Returning to Windows Tablet?

[rowspaxe]

We take it for granted how convenient, robust and foolproof the update and install process is in iOS. Even in Windows 10 you still have to reboot the machine after every application install/uninstall.

not true. but, whatever...
[doublepost=1481220560][/doublepost]

I realize that Mac and iOS have a lot more Apps... but on this point, I don't care, and I'd argue that I don't need 15 variations of a PDF reader or some bizarre game. I just want some solid, dependable programs or apps to choose from. So for me, I could take or leave the iOS ecosystem.

I have made this point several times with regard to the claim that surface pro is not competitve due
to fewer metro apps. But when I ask what productivity functionality or apps I am missing...no one
has anything to offer. If you would miss "fun" apps and games, fair enough. Just dont tell me i am missing anything in terms of workflow and functionality on a surface pro, unless you can name apps.

 

[RickTaylor]

After using my iPad Pro (the big one) for about 11 months now - both lecturing and note taking, etc. - I'm thinking of seriously returning to a Windows based tablet; particularly the Surface.

I used a Windows tablet for years - since 2003 - for lecturing and work, but I switched to Mac for everyday computing in 2007. So, the tablet was just used for lectures. After many years though - and a failed attempt using the original surface 3 years ago - the old tablet is just too slow and unrealiable, and the iPad Pro came out.

The writing experience is fantastic, and the hardware really reliable. There are two things that frustrate me however:

• I have a specific way of filing my documents, etc., and rather than porting them over into an app, I'd like to just open it within the folder, work on it, and then save within the folder it resides (e.g., PDF Annotator). I find it cumbersome to import it into Goodnotes, mark it up, then export it again back into my Dropbox. Easy for a few documents, but after all the documents start piling up
  
• When I'm typing using the Logitech keyboard, I expect a touch pad or mouse, rather reaching up to swipe at the screen.
  
• I too carried two devices: the iPad Pro, and a MB Pro. It's getting heavy and a little cumbersome.

Anybody have similar sentiments?

If you're considering alternatives to a laptop/ipad-pro combination, and if (like me) your looking for a laptop you can take handwritten notes on rather than a laptop-tablet combo, you might also consider some of the other two in one Windows laptops. Lenovo X1 Yoga in particular could be a possibility. Again though, I'm not sure the writing experience would be as good as the iPad Pro; Apple did a stellar job with the pencil.
[doublepost=1481222812][/doublepost]

Alright... I can't find this preference setting in GoodNotes. What am I missing? Where should I look?

It's not easy to find. Launch GoodNotes. Load a document in GoodNotes. Tap on the eraser icon twice. Tap on the gear shaped icon. This brings up two switches; one to enable/disable auto-eraser deselect, the other to enable-disable erasing complete strokes.

 

[DaniJoy]

Artist here, just sold my 12.9 pro and got a 16" Wacom mobile studio pro. Had the iPad since launch. It ended up being just a light duty sketch book and content consumption machine. Could not be happier to be rid of the iPad. Windows 10 works great in tablet mode. Plus I have Much better software and workstation class hardware. So happy to be off the iOS software. The new Wacom pro pen is much nicer than the Apple Pencil. I don't think Apple Pencil is any better than the Microsoft pen and it's never been close to Wacom cintiq hardware.

I hope apple starts innovating more. It's strange to see Microsoft so far ahead with the surface studio and the surface pro line.
[doublepost=1481224514][/doublepost]I configure updates to run when I'm sleeping. My tablet never restarts /updates during business hours.
[doublepost=1481224812][/doublepost]Regarding the surface pen, it just takes a little time to get used to it. Honestly, when I got the Apple Pencil I hated it. Such a slick screen and low resolution pressure curve. The Initial activation force feels strange, like it just turns on by proximity rather than actual cell load. I remember it Felt like a leaky pen. But a week later I had it figured out. But at first It was not natural at all. No digital pen feels like natural media, they all require time to adapt and configure

 

[M. Gustave]

not true. but, whatever...

What's 'not true'?

 

[rowspaxe]

Regarding the surface pen, it just takes a little time to get used to it. Honestly, when I got the Apple Pencil I hated it. Such a slick screen and low resolution pressure curve. The Initial activation force feels strange, like it just turns on by proximity rather than actual cell load.

