Returning My 2015 15in rMBP

[KohPhiPhi]

I totally understand where the OP is coming from. His point is not to treat the rMBP 15" as a power gaming station... His point is that having spent $3200 for a top-of-the-line machine, you'd expect it to at least not suck at gaming.

Let's be honest guys: the new rMBP 15" is an amazing machine, but the m370x is totally subpar for a $2500+ system. This laptop should have come out with a m950 or m960. The m370x is simply miles behind the rest of the components (screen, processor, battery, SSD, etc are all excellent), and it brings the average score down significantly

I would have been a day-one purchaser, but the GPU was a deal breaker for me: I am not a hardcore gamer by any means, but I do enjoy gaming AAA games a few hours a week, and I think that's the position of the OP too.

 

[Freida]

I would return it. In fact I wouldn't buy it in the first place. I'm still on 2012 rMBP 15" and I'm waiting for an upgrade but 2015 model is not that. I guess Skylake is probably the time when I will pull the trigger.
GPUs on Apple's notebooks were always kinda bad but this is just plain insult.
One shouldn't accept that they push for SSD speed, beautiful screen etc. but leave one thing out that actually makes difference in lot of GPU intensive applications. (not just games).

I hope that Apple will one day offer the complete solution that will push the boundries of everything. Whats the point of having fast CPU & SSD when GPU is behind?

No thank you.

P.S.: Whilst we are at it, Apple - please bring back 17".

 

[Dead0k]

return it.
You are not satisfied with it, and that is obvious.

everything has to satisfy for that kind of price.
I agree that Apple is overpriced at the moment with current specs (old CPU(very end of its cycle) and low performance GPU). Probably the next generation will be better. Current Minor update is a minor update.

 

[yukyuklee]

same as some say if you aren't satisfied return it and buy something that you wouldn't have doubts about.

 

[Studflower]

I'm just waiting for Skylake and 7200 Iris Pro... With the option of TB3 and external GPUs, I think it'll be the ultimate mbp. (but there's been rumors of external GPUs since TB1 so who knows?)

 

[gngan]

LoL, well.. The point of the thread was to get peoples thoughts. I love the MBP I'm just super disappointed in its graphical performance. While yes I know its not a gaming machine, my thought processes went from, This is not a gaming machine, to why the heck is this not a gaming machine since I paid $3,200. I don't expect it to be a MSI titan class gaming laptop, but I did expect more at that price tag.

When Apple announced this new GPU no one knew anything about it. There were no benchmarks or anything to go off of. I ordered it thinking 80% better is huge this will be pretty good. Not expecting a 980m but at least 960m performance. Now that it has been thoroughly tested we can see that its about as powerful as the 850m. While that's not terrible, its not what you should be getting in a computer that expensive.

This computer has a beautiful retina display, at that resolution and screen size your not getting that for the real-estate, its because it will make things look amazing at 15.4in. Now, I didn't really expect to run GTA V at retina on ultra settings. But I did expect to run BioShock Infinite on Retina at high settings, and you cant. It will run at 15FPS. You have to go to some pretty old games to be able to play at retina and have settings that makes since to use at that resolution. Low + Retina at 15.4in is not as good as 720p + very high at 15.4, there is no gain. But very high + retina looks amazing. But you cant do it because the GPU is to slow.

I really just wanted a GPU that made it shine. And for the same reason I Built a gaming rig instead of getting a MacPro, I may just hold out longer till my 2011 MBP just doesn't cut it anymore and get a gaming laptop at half the price and a lot more power. I still have 4 days to decide, and I love the Mac OS a thousand times more than windows, and I wont be able to take my Apple apps with me. its just the price Vs Performance return is killing me.

Now that makes more sense. You are actually throwing irrelevant point and complicating things. In short, buyers remorse.

Frankly, if you were concerning about the performance then you should wait till there's some benchmark or review before spending so much money. It's your choice to buy whatever you want because it's your money but don't come back and complain because you didn't wait and do your homework.

