RF device keeps track of students' whereabouts at school

craigdawg

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 8, 2004
360
0
Sactown
I see the benefits to this, especially in the event of a disaster or school shooting...but to not advise the parents? Dumb.
Sutter, Sutter County -- Angry parents, saying their children's privacy rights are being violated, have asked the board of the tiny Brittan School District to rescind a requirement that all students wear badges that monitor their whereabouts on campus using radio signals.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/10/BAGG0B8I4D1.DTL
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,239
4
that definately is somewhat an invasion of privacy, but i can see the practicality in it, however, they should have made the parents OK its usage before putting it into use
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
The big problem was not to ask for the parents permission first. If the schhool had explained the system and the reason for its use, chances ae most parenst would have approved. In this current world you can never be too careful when it comes to the protection of children. First of all parents need to be informed.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
Assuming your child will spend his entire life under someone else's control, this is a great idea! But if you intend the kid to become independent at some point, I would advise parents to show a little trust and respect, which are the first keys to the kid learning how to run his own life...

just my 2¢... but these are children, not prisoners.
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
Apple Hobo said:
If they tried this crap, imagine what kind of twisted Big Brother crap they will want to try next.
Hold on a second. These are kids being monitored while they are at school - not wherever they go off of school grounds. I don't see this as any violation of rights - it's easier than putting hall monitors everywhere, and it's only while the kids are in school. Kids have always been watched and monitored as to where they are - this just does it automatically.

If kids are leaving the grounds during school hours when they shouldn't be, or going places they're not allowed, this is a simple way to track it.
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
paulwhannel said:
Assuming your child will spend his entire life under someone else's control, this is a great idea! But if you intend the kid to become independent at some point, I would advise parents to show a little trust and respect, which are the first keys to the kid learning how to run his own life...

just my 2¢... but these are children, not prisoners.
How is this treating them like prisoners? When they're not supposed to be in school, they can go wherever they want. When they're supposed to be in school, this just makes sure they're in the right place.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
emw said:
How is this treating them like prisoners? When they're not supposed to be in school, they can go wherever they want. When they're supposed to be in school, this just makes sure they're in the right place.
Because school is where they're supposed to be learning the basic life skills... If the kid can't manage to go to school on his own volition, is he going to go to college or work, when there's no mom to wake them up? If truancy becomes a habitual problem, then intervene. But don't start off by showing a total lack of trust: Here kid, we think you're such a scumbag you can't even go piss without us knowing where you are. I think the data out there backs me up, overparenting leads to problems leaving the nest later.

That's not even mentioning the technical nightmare... RFID? They want to put those in passports too, but it opens a huge door to identity thieves, scanning people for their personal data. A little pedophile wardriving, do you really want your kids to be little beacons sending out an invisible digital identifier? Hell, child safety experts recommend against even putting first names on T-shirts and bookbags, this is way beyond that.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,568
0
If this system were available and not used by the school. Then a child was kidnapped from the school. Who would be the ones complaining then?
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
wdlove said:
If this system were available and not used by the school. Then a child was kidnapped from the school. Who would be the ones complaining then?
In pretty much every case of kidnapping that occurs from the building, the school has known about it within minutes. And, it's almost always family, who would know to remove the badge before passing the doors. And, the sensors wouldn't help police track the child, even if the kidnapper left it on. Exactly what protection does it offer?
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,177
0
paulwhannel said:
Because school is where they're supposed to be learning the basic life skills... If the kid can't manage to go to school on his own volition, is he going to go to college or work, when there's no mom to wake them up? If truancy becomes a habitual problem, then intervene. But don't start off by showing a total lack of trust: Here kid, we think you're such a scumbag you can't even go piss without us knowing where you are. I think the data out there backs me up, overparenting leads to problems leaving the nest later.
this isn't about overparenting or tracking every move. Tell me in school you were allowed to wander wherever you wanted to in the 7th grade? Right. This makes it easier to take attendance, insure kids don't get left on buses, etc. They're not going to know any more or less than they do today - it'll just be easier.