I think the apple pencil is very good but i wanted to reinforce this point. i have seen many reviewers say the pencil has a "more natural pressure curve" than the sp pen because it draws a line if you simply drag it on the screen with no pressure, while the surface pen ren will make no mark or an inconsistant line with no pressure. In my experience, natural media--most pens and certainly a pencil--require pressure to make a consistant line. The pressure responses between the two products are different, but I would say its somewhat subtle.

 

[rui no onna]

We take it for granted how convenient, robust and foolproof the update and install process is in iOS. Even in Windows 10 you still have to reboot the machine after every application install/uninstall.

I dunno about foolproof. I've had to do an iTunes recover/restore thrice because the OTA update failed - 2x iPhones and 1x iPad Air. I've also had several app updates mess up where it just shows a blank icon and app wouldn't launch so I had to delete the app (and lost app data which were thankfully unimportant).

Besides, most Windows applications don't require a reboot after install/uninstall.

 

[JT2002TJ]

What's 'not true'?

That windows 10 requires updates for software installs. I'm running windows 7 enterprise at work. I just got a new desktop (i7 processor with a 250 GB SSD). I installed SQL Server 2008, 2016, Management studio for both, and countless other applications. I had to restart the computer 1 time.

Also, Windows software updates are equivalent to iOS x.x updates, every time iOS updates it restarts as the final step... Windows just has to be more proactive about security updates, because they represent majority of the worlds computing so are a higher target.

 

[Pootmatoot]

(RIP Minidisc).

Hear hear!

 

[sparksd]

I dunno about foolproof. I've had to do an iTunes recover/restore thrice because the OTA update failed - 2x iPhones and 1x iPad Air. I've also had several app updates mess up where it just shows a blank icon and app wouldn't launch so I had to delete the app (and lost app data which were thankfully unimportant).

Besides, most Windows applications don't require a reboot after install/uninstall.

I've also run into hangups when installing updates to apps on my Air 2 - not a lot but also not nonexistent. And I agree on the Windows point - I have 3 machines running Windows 10 and and rarely have to do reboots on an install/install. And even when necessary, most of the time you have the option to wait on the reboot so I'll just do it when convenient. And on my laptop with an SSD (XPS 13), a reboot is incredibly fast.

 

[M. Gustave]

That windows 10 requires updates for software installs. I'm running windows 7 enterprise at work. I just got a new desktop (i7 processor with a 250 GB SSD). I installed SQL Server 2008, 2016, Management studio for both, and countless other applications. I had to restart the computer 1 time.

Good for you. I've had the message, in Windows 10, "Please restart to complete..." for application installations/uninstalls, many times. Your exaggerated experience ("countless other applications", really? You can't even count them all?) proves absolutely nothing.
[doublepost=1481229692][/doublepost]

I dunno about foolproof. I've had to do an iTunes recover/restore thrice because the OTA update failed - 2x iPhones and 1x iPad Air. I've also had several app updates mess up where it just shows a blank icon and app wouldn't launch so I had to delete the app (and lost app data which were thankfully unimportant).

I've owned the iPhone 4, 4s, 5s, and 6s+, and the iPad 2, 3, and Air. I've never had to do a restore or had an OTA update fail. So I guess either I have great luck, or you're really unlucky.

Besides, most Windows applications don't require a reboot after install/uninstall.

"Most" isn't "all". Thanks for confirming my point.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Good for you. I've had the message, in Windows 10, "Please restart to complete..." for application installations/uninstalls, many times. Your exaggerated experience ("countless other applications", really? You can't even count them all?) proves absolutely nothing.

I am a developer/report writer. I didn't want to list them all off, but if you would like, I can.

Applications that tend to want reboots are those that heavily modify the registry. Mainly the big ones like Symantec or other virus protection software are the big culprits to requiring a reboot. Most other programs have backed away from major registry writing, since there really is no need, and makes it more difficult to uninstall.

I see you skipped over my second paragraph.

 

[M. Gustave]

I am a developer/report writer. I didn't want to list them all off, but if you would like, I can.

Applications that tend to want reboots are those that heavily modify the registry. Mainly the big ones like Symantec or other virus protection software are the big culprits to requiring a reboot. Most other programs have backed away from major registry writing, since there really is no need, and makes it more difficult to uninstall.

Right, so your statement that Windows 10 does not require restarting after application install/uninstall is not accurate, depending on what applications we're talking about.

I see you skipped over my second paragraph.