If you are only considering price vs performance then Mac will always lose. Mac/OSX is not known for top specs. It is all about ecosystem and user friendly. You are a grown man and should be able to decide where to spend your hard earn money.

 

[gordian]

Bottom line, as others have said, is if *you* are not happy with it then return it. Not sure what the alternative machine is for you though...

 

[Jinzen]

I'm just waiting for Skylake and 7200 Iris Pro... With the option of TB3 and external GPUs, I think it'll be the ultimate mbp. (but there's been rumors of external GPUs since TB1 so who knows?)

Pretty pointless ...

TB3 for what? I don't even use my TB1 except as a dock occasionally.

USB-C is the future, but we're going to be in 10 years of adapters, so it hardly matters until devices actually become made and you need backwards adapters rather than forward adapters.

7200 Iris Pro... just as pointless being slower than current discrete solutions (current one is slower than my GT 650M)

New Body... Actually, yes I can see a space grey 15" being desirable, and along with cut down bezel and lighter weight, this is actually the ONLY real reason to wait for a redesign.

PS. External GPUs will never happen. This is Apple, not Alienware.

 

[nStyle]

Regardless of the price and what you were expecting, you bought a computer knowing very well that it wasn't going to meet your expectations in gaming as you already understood it wasn't a gaming computer. You also knew the 650M was "very slow" and that 80% faster than "very slow" is still "slow" at best.

While I wholeheartedly wish Apple would make the "ultimate" laptop which is capable of high end gaming in the 15" form factor (even if it added a touch of heft), they DON'T and whether they will is irrelevant since this is now.

You say you didn't buy the computer to game on necessarily, but it's obviously something you want to be able to do or you wouldn't be ranting on about it on here.

The new Razer with it's 970M @ $2399 is honestly your best bet. It looks pretty great to be a gaming laptop. Like I said, I feel your pain about not being able to have it all. But, there's compromises in EVERYTHING in the tech world. I've come to accept that myself.

I currently do very light gaming on my 13" rMBP because I got rid of my gaming desktop - but I miss having all the power even if I didn't care about maxing everything out. Thus, I'll probably just end up keeping my Mac setup and still having a gaming PC on the side. Again, sucks that you can't have everything in one device, but tis the real world.

 

[venom600]

Let's be honest guys: the new rMBP 15" is an amazing machine, but the m370x is totally subpar for a $2500+ system. This laptop should have come out with a m950 or m960. The m370x is simply miles behind the rest of the components (screen, processor, battery, SSD, etc are all excellent), and it brings the average score down significantly

Are you sure about that? Their competitors disagree... Dell updated their XPS 15 a few weeks before Apple did and it still includes the 750M. The Thinkpad T550 doesn't even include discrete graphics or quad core processors. The HP Omen is a dedicated gaming notebook and it includes the 860M, as does the Razer Blade, but those don't get anywhere near the battery life of the Macbook Pro. The other competition uses workstation class Quadro or FirePro graphics. There's nothing else on the market that even approaches the build quality, speed, and battery life of the Macbook Pro for the price.

Point is, you need to readjust your expectations.

 

[UltraClean]

I'm seriously thinking about returning my 15in 2015 Max Config MBP. The price I paid Vs the power it provides has been eating away at me. The CPU is very fast, The SSD is crazy fast, The screen is beautiful, but the GPU is garbage.

Yes, the GPU is faster than the last version by 80%, but the last one was very slow. 80% over very slow is still slow... I really didn't think this was going to bother me. I didn't by it as a gaming laptop, I have even debated with people on here that you don't get a MBP for games so this should not matter. But now that I have it, sitting down and looking at my $3,200 (After Tax) laptop and watching it struggle pulling 20FPS on BioShock Infinite bothers me to no end. Its like buying a Ferrari, that drives grate, is super conferrable, and looks amazing, but has no chance racing a Dodge Neon.

