iPhone 12 Pro Returning a brand new iPhone

[Ketsjap]

Many on this forum say that they tried out their new iPhone, didn't like it, and returned it.

I'm fascinated by this. Here in Europe - in my country, anyway - you don't get to buy a new phone and then return it if you don't like it, after using it for a day. You bought it, you used it, it's yours.

Is this an American thing, this ease of trying out a phone and returning it for another one? No questions asked? Is that something common in the US? Are there laws in place that make this possible, or something?

And what happens to these phones? Are they sold again as new? Are they sold as second hand phones?

I'm very curious

 

[Shadowbech]

Yes here in US you do have 14 day return period just about any product. Not just apple. Thats what is nice about it. Dont like it after trying it out then return it and get something else.

As for the returns for Apple, they do not repackage to be resold as new. They all go back and turned into a certified refurbs or used as replacement unit for warranty purposes

 

[Harthag]

Many on this forum say that they tried out their new iPhone, didn't like it, and returned it.

I'm fascinated by this. Here in Europe - in my country, in any case - you don't get to buy a new phone and then return it if you don't like it, after using it for a day. You bought it, you used it, it's yours.

Is this an American thing, this ease of trying out a phone and returning it for another one? No questions asked? Is that something common in the US? Are there laws in place that make this possible, or something?

And what happens to these phones? Are they sold again as new? Are they sold as second hand phones?

I'm very curious

I think this year is an odd year due to Covid-19. I am not setting foot inside any retail store. I ordered the 12 Pro, Pro Max, and Mini to compare them all. Keeping the Pro and Mini, returning the Max as it is just too big. Return policies no questions asked are pretty common here in the U.S. The returned iPhones are turned into certified refurbs and resold.

 

[ericwn]

Many European countries also have laws in place that allows for return of online orders within a certain timeframe too. This might not necessarily apply to carriers but if you buy online directly from Apple the same return policy will apply to most EU countries.

 

[Ketsjap]

I think this year is an odd year due to Covid-19. I am not setting foot inside any retail store. I ordered the 12 Pro, Pro Max, and Mini to compare them all. Keeping the Pro and Mini, returning the Max as it is just too big. Return policies no questions asked are pretty common here in the U.S. The returned iPhones are turned into certified refurbs and resold.

So you buy three phones, choose one, send the others back and you get a full refund?

My gosh, that's so strange. I'd say something about how ecological this is, but if they are being sold as refurbs, there is no real environmental impact, I guess.

But you do have tremendous value destruction for all these companies though. It must cost Apple a fortune to refund all of these try-outs, just to sell them once more but at a lower price.

 

[puggles]

So you buy three phones, choose one, send the others back and you get a full refund?

My gosh, that's so strange. I'd say something about how ecological this is, but if they are being sold as refurbs, there is no real environmental impact, I guess.

But you do have tremendous value destruction for all these companies though. It must cost Apple a fortune to refund all of these try-outs, just to sell them once more but at a lower price.

It barely costs Apple anything. They need replacements for Applecare+ claims anyway.

 

[SisterBlue22]

Many on this forum say that they tried out their new iPhone, didn't like it, and returned it.

I'm fascinated by this. Here in Europe - in my country, anyway - you don't get to buy a new phone and then return it if you don't like it, after using it for a day. You bought it, you used it, it's yours.

Is this an American thing, this ease of trying out a phone and returning it for another one? No questions asked? Is that something common in the US? Are there laws in place that make this possible, or something?

And what happens to these phones? Are they sold again as new? Are they sold as second hand phones?

I'm very curious

In your country, what are the laws around returning a faulty product? How about other types of products...like, if you were to buy a sweater at a store, and realize when you get home that it doesn't fit quite right - could you return it?

 

[SisterBlue22]

So you buy three phones, choose one, send the others back and you get a full refund?

From Apple directly, yes, but I know some of the carriers, such as AT&T, will charge a restocking fee, usually something like 10%, for a return that's not due to a defect. This is to discourage the very scenario you describe. Some retailers are far more amenable to returns than others.