I see you didn't read the whole thread. I said above:

Yeah I'm talking about application installations and uninstalls. That was dumb of me to mention system updates, which is just confusing the discussion.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Right, so your statement that Windows 10 does not require restarting after application install/uninstall is not accurate, depending on what applications we're talking about.



I see you didn't read the whole thread. I said above:

I did read it. Sounded like sarcasm, but I guess I assumed wrong.

EDIT: You are also comparing iOS to Windows, when windows is a full OS with multiple users/processes. It is easy to not require a reboot for software installs if the OS is not designed for multiple users. Windows software installations can sometimes require a reboot (again, this is mostly with software products which heavily integrate with windows) when they touch shared files (files shared by the OS or other multiple users).

Put it this way, if iOS opened up the ability for apps to actually do major heavy lifting with the OS, then iOS devices would require reboots too.

 

[DaniJoy]

I think the apple pencil is very good but i wanted to reinforce this point. i have seen many reviewers say the pencil has a "more natural pressure curve" than the sp pen because it draws a line if you simply drag it on the screen with no pressure, while the surface pen ren will make no mark or an inconsistant line with no pressure. In my experience, natural media--most pens and certainly a pencil--require pressure to make a consistant line. The pressure responses between the two products are different, but I would say its somewhat subtle.

out of the box it seemed to me that the sufacepen required a little more initial actication force. pressure curve is on par with apple IMO. both are far from cintiq. i cant remember all the details, since i have not had a SP4 for over a year. i sold off my SP4 in favor of the ipad pro. there is a pressure curve utility that needs to be downloaded for SP4- that is not included.

https://www.microsoft.com/surface/e...ws-store/surface-app?os=windows-10&=undefined

i think most people dont get that far and write off the pen. i know many artists who prefer the surface pen, because it runs on windows.

i had to tweek my ipad pro pencil endlessly to get a proper feel and i was never very satisfied with it (allong with the iOS apps). hence, why i upgraded to wacom for my mobile needs. the pressure is good enough on apple, i mostly did not like the leaky pen feel. apple does not actually register the cell load on IAF, it simply registers contact and starts flow. fine for pencil simulation, sucks for inking. this is a cheat and one reason why wacom has a much more analogue feel with its EMR tech.

i liked the ipad because its the best tablet (battery life, good gestures, light, cool and silent), not because it had the best pencil. thats just marketing and reviews done by non artist or artists who cannot afford high end cintiq hardware.

 

[rui no onna]

I've owned the iPhone 4, 4s, 5s, and 6s+, and the iPad 2, 3, and Air. I've never had to do a restore or had an OTA update fail. So I guess either I have great luck, or you're really unlucky.

We've had the following in our household (all of which I do tech support for):
iPhone
1x Original
1x 3GS
1x 4
2x 4S
2x 5
1x 5c
3x 5s
2x 6
1x 6+
1x SE
3x 7

iPod Touch
2x 4th gen

iPad
2x 2
3x 3rd gen
3x 4th gen
1x Air
2x Pro 9.7

All things considered, I wouldn't say I've been unlucky. I've just owned enough devices over the years that it was inevitable that a problem would crop up once in a while.

 

[Night Spring]

Could you explain how exactly do you do this? Because PDF Expert always duplicates the PDFs I edit on iCloud Drive.

I don't use PDF Expert so I don't know how that works, but in Pages, I tap the "Location" button at the top left corner, navigate to the file I want, open it, edit it, and when I close it, the edits are saved to the file in its original location, and no new copies are created.

 

[Vital0gy]

not true. but, whatever...
[doublepost=1481220560][/doublepost]
I have made this point several times with regard to the claim that surface pro is not competitve due
to fewer metro apps. But when I ask what productivity functionality or apps I am missing...no one
has anything to offer. If you would miss "fun" apps and games, fair enough. Just dont tell me i am missing anything in terms of workflow and functionality on a surface pro, unless you can name apps.

iMessage - I use it all the time while on my iPP. Honestly, it's one of the primary reasons I returned the SP4 after testing a few months ago.

 

[bensisko]

All things considered, I wouldn't say I've been unlucky. I've just owned enough devices over the years that it was inevitable that a problem would crop up once in a while.

I'm in the lucky category - I've been on iOS since Day 2 (I bought my first iPhone the day after launch day) and I've only ever had an update fail once (but on two devices) - and that was with iOS 10.

