Review: Aqara Camera Hub G2H and Sensors Offer Easy Setup and Fast Response Times in Compact Designs

[scuac]

"The only downside to this solution is if you wish to use other Aqara devices without the camera, you would need to purchase a dedicated Aqara hub."

Hard pass

 

[jparchem]

It's unfortunate each item doesn't connect to HomeKit directly. They all need to go through their hub (which is currently not available on Amazon) or the camera with a built-in hub (which not everyone wants/needs their camera).

I think I prefer having these devices on their own hubs. Without any hub, they have to be either on WiFi (I prefer not to have IoT devices cluttering up my WiFi) or bluetooth to some other device. Having the hub also gives some measure of redundancy so if something like Apple's Home App gets buggy you can try using the manufacturers own app to troubleshoot.

 

[gk4]

I'm surprised people are so against hubs. Of the devices in my home, everything on a Hub has rock solid reliability (Hue, Lutron, Aqara) and almost everything off a hub has been so bad that I've totally retired the device or am in the process of doing so.

I literally just finished ordering a caseta switch to replace a Wemo dimmer. I decided to give it a try because I liked the styling - ignoring my gut telling me to just stick with Lutron - and in the 2 months I've had it, I've had to fully remove and re-add it to homekit twice. Same goes for my LIFX stuff - only one I have left is my LIFX beam since Hue has nothing like it, and it's non essential accent lighting so I can live with it having sub-par reliability.

 

[gk4]

Also, another thing to remember with Hubs - homekit is really nuetered and there are a lot of things it's completely incapable of doing.

For example, a Lutron Aurora simply couldn't exist as a homekit device because homekit doesn't even support something as basic as a dimmer. It has no concept of delta values, and even if it could accept delta value input - it has no direct method for proportional dimming. If you see what a script looks like to replicate a button based dimmer (it's basically a ridiculous looking list of conditionals checking current brightness, and then setting a different brightness) you would see why many companies still concentrate the actual logic within their own hubs. An Aqara cube for example would lose 80% of it's capabilities if it was directly connecting to homekit.

 

[archer75]

I'm surprised people are so against hubs. Of the devices in my home, everything on a Hub has rock solid reliability (Hue, Lutron, Aqara) and almost everything off a hub has been so bad that I've totally retired the device or am in the process of doing so.

I literally just finished ordering a caseta switch to replace a Wemo dimmer. I decided to give it a try because I liked the styling - ignoring my gut telling me to just stick with Lutron - and in the 2 months I've had it, I've had to fully remove and re-add it to homekit twice. Same goes for my LIFX stuff - only one I have left is my LIFX beam since Hue has nothing like it, and it's non essential accent lighting so I can live with it having sub-par reliability.

I agree. I have a house full of lutron switches are they have been 100% reliable with their hub. I do have 3 older Leviton non homekit switches from my previous house that require me to use a smartthings hub and run homebridge. When I can i'll replace those with lutron caseta as well.

I also have lifx bulbs I use for accent lighting in my den. They haven't been entirely reliable. And a couple of times homekit completely "lost" them and I had to re-add them as if they were new devices which was a pain. They mostly work well aside from that. Occasionally homekit takes a long time to see them.

What I would like is a smart combo switch for ceiling fan/light combo. So one part is light and the other fan. Lutron does make such a switch but it's not smart.

I'm considering finally getting some hue bulbs with a hub for a couple of applications in my home. Mostly as accent lighting. I do have 2 hue bulbs that work over Bluetooth and don't require a hub but those 2 are completely unreliable.

 

[hipnetic]

I'm surprised people are so against hubs. Of the devices in my home, everything on a Hub has rock solid reliability (Hue, Lutron, Aqara) and almost everything off a hub has been so bad that I've totally retired the device or am in the process of doing so.

I agree. My Lutron dimmers have been 100% reliable. I curse the company for charging so much for them ($55 and hardly ever discounted), I think they could be better designed (too many buttons IMO), and the button plastic feels thin and wobbly, but those last two complaints are minor.

As you (or someone else mentioned) a hub typically means that the tech is using something other than WiFi or BT and for good reason.

