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timidpimpin

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Original poster
Nov 10, 2018
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OS X is an OS that has been very good to us PowerPC users, and today Mac OS 10 died with the release of Big Sur, which is pegged as macOS 11.0.

So a solid 18-19 years using the same OS number. It's been a blast, and will continue to be. Also, I would say a truly desktop OS is also dead now at Apple. This new look and functionality is brutal to me.
 

alex_free

macrumors 65816
Feb 24, 2020
1,060
2,246
OS X is an OS that has been very good to us PowerPC users, and today Mac OS 10 died with the release of Big Sur, which is pegged as macOS 11.0.

So a solid 18-19 years using the same OS number. It's been a blast, and will continue to be. Also, I would say a truly desktop OS is also dead now at Apple. This new look and functionality is brutal to me.

Waiting for that funeral now.

This ARM switch is probably the most ‘Jobs like’ thing Apple has done since Jobs. He never wanted to switch to Intel. He used to bash it quite heavily until it became the only option. Pretty neat to see how everything played out.

Not sure how 11 is a mobile OS, slightly out of the loop but from what I can tell it’s still Desktop level.
 

retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
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Interesting times. I remember at the beginning of the decade that people though 11 would come out for the 10 year anniversary. Took a lot longer than that. I suppose enough has changed since 10.0 and 2001 that it's time to switch the number. Wouldn't want to get to 10.20 or something silly high like that.

On the design, it is horrid. Icons are terrible and the apps look like iPad apps, waste of screen space. More reason not to upgrade... My time with "new" Macs dies here. I was already planning to move once ARM switch happened (which I cannot criticize entirely, I understand the reasons but it's just not for me) but this is the nail in the coffin. Goodbye Mac OS X.

I will still be using Tiger and Snow Leopard
 

James Gryphon

macrumors member
Aug 20, 2018
53
86
I figure it's about time!

That may sound cold, but I felt the prolonged stay at '10 dot' reflected a sense of stagnation that had come over the Macintosh line for the past 15 or so years, while Apple focused on mobile devices. Now things are finally moving again.

Some may say that the Mac is dead, but I prefer to see this as striking back. 15+ years ago Macs were 4.4% of the market. Now they will be part of a major platform for the first time in - probably ever. It's the effect the clones were meant to have, done right.

As far as the aesthetics go, it is admittedly more of an iDevice look, but that's in vogue now. It's worth noting that the criticism of the look now is very similar to the kind of criticism that was leveled at early versions of OS X (coming from the sensible and workmanlike Platinum interface).

That said, it's not all rainbows (well, the new interface might be ;) ). Here's my speculation (this is MacRumors, after all): I think it's just a matter of time until all software run on Apple products is required to be from the app store. Apple might have denied it so far, but it's strongly in line with their philosophy, and it's just too easy to do; they're already halfway there. When you can run any iOS software on the Mac, that'll expand the software library considerably and provide enough of a cushion to allow them to pull the trigger on the change, whenever they think they're ready. x86 emulation will likely be removed after 2-4 versions, judging by Apple's recent history in this regard, and I'm guessing non-store software will go at the same time.

If we're still around in 2024 or so, check back and see if my prediction was right.
 

z970

macrumors 68040
Jun 2, 2017
3,582
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A couple of thoughts...

Leaving OS X with Catalina was bad form, as that meant that its expansive legacy ends on a low note (worse than Vista), and not a high one. While not once acknowledging the OS transition, none the less. I think they did it not out of any good reason or logic, but just to have a clean cut, so that they wouldn't have ARM Macs running both OS 10 and OS 11, that it wouldn't be left on 10.17 or 10.19, etc.

I think moving to ARM is ultimately a good move (as it will put an additional dent in Intel's already declining market share), but could have been executed in far more agreeable ways.

If you look closely, you can see that there is no "Memory" tab in that About This Mac window like there used to be. So my predictions are that, matching in line with Apple's vision of an ideal (locked down) computer, all ARM Mac memory will likely be soldered in, dGPUs will be phased out, and maybe only non-volatile storage options will remain as a user accessible component (going off of the window alone).

More than likely, Hackintoshes will no longer be possible, and Apple will exert even greater control on anything to do with their ecosystem, including their software, which will likely nag you for an Apple ID even more now. - On a related note, my heart goes out to the poor trusting folks who've sunken tens of thousands into their Mac Pro 7,1 hoping to be honored for years to come, only to inevitably find themselves in the same boat as G5 owners in 2005. I give them three years of support, tops.

Side note, I was surprised that in a very uncharacteristic move, Apple not only acknowledged the existence of Linux, but also showed AND interacted with an active distro (Debian 10) too. Which I thought was pretty funny because anyone who's looking between the lines and disapproves of macOS 11's changes were just inadvertently presented an alternative to use instead. Free advertising, hey. :D

Back to Big Sur, I thought the new interface (wallpaper especially) brought back echoes of early OS X, when desktop releases had open, flowing, abstract wallpapers as opposed to photographs, which iOS has already returned to for several years before now. And the very slight return to skeumorphism of the existing flat icons (only after the departure of Jony Ive, no less) was an interesting turn of events to see as well.

Needless to say, I think Mojave and Catalina will eventually find themselves in a place very similar to where Tiger and Leopard are today. It will be very interesting to see not only where the future will take them, but most importantly how Apple's userbase will inevitably split up and react to this over time.