 

[case2001]

After using my iPad Pro (the big one) for about 11 months now - both lecturing and note taking, etc. - I'm thinking of seriously returning to a Windows based tablet; particularly the Surface.

I used a Windows tablet for years - since 2003 - for lecturing and work, but I switched to Mac for everyday computing in 2007. So, the tablet was just used for lectures. After many years though - and a failed attempt using the original surface 3 years ago - the old tablet is just too slow and unrealiable, and the iPad Pro came out.

The writing experience is fantastic, and the hardware really reliable. There are two things that frustrate me however:

• I have a specific way of filing my documents, etc., and rather than porting them over into an app, I'd like to just open it within the folder, work on it, and then save within the folder it resides (e.g., PDF Annotator). I find it cumbersome to import it into Goodnotes, mark it up, then export it again back into my Dropbox. Easy for a few documents, but after all the documents start piling up
  
• When I'm typing using the Logitech keyboard, I expect a touch pad or mouse, rather reaching up to swipe at the screen.
  
• I too carried two devices: the iPad Pro, and a MB Pro. It's getting heavy and a little cumbersome.

Anybody have similar sentiments?

Hi,

I use my MacBook Air 2013 and my iPad Air 2 in the same way. I have never felt the way GoodNotes uses import of PDF as a negative. I like an original unaltered PDF. I export to PDF when on my MacBook Air in the GoodNotes App on OS X as a new version of the PDF in a folder system you describe. Now I have versions of my edits. I use my MacBook Air as my server, if you will for all my work.

I understand your work flow, however.

I have nothing against the Surface. They are amazing devices. When i want to take notes, my device, pen, pencil, paper, iPad, Surface whatever needs to be ready to go. I do not want to have to any issues. It kills me!!! I love GoodNotes for this reason. Turn on my iPad, Click on GoodNotes on my Dock and I'm good to go. GoodNotes interface is much cleaner and simpler then OneNote. No comparison.

I enjoy having more screen space with 2 devices. I can have a book in iBook or Kindel app on my MacBook Air and take notes on the IPad.

If I were to do it again. I think I would still choose a new MacBook Pro 13 and an IPad Pro 9.7. The work flow is so much easier with 2 screens.

I carry both devices so if I need a keyboard I use the MacBook Air. I don't have to worry about reaching for a mouse because I'm on my MacBook Air using a trackpad

 

[ozone]

Hi,

If I were to do it again. I think I would still choose a new MacBook Pro 13 and an IPad Pro 9.7. The work flow is so much easier with 2 screens.

I carry both devices so if I need a keyboard I use the MacBook Air. I don't have to worry about reaching for a mouse because I'm on my MacBook Air using a trackpad

After refocusing on how I use my Macs and iPP, I think I'm going to stay with the two device combination - two screens are just easier than one given that I use my iPP as an electronic note pad. I think I might pick up a Macbook - underpowered in some ways, but given that I don't do video work or high intensity computing on the road - that combined with my iPP should serve my needs.

 

[DaniJoy]

After refocusing on how I use my Macs and iPP, I think I'm going to stay with the two device combination - two screens are just easier than one given that I use my iPP as an electronic note pad. I think I might pick up a Macbook - underpowered in some ways, but given that I don't do video work or high intensity computing on the road - that combined with my iPP should serve my needs.

yeah great advise. i find two devices is the best of both worlds type approach. i use a Wacom Mobile studio pro 16" windows tablet PC and a 9.7" ipad pro for my mobile art and design needs.

 

[Beavix]

I have a specific way of filing my documents, etc., and rather than porting them over into an app, I'd like to just open it within the folder, work on it, and then save within the folder it resides (e.g., PDF Annotator). I find it cumbersome to import it into Goodnotes, mark it up, then export it again back into my Dropbox. Easy for a few documents, but after all the documents start piling up

I've just learned something today which may help you working with the PDFs stored in Dropbox. The Documents app has an option to sync a remote folder with your iPad and this works with Dropbox folders too. I'm talking about real automatic by-directional sync which seems to work pretty much just like Dropbox on Mac or Windows.

So you could sync your entire Dropbox folder containing the PDFs (if you have enough space on your iPad), make any edits in Documents (you must have PDF Expert too for this to work) and everything will sync back to Dropbox. I've just tried this and it worked well.