 

[Ketsjap]

In your country, what are the laws around returning a faulty product? How about other types of products...like, if you were to buy a sweater at a store, and realize when you get home that it doesn't fit quite right - could you return it?

It all depends on the goodwill of the merchant. Most of the time they will off course exchange the wrong sized sweater for another one. But it is - as far as I'm aware - not a right you have as a customer.

The situation is different when a product is faulty - then there are laws about warranty etc. and they have to offer you a product that's not faulty (or repair the faulty one at their cost).

But to trade in a product you bought, and you just don't really like? That's all in the hands of the merchants. As a customer you cannot demand anything. You can only ask nicely. And if they know you just bought something to try it out, there's very little chance they'll agree to a refund.

That being said, every time I visit the USA I'm impressed about how customer-friendly businesses in the US are. In the EU it's quite often the opposite. It's as if I should be glad that I'm allowed to shop in their store.. A huge difference.

 

[5105973]

So you buy three phones, choose one, send the others back and you get a full refund?

My gosh, that's so strange. I'd say something about how ecological this is, but if they are being sold as refurbs, there is no real environmental impact, I guess.

But you do have tremendous value destruction for all these companies though. It must cost Apple a fortune to refund all of these try-outs, just to sell them once more but at a lower price.

So far I’ve had the 12 Pro, 12, and my 12 mini is coming today and I have a 12 Pro Max on order. I’m absolutely appalled that I’ve gone through this many phones, but it’s a direct consequence of not being able to go to the store and try these phones out directly. I suffer from sensitivity to the pulse width modulation used to dim OLED displays so I just can’t know if my vision and migraine condition will be compatible with the displays until I get to spend time with them. Usually I can do that during visits to the store.

Additionally, these are new models with new dimensions and weights and weight distributions that can impact ergonomics. Again, in-store handling would have been helpful in ruling out a bad fit.

And I must say, if Apple were truly interested in reducing the number of returns, they could have lifted the embargo on reviews and first impression videos well in advance of opening Pre Orders.

Instead, they have a heavily publicized forecast that supplies will be limited. Many Apple customers have been subjected to long waits for Apple products before. That creates the drive to preorder and secure a chance at the product even while you remain unsure about it.

Apple has access to marketing data and surely employs someone with sufficient brainpower to understand the situations they’re creating with their practices. So part of this is on them.

Yes I do shudder at the wastefulness of it all and my part in it. No I don’t HAVE to upgrade as often as I do, but I have only a few years left before I’m an empty nester. And my pets have a finite amount of time with me. My own time, at my age, is keenly felt to be finite and to be treasured. So I unfortunately do value even the most incremental of camera upgrades on these phones. I’ve tried keeping regular cameras handy but nothing beats the ease of my iPhone for preserving and sharing family moments. And so I’m taking these extraordinary steps in hopes of finding a 12 that will be a good fit for me going forward.

I’m not happy about this. But this has been a strange year and one that I hope proves to be an isolated anomaly in terms of this sort of use of Apple’s return policy.

 

[Ketsjap]

So far I’ve had the 12 Pro, 12, and my 12 mini is coming today and I have a 12 Pro Max on order. I’m absolutely appalled that I’ve gone through this many phones, but it’s a direct consequence of not being able to go to the store and try these phones out directly. I suffer from sensitivity to the pulse width modulation used to dim OLED displays so I just can’t know if my vision and migraine condition will be compatible with the displays until I get to spend time with them. Usually I can do that during visits to the store.

Additionally, these are new models with new dimensions and weights and weight distributions that can impact ergonomics. Again, in-store handling would have been helpful in ruling out a bad fit.

And I must say, if Apple were truly interested in reducing the number of returns, they could have lifted the embargo on reviews and first impression videos well in advance of opening Pre Orders.

Instead, they have a heavily publicized forecast that supplies will be limited. Many Apple customers have been subjected to long waits for Apple products before. That creates the drive to preorder and secure a chance at the product even while you remain unsure about it.

