer, I could though. So I was thinking that on the retina display, it could only get better even if 1920X1200 is scaled up to 2880X1800. And then it could also help GPU performance depending on what I am doing.

I will definitely need to get switchresX. I just hope that there won't be any problems trying to run it at 1920X1200 scaled up to Retina.
 
Fortimir said:
This is not specific to the MBPr. It's specific to any high resolution Mac using a browser incapable of utilizing multiple cores (which is all of them). It's really sad on two fronts, because Firefox has been talking about supporting multiple cores since 2009, and really, I'm surprised Safari hasn't been updated for it either.
Click to expand...

Yeah they have been "talking" about it, and researching it, but it is incredibly difficult to do. People say "come-on it's 2012 already", but so far no one has managed to figure out how to do this in a way that doesn't introduce more problems than it is worth. I very much doubt Apple isn't trying to figure out a way to do it since they obviously want to push everything to Retina. At the end of the day, the answer may just reside in waiting for Intel to make CPUs capable of handling all this data on a single-core. Maybe Haswell will be that solution, maybe not.
 
airsks said:
I don't want to join the debate, and I just have to say I love my RMBP2.7, it's thin and light, it's powerful, and the battery time is great as most of Apple's laptops are, and it looks great. Those are all the reasons I buy a laptop. I have no regret at all about this, the clarity is just beautiful! It's the best laptop and the best display I have ever had.

People debate about the scrolling fps on Facebook, I don't see it is that bad at all. It's nice that people really putting effort testing on these details, but I just don't think I would ever spend the time examine how many fps when I scrolling Facebook page...As long as it feels ok and doesn't affect my user experience, then I don't bother.

Also it is not like the performance is seriously weaken by the integration of Retina display. While it is not a huge leap, RetinaMBP is still better than the highest config of previous MBP on CPU and GPU tests. If you got the best config of previous MBP, this might be only a minor upgrade performance wise, but people with other MacBooks can definitely consider this if you need a performance laptop. In case you really don't want Retina because you think you'd get better performance without it, then go for the non-Retina. However, it doesn't come cheaper comparing with a Retina MBP with same spec (512SSD 2.7i7), plus you can't have stock 16G memory, and it's heavier and thicker. So I really don't see why go for a non-Retina MBP over a RMBP, at least for me. Maybe some people own the non-Retina version can put out some benchmarking between them and see the if there's a huge performance.
I haven't tested it my self but I saw the post about connecting 3 external monitors on a RMBP and run video smoothly, so I guess the video card is enough for me because I will probably only connect one 27" external monitor with this, and I assume that will be enough to run smoothly.

I bought this RMBP because I really need one performance laptop for my graphic work. I have looked into many other options besides Apple, and I think this is still the best I can get with the price. I always see people say that get a custom-built laptop with similar spec under $1000, I really want to know where I can get a laptop like that. Also always remember you buying this is because you want it to be mobile, so it has to be light, thin, and great with battery life. If the performance is as good or even better than RMBP, how about the weight, and battery life? How about the design? If there's an alternative one that matches RMBP in all those aspects, then how about the service?

For students considering between MBA and RMBP, I also own the previous MBA13", I like it a lot too, I think for students who looking for a laptop, the new MBA13" will do the job unless you are dealing with a lot of heavy graphical work.

For people considering waiting for next generation, if you have a laptop to use and it can do the job just fine, then sure just wait for next generation. It's hard to comment on this because next generation is normally always better for computers. But if you get it now, you get it now. Just go for it if you need one to use or you have the cash, or hold back if you want to save money and your current laptop is fast enough for the stuff you do.

Sorry for my shallowness on this topic, just sharing my thought.
Click to expand...

i'd really like to know what graphic applications you're currently using with your RMBP.

----------
orthorim said:
Thats what I figured (still waiting for mine :( )

I employed very simple reasoning: First, 2D performance hasn't been an issue since the 1990s, so it didn't get optimized for in any release of OS X since, maybe 2002 or so.

Second, if an iPad 3 can power a 10" retina display *smoothly* and without any issues at all, a MacBook Pro with a dedicated GPU can *surely* power a 15" one. Even at a doubled 1920x1080. No problem at all. The CPU / GPU in a MacBook Pro Retina are at least 4x as powerful as an iPads.

So ML will probably work well enough at release time, and even better with subsequent updates.