 

[M. Gustave]

I've just learned something today which may help you working with the PDFs stored in Dropbox. The Documents app has an option to sync a remote folder with your iPad and this works with Dropbox folders too. I'm talking about real automatic by-directional sync which seems to work pretty much just like Dropbox on Mac or Windows.

So you could sync your entire Dropbox folder containing the PDFs (if you have enough space on your iPad), make any edits in Documents (you must have PDF Expert too for this to work) and everything will sync back to Dropbox. I've just tried this and it worked well.

PDF Editor has the same thing, it's called the "iCloud" folder (it's not "iCloud Drive").

 

[case2001]

I love having two devices. I often will have a PDF on my iPad and simultaneously a second document on my MacBook Air. I like the idea of a single device, but then I would need to print out much more material. (Which I still do sometimes). I know I'm in the minority but I do not want any low level access on my iPad.

On a side note, I am surprised no one else likes to keep an original of the PDF, which is not annotated or marked. I guess I'm in the minority here as well.

 

[macbookhair]

Completely agree that we take the iOS install process for granted.

I will point out, though, that you don't have to restart windows after every application install/uninstall (With the exception of system updates, I haven't had to restart Windows due to an install yet since XP).
[doublepost=1481157670][/doublepost]

These are some valid points, but I disagree with some of the assessments:
1 - Multiple Ecosystems are NOT a huge deal - not nearly as bad as they used to be. With cross-platform tools, using multiple devices with different operating systems can be pretty smooth. The ONLY time I've had problems is when it comes to restrictions based on employer. One of the lessons you learn being cross-platform is that not everything NEEDS to be on EVERY device! It's okay if a device has specific uses and purposes. I have more devices than I care to admit, but not even every iOS device has all my stuff on it - my 12.9" iPad Pro is reserved mostly for artistic endeavors, while I moved most of my work stuff to the 9.7" iPad. Same thing with Windows - I don't have all of my contacts and calendar stuff on the Surface Pro because I don't need to. If I want to move a drawing from the iPad to the Surface Pro, it's actually pretty simple - I could use Drop Box or OneDrive, or I could connect my iPad to the Surface via USB (I would LOVE for Apple to make AirDrop for the PC...).

2 - App Store - While the Microsoft Apps store itself isn't great, that HARDLY means that there are no apps for the Surface. In fact, there are TONS and TONS of apps for Windows. Are they all in the shiny new "Modern UI"? No, but with Windows 10 they don't need to be. Also, I would REALLY hesitate to say Windows apps are "less polished" than their iOS counterparts. Some are, but many others are just as polished (or better).

3 - Windows - I really do prefer the direction MS was going with Windows 8, and I often talk smack about Windows 10 Tablet mode (deservedly so), but the Windows 10 user experience is quite a bit better than older Windows (even 7 - and yes, even in my jaded opinion, there are quite a few improvements over Windows 8 as well, especially in how non-Modern UI apps are handled). While I still prefer iOS (ESPECIALLY in Tablet Mode), the Windows 10 experience is quite good.

Ultimately, the point is that there isn't a "better" operating system, there's just a "better for YOU" operating system.

Personally, I have a hard time using the Surface in the 'casual' settings i use my iPad in, but it's completely a personal mindset that holds me back - it's a mindset that's based on how easy and natural iOS is for me to use. I CHOOSE to use the iPad because it's the tool i want to use.

From the standpoint of the OP's dilemma - I just ask if you HAVE to choose? I have both and enjoy both for different reasons. My "workflow" is fluid enough that it's really based on the preference I have at the moment (with some exceptions). Keep both and use both.

This. I have a 9.7 IPad Pro, a MacBook Air and a Surface Pro 4.

The Surface is a much better product than I thought. Windows 10 is closer to Mac OS for ease of use and reliability than ever, even though there are some legacy issues yet to be resolved. I've had a couple of niggles, but then I've been having problems with my iOS devices since iOS 10.

I use the Surface mostly for business, as compatibility with my clients systems is much better and easier than on the Mac. But I also do some casual browsing on it in Tablet Mode and I actually rather like it. The display is fantastic.

But all that said, I often kick back with the iPad when I want to "consume stuff". It's just so easy to dive into and start to use and battery life is fantastic (a bugbear with the Surface). But can I be productive on it? No way. It just doesn't have the software capability to make it a Pro device. It's just a really great iPad.

It comes down to what you like, how productive you can be on it and what you're prepared to put up with in terms of quirks.