No, I didn't buy it for gaming. I wanted an amazing computer I could take with me that would do everything. And it does. And I know its not a gaming laptop. But at that price tag, $3,200 it should of had a much better chip. At least a 960m equivalent. Even taking the PICe SSD that I know is very pricy and that nice retina display, its WAY over priced, even for Apple. I don't remember my maxed 2011 17in MBP being this far off the mark.

TBH, I tried the same thing as you with the older 750m, and I completely agree. Then I realized I was gaming at home 75% of the time (even on my laptop) and that it really wasn't worth having a gaming laptop (even though the 750m model only lasted me a couple of weeks, since it honestly wasn't made for gaming).

So I now I have a base model 13" rMBP 2015, and a gaming tower with a 980 GTX. Again, 75% of my games are on Steam, and 75% of my time gaming is spent at home. With the steam in-house streaming I realized I didn't need a gaming laptop at all, and the $3000 spent on a gaming laptop was misplaced when I only actually needed it 25% of the time.

My point is, look at how often you actually need to play away from home and decide if it's really worth spending 2k+ on a gaming laptop when we have so many streaming options available at home now.

As others have said, if you aren't happy with the product and having put that kind of money on it, return it.

 

[inhalexhale1]

I'm seriously thinking about returning my 15in 2015 Max Config MBP. The price I paid Vs the power it provides has been eating away at me. The CPU is very fast, The SSD is crazy fast, The screen is beautiful, but the GPU is garbage.

Yes, the GPU is faster than the last version by 80%, but the last one was very slow. 80% over very slow is still slow... I really didn't think this was going to bother me. I didn't by it as a gaming laptop, I have even debated with people on here that you don't get a MBP for games so this should not matter. But now that I have it, sitting down and looking at my $3,200 (After Tax) laptop and watching it struggle pulling 20FPS on BioShock Infinite bothers me to no end. Its like buying a Ferrari, that drives grate, is super conferrable, and looks amazing, but has no chance racing a Dodge Neon.

No, I didn't buy it for gaming. I wanted an amazing computer I could take with me that would do everything. And it does. And I know its not a gaming laptop. But at that price tag, $3,200 it should of had a much better chip. At least a 960m equivalent. Even taking the PICe SSD that I know is very pricy and that nice retina display, its WAY over priced, even for Apple. I don't remember my maxed 2011 17in MBP being this far off the mark.

Sounds like you bought a computer that clearly has a mediocre GPU, and thought it would somehow be magically awesome. Also sounds like you KNOW it's not a gaming laptop, but you're returning it over gaming performance. Lastly, there was a 0% chance a 960m would find its way into the rMBP. Anyone expecting greater than a 950m was fooling themselves.

 

[inhalexhale1]

I bought it to be an amazing everything computer. To run all my Mac apps, bootcamp it to run my windows apps. To be honest it runs everything very well. But when it comes to loading a game. And yes I will game on it from time to time I can really see how bad the m370x really is. My 2011 MBP still works pretty well, no where near the quickness of this machine, but I may just buy a laptop with a 980m for half the price and pull over 4x better graphical performance. I would have to lug two laptops which is kinda ridiculous, but I would have to right tool for the job per say, in a 20 pound backpack lol.

This is super hard as I Love MACS. Love them. And I will always have a working mac as my main computer. But this just bothers me so much. I really wanted this to not be a problem, maybe I was just lying to myself because I knew that it would.

Why not just buy the Razer Blade? It's going to give great gaming performance, and have a similar (I think aybe thinner?) form factor as the rMBP. All around, it's a much more powerful and better laptop, if you don't need OSX.

 

[yjchua95]

Pretty pointless ...

TB3 for what? I don't even use my TB1 except as a dock occasionally.

USB-C is the future, but we're going to be in 10 years of adapters, so it hardly matters until devices actually become made and you need backwards adapters rather than forward adapters.

7200 Iris Pro... just as pointless being slower than current discrete solutions (current one is slower than my GT 650M)

New Body... Actually, yes I can see a space grey 15" being desirable, and along with cut down bezel and lighter weight, this is actually the ONLY real reason to wait for a redesign.