It's true that the Intel drivers in the HD4000 and also the NVidia drivers aren't in optimized for 2D - the HD4000 doesn't even officially go up that high. Apple decided to write their own drivers and optimizations and that's what we'll get to see shortly in ML.

I am not concerned in the least.

----------



Co-incidentally I've been having CPU related issues in my MacBook Pro and quite often it's Safari just sitting there showing Facebook.

Conclusion: Facebook sucks. What ever are they doing?
Conclusion 2: HTML5 as a platform (e.g. WebOS or ChromeOS) is just as idiotic an idea as I thought.
Click to expand...

wrong. the new ipad, despite its beefed up gpu setup, is actually very slightly slower than the ipad 2, purely because of the power needed to run the retina display.

secondly, html5 as a platform is idiotic? you realize thats pretty much where all apps will end up and how most native apps are actually packaged right?
 
I have a late 2011 MBP hi-res, and I can't see any pixels from a normal viewing distance. So it's retina for me. I don't need to stick my nose 2 cms. from the screen to experience retina in all it's glory ;)

Atleast not till the hardware catches up, in a couple of years. You can put jet-fuel (referring to software) in your car if you wish, but if you have a crap engine... well you get the idea.

Love Apple to death. But hey, I need both functionality + aesthetics.
 
iBug2 said:
But then again why would you do that? You are already letting go the DVD for it, so why not simply buy Retina?
Click to expand...
Twice as fast disk IO in that configuration: http://blog.macsales.com/14263-owc-ssds-make-2012-mbp-15-a-speed-champ

Plus, the ability to upgrade to dual 512's in the future when their cost comes down. Not to mention not having to carry around an ethernet dongle (I need that at my client's office).

I'm really on the fence about it though - I sure wish they offered that screen on a "fat" MacBookPro.
 
Last edited:
tomtom2234 said:
Hmm... This is a little bit frustrating. I NEED a laptop for college this year (current is a 08 MBP on its last legs). I'm most likely going for the MBPR simply because it's barely cheaper to get the MBP with the specs I want. Frustrating knowing Apple decided to ship with hardware that isn't ready./sigh.
Click to expand...

I've got a MBP C2D from 2006. You don't NEED anything, just take better care of your stuff.
 
tomtom2234 said:
I NEED a dedicated GPU also. I'm not sure. I may try using my current laptop or maybe my ipad 3 and just bring my desktop to college. I really wanted to leave it at home though.
Click to expand...

So you have a laptop, a desktop, and an iPad, but you NEED a new laptop? You have a very interesting definition of need.
 
Burnsey said:
I've got a MBP C2D from 2006. You don't NEED anything, just take better care of your stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya'. I think the definition of "on it's last legs" is different than I'm used it. I have the same model 17" from Jan 2007, it's been back and forth to work in my backpack every day, traveled probably 10,000 miles, had the hard drive upgraded at least 5 or 6 times, 2 or 3 motherboard replacements, keyboard replacement, and it's been thrown from a car hood onto pavement. "Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin!" (and no, the motherboard replacements were not from the car accident, they happened long beforehand - thank God for AppleCare)

The only reason I am planning to upgrade soon is performance (and because my model will not work with future OS X updates)
 
eric_n_dfw said:
Not if you install your own: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007RARHSO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227793&Tpk=OCZ 512GB Vertex 4
Click to expand...

Exactly and with much better ssds than apple, that's why it's so infuriating the **** they are pulling with custom on board ssd and soldered ram, they want you to pay the 50% apple tax no matter what. This to me is shameless. That they want to control storage a la iPods and iPads on a computer so there is no avenue for the user to upgrade themselves. It's the same thing they did with the iMacs and the custom temperature sensor that made a 3rd party hd installation virtually impossible. In 2 years btw they have changed ports for their flash 3 times for the airs and now the pro, so even their port won't be standardised to have an after market solution.

Apple want us to buy there memory so they can make even more profit and their flash.

And someone said its like dropping the floppy, yeah that's right it's like dropping the floppy...:rolleyes: we are professional whiners, it's our problem cause we like to bitch, when the rest of the industry is operating at 10 or less % margins apple want to sell at 50 and 60% and bar any upgreadabilty options they can afford to the user...
 
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I think the deal breaker for me with the Retina was that it still did not address the biggest, most important problem in the Macbook Pro line. Razor blade palm rests.
 
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