Retina MBP a true gaming platform

[bill-p]

Do you get these speeds when you overclock it or when you use it at stock?
I am more and more impressed by this and i am looking forward to my retina´s arrival!!

I ran all those at stock.

Since I'm already getting good performance, I don't find it necessary to overclock.

 

[macguy360]

By the way, I can also see why Apple decided to use the 650m and overclock from a price standpoint.

They probably were able to lower their cost per GPU by $10 or so which even if they just sold 1 million retina macbook pros would equate to a savings of 10 million dollars.

They looked at the performance differences of the 650m and 660gtx and realized they could just overclock the 650m and get better performance than a stock 660.

I just wish they would have publicized this decision. I am sure there are countless other people who like myself were hesitent on getting the retina mbp because of the fact that it contains a 650m instead of a higher end card.

 

[imperialnavy]

The display quality at 1440x900 would be better on the cMBP than the rMBP because that is its native resolution.

My wife has got a windows laptop with a 1440x900 display and there is a vast difference between that and the rMBP bootcamp at 1440x900. Hers looks clear and the retina looks smudged and fuzzy as to be expected.

Ill install skyrim on hers later and compare the 2 side by side at 1440x900 (I know hers is not a cMBP but its the best i can do - lol)

That would be nice! I really want to know how it looks in comparison..

 

[terraphantm]

The display quality at 1440x900 would be better on the cMBP than the rMBP because that is its native resolution.

My wife has got a windows laptop with a 1440x900 display and there is a vast difference between that and the rMBP bootcamp at 1440x900. Hers looks clear and the retina looks smudged and fuzzy as to be expected.

Ill install skyrim on hers later and compare the 2 side by side at 1440x900 (I know hers is not a cMBP but its the best i can do - lol)

That's mostly because the scaling isn't done quite right. If the OS used nearest neighbor scaling for 1440x900, it'd look about the same as a native 1440x900 display. Main difference will be a lesser screen door effect since the borders between pixels is smaller

 

[BB.King]

Which overclocking program do you use? MSI Afterburner? You could try to use Nvidia Inspector for better results..

I'm not using any overclocking tools, just GPU-Z to monitor the 650m. The 650m in my retina mostly operate at 2,000MHz when gaming, and only very rarely jump to 2,500MHz. According the GPU-Z, the maximum speed of the 650m is clocked to 900/2,500MHz, so I'm guessing 650m in my retina is not capable of the maximum memory speed as overclocked by Apple. I guess I could ask for a replacement since it fall to meet the specification.

 

[Dyno-Mike]

That would be nice! I really want to know how it looks in comparison..

Ive tried the comparison and to be honest during the game, apart from the colours and viewing angles there is not a huge difference in quality between hers and the retina @1440x900

I think its because the screen isnt stationary and there is always movement during games.

I would post a picture but you cant see a proper comparison unless you view it with your own eyes.

 

[High Five Ghost]

The only game I'll ever play on a computer is WoW, which is not too demanding.

I can run it at full resolution, full visuals and it runs like a champ, gotta have it plugged in to run at Ultra unless I change my power saving settings.

But at good settings, it runs fine.

Glad that this Mac will take me into the future...

 

[bill-p]

After the latest drivers update, I can now get 2880 x 1800 in more games...

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit for one. It looks fantastic!

Skyrim has also gotten a performance boost. 1920 x 1200 is ultra smooth now. So much that I had to enable either FXAA or 4xAA to make the game "behave". Turning on 4xAA or 2xAA causes a weird micro stutter in some areas, though.

 

[imperialnavy]

After the latest drivers update, I can now get 2880 x 1800 in more games...

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit for one. It looks fantastic!

Skyrim has also gotten a performance boost. 1920 x 1200 is ultra smooth now. So much that I had to enable either FXAA or 4xAA to make the game "behave". Turning on 4xAA or 2xAA causes a weird micro stutter in some areas, though.

Can you also test Skyrim with 2880X1800 and no AA? I am curious if it improved with the new driver.
The new driver is 306.23 and the driver you once used to test some games with was 306.02, right?

A nice location for FPS tests is the area around Riften (due to a lot of trees), especially near Heartwood Mill..
That Micro Stutter is a known problem in Skyrim, usually you can solve it by capping your fps to something like 35-40.. (even then if you dont actually get to 60)

 

[bill-p]

306.23 is the same as 306.02. No performance difference.

2880 x 1800 is still somewhat playable, but the micro stutter gets a lot worse, and some scenes cause a lot of slow down.

If I drop shadow resolution down to Medium, it's quite bearable, but still not as smooth or effortless as 1920 x 1200 with 4xAA. I suspect that at 2880 x 1800, rMBP runs into VRAM limitation for Skyrim.

Edit: I created a custom resolution of 2560 x 1600 and set Skyrim to that instead.

Well, what do I know? The game runs A LOT faster than 2880 x 1800. 2560 x 1600 at Ultra settings oscillates between 40 - 60fps depending on area, which is very playable to me. Even the most intensive areas don't dip lower than 24fps.