Apple has access to marketing data and surely employs someone with sufficient brainpower to understand the situations they’re creating with their practices. So part of this is on them.

Yes I do shudder at the wastefulness of it all and my part in it. No I don’t HAVE to upgrade as often as I do, but I have only a few years left before I’m an empty nester. And my pets have a finite amount of time with me. My own time, at my age, is keenly felt to be finite and to be treasured. So I unfortunately do value even the most incremental of camera upgrades on these phones. I’ve tried keeping regular cameras handy but nothing beats the ease of my iPhone for preserving and sharing family moments. And so I’m taking these extraordinary steps in hopes of finding a 12 that will be a good fit for me going forward.

I’m not happy about this. But this has been a strange year and one that I hope proves to be an isolated anomaly in terms of this sort of use of Apple’s return policy.

I'm not judging you in any way, ma'am. Your reasons are perfectly valid, and even if they weren't, you wouldn't have to explain yourself to me, or to no one, for that matter.

Please do enjoy your new phone. I hope you find one that suits you well.

 

[5105973]

I'm not judging you in any way, ma'am. Your reasons are perfectly valid, and even if they weren't, you wouldn't have to explain yourself to me, or to no one, for that matter.

Please do enjoy your new phone. I hope you find one that suits you well.

Oh I know you’re not judging. Your curiosity about the situation is perfectly valid and it’s an interesting discussion to have. I’ve noted this year there seems an unprecedented number of posts about returns, too.

I am frustrated that I can’t really see how I could have done anything differently, and I can see how Apple could have (regarding review embargoes) and didn’t. It does seem terribly wasteful to send a non defective product back to be consigned to the refurb pile.

 

[Harthag]

So you buy three phones, choose one, send the others back and you get a full refund?

My gosh, that's so strange. I'd say something about how ecological this is, but if they are being sold as refurbs, there is no real environmental impact, I guess.

But you do have tremendous value destruction for all these companies though. It must cost Apple a fortune to refund all of these try-outs, just to sell them once more but at a lower price.

Did you not read my full post? I am keeping the 12 Pro AND the 12 Mini. I am taking a medication and am immuno-suppressed at the moment. As I said, no way am I setting foot inside a retail store. How else am I supposed to see if the 12 Pro Max is too large for me? I previously had the 11 Pro Max and the 12 Max just feels so much bigger to me, it is unwieldly.

 

[eyoungren]

It all depends on the goodwill of the merchant.

And that is the same here. Any business can refuse to accept a return for any reason.

Now if the item is defective, then that is a different matter. There are consumer protection laws that cover this. Most merchants act as a third party in this case between you and the manufacturer. They will accept your defective return, give you a new product and then submit a claim to the manufacturer.

But most businesses in the US accept returns even if the only reason is that you didn't like it. That said, it wasn't always this way. Back in the 70s when I was born and into the early 90s you often had to have a receipt and there had to be something wrong with the product.

Now, most businesses will accept returns without a receipt even. But, there are still return policies you have to meet - although they are very lenient. For instance, if you return a lot of stuff frequently at Walmart, they may blacklist you. Because, generally it's scammers that do this. The average person makes very few returns.

Software and electronics tend to have a 14 day return period. Other products can be up to 30 or even 45 days. Some product returns can be restricted based on the time of year. For instance, if you buy a TV before the Super Bowl you may be told that the sale is final - no returns. That's because people will go out and buy large screen TVs for one purpose (the Super Bowl) then return the device the next day. Business does lose money that way (they can't sell the TV as new now) so they restrict returns.

But most of the time, business wants your money, so they make returns easy and don't ask questions. It all just depends on the retailer, the product and possibly the time of year.

 

[maka344]

Same in the UK. Anything purchased online by law can be returned but has to be in new condition. You can’t crack the screen and ask for a full refund.

We also benefit from Christmas extensions. You buy something now from Apple and have until 8th Jan to return it.