Having said all that...my Hue bulbs w/hub have been less than 100% reliable. I have a couple in bedroom lamps that I’d like to dim with a dimmer switch. I don’t have any Hue dimmer switches and rather than buy a couple of those at $20-30 each, I’m likely going to buy another Lutron lamp dimmer module since I have extra Lutron dimmer remotes.

 

[Alan Wynn]

To me HomeKit is one of the failure cause.

The problem with bridges/hubs is that it is a single device whose failure results in all the connected devices being taken off line. This has nothing to do with HomeKit, it is inherent in the model.

And it lacks tone of features. No logging, no easy toggle, hard to combine events, no parallel execution of the same sequence.

All completely valid complaints about HomeKit, but irrelevant to this discussion.

I only use it to bind ikea hw with Aqara Gadget. The most rules are pure Aqara internal rules, they work better

That you need HomeKit to get two sets of Zigbee devices that each require their own hubs to talk, is exactly the problem with Zigbee.

As for using Aqara’s hub as your automation controller, I would advocate for an open source product like HomeAssistant or OpenHab running on a Raspberry PI or BeagleBone Black (which can also act as a Thread Border Router), rather than someone’s proprietary product. Especially one that requires connection to someone else’s cloud.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I think I prefer having these devices on their own hubs. Without any hub, they have to be either on WiFi (I prefer not to have IoT devices cluttering up my WiFi) or bluetooth to some other device.

Nope. That is what Thread is all about. It is a low power, low latency, lower speed, pure IPv6-based mesh network, that allows multiple border routers between it and your main network.

Having the hub also gives some measure of redundancy so if something like Apple's Home App gets buggy you can try using the manufacturers own app to troubleshoot.

Actually, you have just made the problem worse. Now you do not know if the problem is with HomeKit, the hub or the device. With Thread devices, you can use standard network tools to monitor and trouble shoot them, and you can still use the manufacturer’s app, without being dependent on a hub (that needs to be updated, secured, and may want to talk to the manufacturer’s cloud).

 

[gk4]

All completely valid complaints about HomeKit, but irrelevant to this discussion.

I don't think it's irrelevant to this discussion. It's talking about why it doesn't make sense for certain things to go 100% thread at present.

I think it's relevant because reading through a lot of homekit related comments here, it seems thread is a buzzword that most people demand because they think it's the latest and greatest, but are unaware of the shortcomings. Or possibly they understand thread, but are unaware of the shortcomings of homekit itself.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I'm surprised people are so against hubs. Of the devices in my home, everything on a Hub has rock solid reliability (Hue, Lutron, Aqara) and almost everything off a hub has been so bad that I've totally retired the device or am in the process of doing so.

This is not an argument for hub/bridge vs. native IPv6, this is an argument either against HomeKit in general (certainly reasonable) and/or against WiFi/Bluetooth connected gear (again reasonable). Bluetooth has severe range issues and can have some latency problems as well. From what I can tell from reading other people's issues on here and other HomeKit related places, devices that share WiFi networks with non-IoT gear seem to be problematic.

Thread just replaces Zigbee's non-IP address and network protocol with the very well understood IPv6. This makes it possible to use the over 40+ years of experience with TCP/IP and 23+ years of IPv6 and all the tools that have been built for them to monitor and debug these connections. It means that one can connect natively from pretty much every major operating system and most importantly, eliminate propriety single points of failure.

Thread networks can have multiple border routers, meaning that even if one fails the devices still remain connected.

To be clear, the reasons I like Thread have nothing to do with HomeKit and everything to do with preferring IP based devices over other special purpose (and sometimes proprietary) protocols.

As we have already seen with Wink, Revolv and SmartThings, these hubs can easily be abandoned, likely rendering all the devices on them obsolete.

I literally just finished ordering a caseta switch to replace a Wemo dimmer. I decided to give it a try because I liked the styling - ignoring my gut telling me to just stick with Lutron - and in the 2 months I've had it, I've had to fully remove and re-add it to homekit twice. Same goes for my LIFX stuff - only one I have left is my LIFX beam since Hue has nothing like it, and it's non essential accent lighting so I can live with it having sub-par reliability.

I think that Lutron makes great products and have helped many friends install HomeWorks, Caseta RadioRA 1, and RadioRA 2 systems. When one is the sole vendor of a proprietary protocol, one does not have to worry much about interoperability and can change things without consulting anyone.