So it seems 2880 x 1800 is too much for 1GB of VRAM after all. The GPU seems more than capable of pulling its weight.

 

[Newfiejudd]

Does anyone know how to enable Nvidia Inspector to push past the 1035 limit on the GPU. I have asked in a previous threat but got no replies.

 

[MiG123]

so much for the 'overclocked' 900mhz speeds which are only achievable under optimal thermal conditions and minimal cpu usage. Most of the time the gpu clocks itself at 725mhz, or worse still, erratically jumps between 725 and 900 which causes stuttering and banding in games.

Tot it was a one off defect so got my rMBP exchanged twice. Sad to say, exact same problem materialises in all 3 rMBPs I've used.

Issue well documented in my other thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1432352/

So hopeless I've not bothered even following up to the issue anymore...

 

[ninja2000]

so much for the 'overclocked' 900mhz speeds which are only achievable under optimal thermal conditions and minimal cpu usage. Most of the time the gpu clocks itself at 725mhz, or worse still, erratically jumps between 725 and 900 which causes stuttering and banding in games.

Tot it was a one off defect so got my rMBP exchanged twice. Sad to say, exact same problem materialises in all 3 rMBPs I've used.

Issue well documented in my other thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1432352/

So hopeless I've not bothered even following up to the issue anymore...

I dont understand how you are getting such poor performance! I am guessing you have turbo boost enabled?
I disable turbo boost with windows advanced power settings and never get any throttling on my 650m

I tested on the default bootcamp driver without using nvidia inspector and my gpu stays at 900/2000 the whole time (no idea why I never get 2500 but it is not memory bandwidth limited anyway so I am not bothered).
I tested by playing a few hours of BF3, CS GO and Shogun 2, not once did the clocks drop.
I then set it to my NI overclock of 1100/2500 and repeated the test and got same results.
I have tried both using default fan profile and lubbos and neither makes a difference for me except keeping the WASD keys cooler on Lubbos

 

[Dyno-Mike]

I dont understand how you are getting such poor performance! I am guessing you have turbo boost enabled?
I disable turbo boost with windows advanced power settings and never get any throttling on my 650m

Same here. Disabling Turbo boost stops the stuttering and my GPU never underclocks itself. Always stays at 900mhz. When Turbo is enabled its choppy and its actually the CPU causing the issues. (according to throttlestop)


I dont think there is enough power in the supply to run the laptop GPU and CPU at full without throttling itself down.

Run Furmark and throttlestop bench at the same time and look at what the CPU multiplier drops to...

 

[imperialnavy]

306.23 is the same as 306.02. No performance difference.

2880 x 1800 is still somewhat playable, but the micro stutter gets a lot worse, and some scenes cause a lot of slow down.

If I drop shadow resolution down to Medium, it's quite bearable, but still not as smooth or effortless as 1920 x 1200 with 4xAA. I suspect that at 2880 x 1800, rMBP runs into VRAM limitation for Skyrim.

Edit: I created a custom resolution of 2560 x 1600 and set Skyrim to that instead.

Well, what do I know? The game runs A LOT faster than 2880 x 1800. 2560 x 1600 at Ultra settings oscillates between 40 - 60fps depending on area, which is very playable to me. Even the most intensive areas don't dip lower than 24fps.

So it seems 2880 x 1800 is too much for 1GB of VRAM after all. The GPU seems more than capable of pulling its weight.

Are you also using some ENB mod with these tests?
I heard that they dont affect performance that much on Nvidia GPUs (At least nowhere near -15fps like on my AMD card) ...
I would love to see how much you get, using the Wilds ENB mod for instance in combination with either your custom or the native resolution.

 

[imperialnavy]

I dont understand how you are getting such poor performance! I am guessing you have turbo boost enabled?
I disable turbo boost with windows advanced power settings and never get any throttling on my 650m

I tested on the default bootcamp driver without using nvidia inspector and my gpu stays at 900/2000 the whole time (no idea why I never get 2500 but it is not memory bandwidth limited anyway so I am not bothered).
I tested by playing a few hours of BF3, CS GO and Shogun 2, not once did the clocks drop.
I then set it to my NI overclock of 1100/2500 and repeated the test and got same results.
I have tried both using default fan profile and lubbos and neither makes a difference for me except keeping the WASD keys cooler on Lubbos

Which rMBP do you have? Base model or high end model? Now i might be way off with this assumption, but is it maybe possible that the memory clock speed varies depending on the model? To me there is just no other explanation for the difference in clock speed, if basically everything is supposed to be the same...

 

[ninja2000]

Which rMBP do you have? Base model or high end model? Now i might be way off with this assumption, but is it maybe possible that the memory clock speed varies depending on the model? To me there is just no other explanation for the difference in clock speed, if basically everything is supposed to be the same...