I ordered two 12 Pro Max’s because I was unsure on colours. UPS collected the one I didn’t want today - totally free of change, the money will be back in my account next week.

 

[Ketsjap]

Did you not read my full post? I am keeping the 12 Pro AND the 12 Mini. I am taking a medication and am immuno-suppressed at the moment. As I said, no way am I setting foot inside a retail store. How else am I supposed to see if the 12 Pro Max is too large for me? I previously had the 11 Pro Max and the 12 Max just feels so much bigger to me, it is unwieldly.

I'm sorry, I misread your post.

In my country you cannot even go to a retail store. They are all closed. Government-imposed lockdown due to covid. So I ordered a Pro Max without having seen it irl, and without the possibility of exchanging it for another model. O well. We'll see.

 

[Ketsjap]

And that is the same here. Any business can refuse to accept a return for any reason.

Now if the item is defective, then that is a different matter. There are consumer protection laws that cover this. Most merchants act as a third party in this case between you and the manufacturer. They will accept your defective return, give you a new product and then submit a claim to the manufacturer.

But most businesses in the US accept returns even if the only reason is that you didn't like it. That said, it wasn't always this way. Back in the 70s when I was born and into the early 90s you often had to have a receipt and there had to be something wrong with the product.

Now, most businesses will accept returns without a receipt even. But, there are still return policies you have to meet - although they are very lenient. For instance, if you return a lot of stuff frequently at Walmart, they may blacklist you. Because, generally it's scammers that do this. The average person makes very few returns.

Software and electronics tend to have a 14 day return period. Other products can be up to 30 or even 45 days. Some product returns can be restricted based on the time of year. For instance, if you buy a TV before the Super Bowl you may be told that the sale is final - no returns. That's because people will go out and buy large screen TVs for one purpose (the Super Bowl) then return the device the next day. Business does lose money that way (they can't sell the TV as new now) so they restrict returns.

But most of the time, business wants your money, so they make returns easy and don't ask questions. It all just depends on the retailer, the product and possibly the time of year.

That is so interesting! Thanks for the explanation!

 

[igroeg]

I feel you OP, you're reading my mind.

I'm going to focus on electronics only, since for other types of products, retailers seem to be a lot more lenient.

I live in a European country where you can't really return any electronics, unless they have some sort of a manufacturing defect or one occurs eventually while under warranty. You can't return something just because you don't like it, even if you just unboxed and used it for 5 hours, without any wear and tear. It's a sad state of affairs, really. IF you purchased something online, the retailer will (maybe) make an exception. It doesn't matter that there are CP laws in place, unfortunately. Most likely you're going to have to fight for it (call management, etc.)

For example, we have no Apple Stores here, so I purchase all of my Apple products from "Premium Resellers" or "Authorized Distributors". Around 3 weeks ago I bought a pair of AirPods Pro, which I couldn't even try beforehand.

Turns out the AirPods Pro are extremely uncomfortable for my ears. I even managed to injure my left ear a bit. Guess what.. I've put them up for sale on an eBay-like local marketplace. I can't return them because they don't fit me or hurt my ears. At least I can sell them, albeit losing a decent chunk from the SRP.

As far as Apple goes, it's not necessarily a US thing. I believe wherever there's an Apple Store, you can return anything you bought within 14 days (double that around Christmas). I've personally done this in England and France, no issues.

And now, my current psychosis - purchasing the iPhone 12 Pro Max. With the issues I've seen posted in this forum about some 12 series units (crappy displays, chipped stainless steel, etc.), tell me, how do I convince myself to pull the plug on a EUR 1,250+ mobile phone, having in mind that short of an "in-your-face" issue with it, the retailer will tell me to take a hike? It's a disaster.

 

[cocoro]

I am wondering which EU countries that don't have this law? UK is in EU (at this moment), we have the same return policy for every product. I think the customer should have the right to buy products and return it if they change their mind.