I have limited experience with Wemo products, but quite a bit with both Lifx and Hue. You have had bad experience with Lifx and great experience with Hue. Mine has been the opposite, but at least I can monitor the Lifx bulbs and understand if they are losing connectivity from a networking problem or for some other reason. When I have a problem with Hue, I have no way of knowing what is wrong (it is the bulb, the bridge, the connection between them, the connection between the bridge and HomeKit?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I don't think it's irrelevant to this discussion. It's talking about why it doesn't make sense for certain things to go 100% thread at present.

Please explain how the advantages of Thread as a networking technology have any connection to problems with HomeKit as a standard?

I think it's relevant because reading through a lot of homekit related comments here, it seems thread is a buzzword that most people demand because they think it's the latest and greatest, but are unaware of the shortcomings.

I have listed many benefits of Thread, none of which have anything to do with HomeKit and everything to do with multiple decades of experience with IP as a protocol. Please list any shortcomings of Thread of which you know (not arguing there are none, just have not seen any mentioned here or anywhere else).

Or possibly they understand thread, but are unaware of the shortcomings of homekit itself.

Again, how are the shortcomings of HomeKit related in any way to Thread?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I agree. I have a house full of lutron switches are they have been 100% reliable with their hub. I do have 3 older Leviton non homekit switches from my previous house that require me to use a smartthings hub and run homebridge. When I can i'll replace those with lutron caseta as well.

So in your argument in favor of hubs, you point out that your Leviton switches that used Zwave or Zigbee and use a hub are not reliable. Sounds to me like your argument is not in favor of hubs, but in favor or Lutron's single vendor proprietary protocol.

As I have said, I think Lutron makes great stuff and has all the advantages of a single vendor proprietary ecosystem. That does not advocate in favor of hubs, just in favor of them.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I agree. My Lutron dimmers have been 100% reliable.

As you (or someone else mentioned) a hub typically means that the tech is using something other than WiFi or BT and for good reason.

Once more the same combination. Hubs are good because Lutron's products are good. There are hubs that work with Bluetooth products. Hubs are needed for bridging networking/communication technologies and from proprietary to other protocols. I do not like systems with single points of failure. I prefer systems that I can monitor and debug with non-proprietary tools (so IP rather than Zigbee, Zwave or the completely opaque Caseta, HomeWorks, Insteon, Radio RA 1 or Radio RA 2). All things being equal (something that is often not the case), I prefer multi-vendor ecosystems especially with open source components.

Having said all that...my Hue bulbs w/hub have been less than 100% reliable.

Again, you are not building a case for hubs, but one for Lutron (a completely reasonable argument, just not the one being made).

 

[SRLMJ23]

I have two cameras. Initially I was concerned about privacy, and how some devices “call home” frequently. No need to signup to use the cameras, their app is useful only for updates - everything else is done at HomeKit app. I had not noticed any unusual activity (firewall logs)

I just bought the camera (about 10 minutes ago) and am looking forward to having a camera with HomeKit Secure Video, and all the other features. I will most likely end up buying the door sensor soon.

Glad to hear that you found no privacy concerns!

Are you saying that you really only need the Aqara app to setup the camera and then, as you already said, updates?

Thank you in advance for your answer, this is my first Aqara product.

 

[rictus007]

I just bought the camera (about 10 minutes ago) and am looking forward to having a camera with HomeKit Secure Video, and all the other features. I will most likely end up buying the door sensor soon.

Glad to hear that you found no privacy concerns!

Are you saying that you really only need the Aqara app to setup the camera and then, as you already said, updates?

Thank you in advance for your answer, this is my first Aqara product.

Yes, the app allows you to use it as a guest. You can setup the cameras just with HomeKit app.
Updates are not supported though HomeKit app, yet.

 

[archer75]

So in your argument in favor of hubs, you point out that your Leviton switches that used Zwave or Zigbee and use a hub are not reliable. Sounds to me like your argument is not in favor of hubs, but in favor or Lutron's single vendor proprietary protocol.

As I have said, I think Lutron makes great stuff and has all the advantages of a single vendor proprietary ecosystem. That does not advocate in favor of hubs, just in favor of them.