I just have the base retina. It looks like it might be temp based. I get 2500mhz for a minute then it drops to 2000. Its not a problem as:
1. I can set the clocks myself with Nvidia Inspector
2. I haven't noticed any fps gains going from 2000 to 2500 (now if it was a gddr3 card it would be a different story)

 

[MiG123]

Same here. Disabling Turbo boost stops the stuttering and my GPU never underclocks itself. Always stays at 900mhz. When Turbo is enabled its choppy and its actually the CPU causing the issues. (according to throttlestop)


I dont think there is enough power in the supply to run the laptop GPU and CPU at full without throttling itself down.

Run Furmark and throttlestop bench at the same time and look at what the CPU multiplier drops to...

I've definitely tried this disabling turbo boost workaround but to no avail. Realised that tat this at best merely delays the GPU throttling since the CPU itself in my case throttles to e bare minium 1.2ghz regardless of whether turbo boost is enabled anot.

While all this might look temperature related on the surface, fact is my macbooks remain relatively cool throughout the whole process, with temperatures tat don't even breach 80deg for both CPU and GPU. Which leads me to think this is power related throttling...

 

[imperialnavy]

I've definitely tried this disabling turbo boost workaround but to no avail. Realised that tat this at best merely delays the GPU throttling since the CPU itself in my case throttles to e bare minium 1.2ghz regardless of whether turbo boost is enabled anot.

While all this might look temperature related on the surface, fact is my macbooks remain relatively cool throughout the whole process, with temperatures tat don't even breach 80deg for both CPU and GPU. Which leads me to think this is power related throttling...

Do you use the base model? I dont understand why you get power related throttling, while many others can keep clocking higher...

 

[bill-p]

Are you also using some ENB mod with these tests?
I heard that they dont affect performance that much on Nvidia GPUs (At least nowhere near -15fps like on my AMD card) ...
I would love to see how much you get, using the Wilds ENB mod for instance in combination with either your custom or the native resolution.

No, I'm not using ENB. ENB makes everything way too dark, and by default, Skyrim already looks somewhat oversaturated with the Retina Display.

But the other reason is actually that I can only use ENB at 1920 x 1200 without AA. If I disable DoF, performance would go up, but I still don't like how dark it is.

 

[imperialnavy]

No, I'm not using ENB. ENB makes everything way too dark, and by default, Skyrim already looks somewhat oversaturated with the Retina Display.

But the other reason is actually that I can only use ENB at 1920 x 1200 without AA. If I disable DoF, performance would go up, but I still don't like how dark it is.

So if you used every ENB feature, performance would basically be killed at a resolution higher than 1920x1200? (You did once mention that you used the ENB mod at 2880x1800 while getting around 24-30 fps)

 

[bill-p]

So if you used every ENB feature, performance would basically be killed at a resolution higher than 1920x1200? (You did once mention that you used the ENB mod at 2880x1800 while getting around 24-30 fps)

Yeah. 24-30 fps is actually not very playable in Skyrim for me. It has to be higher than that or some combat scenes can get a lot more hectic (like dragon battles).

I can only tolerate around 40fps and higher.

 

[imperialnavy]

Yeah. 24-30 fps is actually not very playable in Skyrim for me. It has to be higher than that or some combat scenes can get a lot more hectic (like dragon battles).

I can only tolerate around 40fps and higher.

I used to get around 10-15 fps with ENB enabled, so an improvement to 24-30 is pretty good. When i get my Retina, i will either overclock the system so it can manage both ENB and native resolution or i will just lower the resolution to that custom resolution of yours, as that seems to give better fps for no apparent loss in quality.

 

[imperialnavy]

306.23 is the same as 306.02. No performance difference.

2880 x 1800 is still somewhat playable, but the micro stutter gets a lot worse, and some scenes cause a lot of slow down.

If I drop shadow resolution down to Medium, it's quite bearable, but still not as smooth or effortless as 1920 x 1200 with 4xAA. I suspect that at 2880 x 1800, rMBP runs into VRAM limitation for Skyrim.

Edit: I created a custom resolution of 2560 x 1600 and set Skyrim to that instead.

Well, what do I know? The game runs A LOT faster than 2880 x 1800. 2560 x 1600 at Ultra settings oscillates between 40 - 60fps depending on area, which is very playable to me. Even the most intensive areas don't dip lower than 24fps.

So it seems 2880 x 1800 is too much for 1GB of VRAM after all. The GPU seems more than capable of pulling its weight.

I believe that you are getting these framerates, really i do. I got the same Retina Macbook like you do, but when i try to run Skyrim with same settings, i get nowhere near 40fps, not even indoors. If i go to said forest near Riften i am getting like 10fps....and no, i am not running it on power saving mode and i even overclocked it slightly...
What did you do exactly? Can you maybe send me your .ini ? Nvidia settings too maybe?

 

[bill-p]

I did not change anything. Really. I ran everything stock.

But here is a big question: did you install Windows 7 32-bit or 64-bit?

There is a big difference between those 2 in terms of performance... especially with Skyrim.

Edit: never mind, my own rMBP was "afflicted" with the same problem after the 10.8.2 update. Reset your SMC a few times and then try again.