 

[BreakingKayfabe]

OP, you’d be even more fascinated to know that if I bought 10 different iPhones on November 10th I can return all 10 iPhones to Apple by January 8th for a full refund due to their holiday return policy.

 

[cocoro]

OP, you’d be even more fascinated to know that if I bought 10 different iPhones on November 10th I can return all 10 iPhones to Apple by January 8th for a full refund due to their holiday return policy.

Not just the phone, you can buy all new Macbook, iPad, Apple watches, HomePod and return them by January 8th 2020!

 

[KOTN91]

I think all this trying them and and returning is a pretty dick move tbh. Surely you must have a pretty good idea which phone out of the 12 series would be suitable as they are all very distinct. I do know that in the UK (and EU) there are far stronger consumer rights with respect to stuff breaking compared to the States though

 

[jm31828]

OP, you’d be even more fascinated to know that if I bought 10 different iPhones on November 10th I can return all 10 iPhones to Apple by January 8th for a full refund due to their holiday return policy.

I just learned about the extended holiday return policy after I received my Mini. I am on the fence about whether the screen flicker is going to be problematic for me, so it is fantastic to know I can try it out for nearly a couple of months before having to decide for sure to keep it or return it.

 

[Bea220]

Honestly @Ketsjap I didn't realize so many of us did this either... it wasn't until surfing the forums that I realized many buy multiple phones and keep their favorites. I've always been someone who tends to buy things intended to keep them without any doubts but this year I will get the opportunity to test out that new MBP without the sense that if I'm not pleased with it I'm not stuck with it. I'll even have all the way until January to return the product if it doesn't "wow" me.
It's AMAZING! I'm still teetering between the feeling I should hold off for the rumored 14" inch MBP or just settle down with the good ol' 13.3 screen. I'm glad I joined the forums or I never would have realized I can do this. Most retailers such as Best Buy implement a restock fee as opposed to Apple, who doesn't.

I am quite excited to get the new laptop today. It's been a very Appley year for me.

I bought my 12 Pro knowing it was a keeper. I just hope they make an impressive battery update soon. Other than the battery life I love my new phone!

I think all this trying them and and returning is a pretty dick move tbh. Surely you must have a pretty good idea which phone out of the 12 series would be suitable as they are all very distinct. I do know that in the UK (and EU) there are far stronger consumer rights with respect to stuff breaking compared to the States though

Yeah... it was an eye opener to say the least. I was especially bummed when I couldn't get my iPhone 12 Pro on launch date despite being awake since 3:30 a.m. to pre-order it. At least some bought both with the intent to KEEP both. I did notice many who bought them just to test them but hey, everyone has their "thing".

I can't say much about this now that I'm a guilty party with the new MBP.

 

[lordhamster]

Many on this forum say that they tried out their new iPhone, didn't like it, and returned it.

I'm fascinated by this. Here in Europe - in my country, anyway - you don't get to buy a new phone and then return it if you don't like it, after using it for a day. You bought it, you used it, it's yours.

Is this an American thing, this ease of trying out a phone and returning it for another one? No questions asked? Is that something common in the US? Are there laws in place that make this possible, or something?

And what happens to these phones? Are they sold again as new? Are they sold as second hand phones?

I'm very curious

I don't think our liberal return policies are the result of regulation, rather competition. Most tech companies allow you to return tech between 14-30 days. Some places like Costco are even longer to 90 days. While it can be costly when people behave like macrumors users, in the aggregate I think it boosts consumer confidence.

For non-electronics, some stores like Costco have unlimited returns. I bought a suitcase from Costco once, put it in the basement then forgot about it for ~5 years. First time I used it a wheel fell off. Costco took it back, no questions asked. As a result of their generosity, I purchase there ALL the time... so I'm confident that I weight abused the intent of their policy, nor that they have suffered financially. Quite the opposite, I'm loyal to companies that treat me well.

Now I'm an ex-German with a Chinese wife. All of our relatives overseas are always amazed at this level of generosity from US retailers.