PS. External GPUs will never happen. This is Apple, not Alienware.

External GPUs will happen, because:
1. Thunderbolt isn't Apple tech. It's Intel tech, and Intel has explicitly said that TB3 will support eGPUs.

2. USB-C is now, Apple is just the first of them to have it. And USB-C/TB3 will share the same port. But then, Apple has almost always been at the forefront of technology.

3. The Iris Pro 5200 actually is faster than the GT 650M when it comes to real work (i.e. OpenCL computational tasks, not games).

 

[naujoks]

All you needed to do is study gaming benchmarks before buying.
If gaming at the full retina resolution is that important to you, you should have done a bit more homework.
For myself, I just lower the resolution and it plays all games fine at medium to high details.
I've just upgraded from the 650M to the latest rMBP, and previously Witcher 3 was unplayable, now it's looking very beautiful at 1680x800 at between 25 and 30 fps, which is fine for a bit of gaming on the road for me.

 

[Chunk72]

I'm not going to vote because its your choice but everything you've written smacks of buyers remorse.

 

[Steve121178]

I totally understand where the OP is coming from. His point is not to treat the rMBP 15" as a power gaming station... His point is that having spent $3200 for a top-of-the-line machine, you'd expect it to at least not suck at gaming.

You should expect it to suck as everyone knew it had a crappy AMD dGPU inside it! Spending more money on maxing the machine out isn't going to make the crappy graphics chip any better.

More to the point, everyone knew the latest 15" MacBook Pro was a stop-gap release. It doesn't even make use of Broadwell as Apple decided to release it just before the new Broadwell chips were released.

I'd return it and wait for Skylake. If you want to play games and this is a priority then you shouldn't ever purchase a Mac. Macs are crap for gaming considering some Windows machines for less than half the price destroy a Mac when it comes to gaming performance. There's so many options for gaming notebooks, so to purchase a Mac and expect it to play games really well is crazy. Do your research next time.

 

[Jinzen]

External GPUs will happen, because:
1. Thunderbolt isn't Apple tech. It's Intel tech, and Intel has explicitly said that TB3 will support eGPUs.

2. USB-C is now, Apple is just the first of them to have it. And USB-C/TB3 will share the same port. But then, Apple has almost always been at the forefront of technology.

3. The Iris Pro 5200 actually is faster than the GT 650M when it comes to real work (i.e. OpenCL computational tasks, not games).

You're confusing Intel and Apple support. While TB3 will for sure support eGPUs, Apple will never implement it and SUPPORT it on a Mac. It's not what Apple computers are made for. Look at the Alienware, it requires a custom enclosure, drivers and etc, but they're gaming machines. Macs are not marketed as such, and if you want to replace your own GPU, there are Mac Pros.

USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 are the same port. USB-C is not "now" just like TB2 is not "now". There are no peripherals built using USB-C, and until USB-C ports becomes mainstream in a few years, devices will not be made using USB-C, and when they do, USB 3.0 backwards adapters will be mainstream (and offer no real disadvantage)

I don't think anyone uses an Iris Pro 5200 for real Workstation duty or OpenCL, sorry to burst your bubble. No one will with the Iris Pro 7200 either. They're good inexpensive solutions for consumer end users for basic stuff like photoshop, high resolution output and light gaming, but that's it.

So.. yea, again wait for the next Macbook Pro if you want a redesigned chassis, there aren't any other real significant changes on the horizon even with Skylake.

 

[dma550]

though people may want to ding the OP for his buyer's remorse, this has helped me quite a bit. I have a mid 2012 with a 2.7 Quad, 16gb, 750m SSD and a 650m. It runs most things well, but I would love to return to one machine for work (windows .net developer / database admin) and play (watching movies, some gaming, some AAA titles). I think I will wait another refresh cycle and see what happens, then decide whether to go with a 980M machine (considering Gigabyte P37X V4) or keep on apple HW.