They are not reliable because I have to use homebridge to get them to work with homekit. I find homebridge to be unreliable. They work just fine if I use them directly with google, alexa or the Leviton app.

I am totally in favor of hubs as the products I have that use hubs are more reliable(when I don't have to use homebridge to make them work with homekit)
When using hubs, if homekit fails, and it does from time to time, at least I can still use the vendors app to control my devices should I need to. If 100% of everything I have was hub free and worked directly in homekit, and homekit fails, well that's a single point of failure.
And I have had homekit not work or have large delays or not update device status correctly. Despite having 6 devices acting as homekit hubs across the house.

 

[gk4]

Please explain how the advantages of Thread as a networking technology have any connection to problems with HomeKit as a standard?

I have listed many benefits of Thread, none of which have anything to do with HomeKit and everything to do with multiple decades of experience with IP as a protocol. Please list any shortcomings of Thread of which you know (not arguing there are none, just have not seen any mentioned here or anywhere else).


Again, how are the shortcomings of HomeKit related in any way to Thread?

The advantages of thread and disadvantages of homekit are interlinked in the sense that building a Thread smarthome network currently requires you to use homekit as the sole controller. (today at least, this could obviously all change in the future).

So for me, the technical benefits of thread and the limitations of homekit are one and the same because there is no path to a Thread smart device that doesn't flow through homekit. In the context of complaining that a device doesn't support thread - asking for said device to support thread at present is also asking for that device to only support the subset of features that homekit provides (I say subset in comparison to the feature set provided by whatever native hub the use).

 

[Alan Wynn]

The advantages of thread and disadvantages of homekit are interlinked in the sense that building a Thread smarthome network currently requires you to use homekit as the sole controller. (today at least, this could obviously all change in the future).

Sorry, this is completely untrue. There are quite a few other products that use Thread and are not even HomeKit compliant. Yale has a lock and much of Google's Nest gear is Thread enabled.

So for me, the technical benefits of thread and the limitations of homekit are one and the same because there is no path to a Thread smart device that doesn't flow through homekit.

Again, this is simply wrong.

In the context of complaining that a device doesn't support thread - asking for said device to support thread at present is also asking for that device to only support the subset of features that homekit provides (I say subset in comparison to the feature set provided by whatever native hub the use).

Completely false. Requiring a hub means that one is likely dependent on a single (or very small number of) vendor(s) to maintain a hub. Supporting Thread means that there are likely to be many devices that can directly talk to a device. It also means there is no single point of failure in the system. Most of the hubs are also "privacy challenged" and do not support local control. While there is no requirement that hubs work this way, pretty much everyone who makes one does this.

In addition, there is absolutely no reason that someone could not build a hub/bridge that was Thread-based. Just like the Hue bulbs use the semi-proprietary Zigbee variant of 802.15.4. The advantage is that it would allow standards networking tools to monitor the devices. That alone would be a substantial benefit.

 

[gk4]

Sorry, this is completely untrue. There are quite a few other products that use Thread and are not even HomeKit compliant. Yale has a lock and much of Google's Nest gear is Thread enabled.

Again, this is simply wrong.

Completely false. Requiring a hub means that one is likely dependent on a single (or very small number of) vendor(s) to maintain a hub. Supporting Thread means that there are likely to be many devices that can directly talk to a device. It also means there is no single point of failure in the system. Most of the hubs are also "privacy challenged" and do not support local control. While there is no requirement that hubs work this way, pretty much everyone who makes one does this.

In addition, there is absolutely no reason that someone could not build a hub/bridge that was Thread-based. Just like the Hue bulbs use the semi-proprietary Zigbee variant of 802.15.4. The advantage is that it would allow standards networking tools to monitor the devices. That alone would be a substantial benefit.

I think your issue is that you're trying to argue the academic benefits of Thread in a vacuum. And you're butting up against people who are talking about the current downsides in the real world.

We know there are other devices that use Thread. Nest has used thread for intercommunication for years. I have a Google device that uses thread - my Nest Wifi. That doesn't mean I have a Thread border router or that any thread border router outside of a homepod exists.

Instead of telling me what I'm saying is false, tell me how I can use a Nanoleaf essentials bulb - in thread mode, with anything other than HomeKit. My point (and that of others) is that anyone making a Thread device right now is locked to homekit.