paulwhannel said:
That's not even mentioning the technical nightmare... RFID? They want to put those in passports too, but it opens a huge door to identity thieves, scanning people for their personal data. A little pedophile wardriving, do you really want your kids to be little beacons sending out an invisible digital identifier? Hell, child safety experts recommend against even putting first names on T-shirts and bookbags, this is way beyond that.
Someone would need to hack the RFID code to get this information. It's not like carrying around something like, say, a report card or a note from the teacher, or any of the hundreds of other things every year that kids carry with their names on it.
 

angelneo

macrumors 68000
Jun 13, 2004
1,541
0
afk
I do think tagging kids in school is a tad too much. Would you want to be tagged for your every move while you are working? Maybe your employer is doing that in case of disasters or hostages or whatever, but would you do it to yourself?
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,910
41
Andover, MA
emw said:
Someone would need to hack the RFID code to get this information. It's not like carrying around something like, say, a report card or a note from the teacher, or any of the hundreds of other things every year that kids carry with their names on it.
Agreed. Knowing the kid is broadcasting a 32-bit value isn't going to help a kidnapper. RFID devices like this don't store info, only an ID into the database.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,910
41
Andover, MA
paulwhannel said:
Exactly what protection does it offer?
None. It would indicate the child wasn't on the grounds, but nothing more. It's very unlikely police could even hope to locate the RFID device unless they were right next to the kidnapper.
 

jsw

Moderator emeritus
Mar 16, 2004
22,910
41
Andover, MA
paulwhannel said:
But don't start off by showing a total lack of trust: Here kid, we think you're such a scumbag you can't even go piss without us knowing where you are.
As emw pointed out, this has been done forever. The badges merely automate the process.

Of course, it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize you could leave the badge and walk off.
 

Koodauw

macrumors 68040
Nov 17, 2003
3,937
174
Madison
I can see it now

"Well johnny was in the bathroom from 930am-1005am and we're curious about what was going on in there."
 

cyanide

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2005
234
0
Chicago
Don't panic said:
big brother meets gattaca

very very scary.

maybe they should implant devices in everybody's head and be over with it




it gets better everyday...
as long as those devices are useful things like toasters, microwaves, washing machines, or high-powered industrial cutting lasers, i whole-heartedly agree with you. I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to grab a toddler by the hair and make a bagel in his cranium, but alas! i am dismayed... woe is me until the dawn of Fisher Price's child-utensil line.
 

Don't panic

macrumors 603
Jan 30, 2004
5,541
696
having a drink at Milliways
cyanide said:
as long as those devices are useful things like toasters, microwaves, washing machines, or high-powered industrial cutting lasers, i whole-heartedly agree with you. I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to grab a toddler by the hair and make a bagel in his cranium, but alas! i am dismayed... woe is me until the dawn of Fisher Price's child-utensil line.
:D LOL :D

the problem I have with this badges, and with any privacy-limiting issue (I am with you with the bagel idea, as long as it is for public usage ;)) is that it conditions people (and therefore it is especially effective with children) to think that it is normal and legitimate to have your every move monitored by authorities, and that if you object is because you must have some sort of criminal agenda.

Any society has to find a balance between Order and Freedom, but my worry is that we are swinging way too much to the right and a big-brother-like society, where you can do whatever you like as long as it it what the authorities want you to do.

As far as the tech issue of the "readiness" of the RF technology, it is really a non-issue. the technology will be there, sooner than later, so if you are ready to accept it for schools, be ready for it to becoming an ubiquitous feature of our society.
 

combatcolin

macrumors 68020
Oct 24, 2004
2,283
0
Northants, UK
Ever heard of apron strings :mad:

It will be Collars next that explode if your late for class :eek:

How long before the kids read about loaction tracking technology for rapists etc and make a connection?
 

Zazette

macrumors newbie
Feb 8, 2005
18
0
Canada
Made me think of a Japanese movie called Battle Royal. An undisciplined class of kids was sent to a killing camp where they had to kill each other and the winner was the last one standing. And they had little tracking device to monitor if they were dead or alive. If they tried to take the device off, it went KABOOM and exploded, killing the kid in it's path.

If you want my opinion, any tracking device on anybody is truly disturbing ... Have the world gone mad!?!
 
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