 

[yjchua95]

You're confusing Intel and Apple support. While TB3 will for sure support eGPUs, Apple will never implement it and SUPPORT it on a Mac. It's not what Apple computers are made for. Look at the Alienware, it requires a custom enclosure, drivers and etc, but they're gaming machines. Macs are not marketed as such, and if you want to replace your own GPU, there are Mac Pros.

Apple does not get to choose what parts of Intel's tech that it can/cannot implement. It's either they take Intel's way or the highway. So I'm pretty confident that the full TB3 will be supported.

I don't think anyone uses an Iris Pro 5200 for real Workstation duty or OpenCL, sorry to burst your bubble. No one will with the Iris Pro 7200 either. They're good inexpensive solutions for consumer end users for basic stuff like photoshop, high resolution output and light gaming, but that's it.

Then in that case you haven't seen my workplace, we utilize a lot of systems with Intel Iris Pro GPUs as test-beds to simulate consumer systems (in which it performs quite well and outperforms a lot of non-Maxwell cards) and AMD FirePro W9000s, D700s plus an NVIDIA Tesla to simulate workstations (and a server).

 

[Quu]

I'm surprised that Jinzen is arguing Apple won't support eGPU's on TB3. You can already use external GPU's over Thunderbolt 2 on a Mac. It just works. There is zero reason to believe it won't work on TB3 and Intel is even fully supporting it this time while they don't on TB2.

 

[yjchua95]

I'm surprised that Jinzen is arguing Apple won't support eGPU's on TB3. You can already use external GPU's over Thunderbolt 2 on a Mac. It just works. There is zero reason to believe it won't work on TB3 and Intel is even fully supporting it this time while they don't on TB2.

My point exactly. I mentioned earlier that Intel explicitly mentioned support for TB3, but @Jinzen keeps saying that Apple will choose not to implement that part. I will go out on a limb here and disagree very vehemently with him one more time, because Apple does not get to choose which parts of TB3 to implement or not. They can only take Intel's way or the highway.

PS - I'm running an eGPU setup on my late-2013 15" with a Sonnet IIID, Corsair RM450 and an NVIDIA GTX 780 Ti. Runs smooth and well.

 

[Jinzen]

My point exactly. I mentioned earlier that Intel explicitly mentioned support for TB3, but @Jinzen keeps saying that Apple will choose not to implement that part. I will go out on a limb here and disagree very vehemently with him one more time, because Apple does not get to choose which parts of TB3 to implement or not. They can only take Intel's way or the highway.

PS - I'm running an eGPU setup on my late-2013 15" with a Sonnet IIID, Corsair RM450 and an NVIDIA GTX 780 Ti. Runs smooth and well.

You're running a solution like this which costs more than a full fledged gaming PC/laptop? That only works in Windows?

Again, you're not getting it. APPLE will not be supporting external GPUs, there is no target audience for it (except, apparently you), making it work under Windows is a matter of driver support and third party peripherals.

Why you spent $1500+ for a desktop setup is beyond me, one could build a faster separate PC gaming system for the same or less.

 

[yjchua95]

You're running a solution like this which costs more than a full fledged gaming PC/laptop? That only works in Windows?

Again, you're not getting it. APPLE will not be supporting external GPUs, there is no target audience for it (except, apparently you), making it work under Windows is a matter of driver support and third party peripherals.

Why you spent $1500+ for a desktop setup is beyond me, one could build a faster separate PC gaming system for the same or less.

Again, you STILL don't get it. Apple cannot choose what it can support or not support in Thunderbolt, because Thunderbolt is completely under Intel's control.

I can afford it. I make enough money and can justify several of these units a month if I wanted to.

 

[Jinzen]

Also, if you weren't aware, this is Thunderbolt 3:

Which will fit inside a USB-C port, and render older TB peripherals useless. I don't see an External GPU solution from any manufacturer developed for 2-3 years until USB-C goes mainstream. By that time, time for a new Macbook Pro.