End of an era.

Inb4 the PowerPC Macs forum is banished to the Wasteland and Intel Macs takes over the communal brilliance thriving here as its successor.
 
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edubfromktown

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2010
819
691
East Coast, USA
I've got a collection of the boxed OS X'es beginning with 10.1. Can't say that the upgrades since then have been terribly problematic overall and I consider myself very fortunate.

Wayyy back with the first few releases, it was quite refreshing going to a UNIX-based/like operating system. It was so much more user friendly (and offered corporate software compatibility) than Linux which I've used since the 1990's for anything and everything other than a desktop OS environment.

Progress is generally painful. Going from 16 to 32-bit was so and again 32 to 64. Hopefully the transition to ARM won't be a pain in the NECK ;) (I'm planning on waiting a couple of hardware iterations before jumping on that bandwagon). So many are completely hung up on benchmarks and squeezing every last bit of performance out of even 2020 hardware. Apple has made my life much simpler (not only for myself but my entire family since I no longer fritter away time troubleshooting windoze hell of many forms anymore).

Hope they get better hardware manufacturing and software dev/test processes in place to kick some arse on the competition in 2020 and beyond!

...and maybe use some Chaos Monkey action too :D
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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f you look closely, you can see that there is no "Memory" tab in that About This Mac window like there used to be.

This is normal behaviour on a system with soldered RAM - on a system with upgradeable RAM, the tab is there. That ARMed Mac mini they used sure has soldered RAM. Did anyone notice there was no GPU information in the window?
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I would say so. If the next macOS is 11.0, then yes, 10 is dead. High Sierra support ends in Sept. this year, and Mojave and Catalina will get another 2 years support at best.

The "OS X" branding (not the 10.x versioning scheme) has been dead for four years already - and I couldn't see them going for "OS XI" once the inevitable switch to 11.0 happened.
 
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z970

macrumors 68040
Jun 2, 2017
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This is normal behaviour on a system with soldered RAM - on a system with upgradeable RAM, the tab is there. That ARMed Mac mini they used sure has soldered RAM. Did anyone notice there was no GPU information in the window?

Thanks. I haven't used anything new enough to have soldered memory, so I wouldn't know.
 

timidpimpin

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Nov 10, 2018
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The "OS X" branding (not the 10.x versioning scheme) has been dead for four years already - and I couldn't see them going for "OS XI" once the inevitable switch to 11.0 happened.
I was including both names because they both had the the number 10. And sure it was time to move to a new number. What are they going to do, go up to 10.40?
 

AshleyPomeroy

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2018
88
177
England
In all that time I never managed to train myself to say OS Ten. Always OS Ecks. Always "OS Ecks Ten Point Four". And now it isn't even called OS X any more.

Also, DosDude is going to have his work cut out porting MacOS 11 to my late-2009 MacBook Pro. On the one hand it seems impossible, but on the other hand this is DosDude, he is not like ordinary men.

My school had lots of BBC Micros, but I remember that the Acorn Archimedes wasn't nearly as successful. I've only met one person who owned one, and I've only seen one in the flesh, and yet here we are in 2020 and Apple is now betting its future on the distant ancestors of the technology in that machine. I would never have imagined.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,579
11,836
Side note, I was surprised that in a very uncharacteristic move, Apple not only acknowledged the existence of Linux, but also showed AND interacted with an active distro (Debian 10) too.
The big question is - was that a virtualised ARM or an emulated x86 instance?
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My school had lots of BBC Micros, but I remember that the Acorn Archimedes wasn't nearly as successful. I've only met one person who owned one, and I've only seen one in the flesh, and yet here we are in 2020 and Apple is now betting its future on the distant ancestors of the technology in that machine. I would never have imagined.
Until some months ago when I received an offer I couldn't resist, I had an Acorn RiscPC with a 233 MHz StrongARM and all that jazz. That thing was a rocket and as rare as hens' teeth in Germany. Loved it.
 
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z970

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Jun 2, 2017
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The big question is - was that a virtualised ARM or an emulated x86 instance?

They touted Rosetta 2 for Mac apps. I don't think they would have advertised its performance as an emulation layer by emulating an emulator, at least not realistically.

I'm betting they used a virtualized ARM environment. As in:

Either they pulled the official arm64 .iso for the demonstration, or precompiled their own special version to run on their chips.
 
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Hughmac

macrumors 603
Feb 4, 2012
5,973
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Kent, UK
Seems like High Sierra and Mojave will be the end of the line for me, as only my 2013 MacBook Air will run Bug Sur, and only then by the skin of it's teeth.

I'm not going to be rushing into ARM any time yet, so time to get those Mint discs out methinks ;)

PPC however will continue as normal...

Cheers :)

Hugh
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,342
6,479
Kentucky
I've been playing with Big Sur for a few hours now, and a few interesting things.

First of all, it's worth nothing that while System Profiler reports 11.0, when you attempt to download it you're downloading the "10.16 installer." The 11.0 naming seems a bit more cosmetic, as I've seen several "under the hood" places where it's called 10.16.

Aside from that, all I can say is it's a weird OS. 3D icons are back, but in a weird, cartoonish way and not the elegant 10.5 era ones. It has some annoying iOS like features. The right hand side of the menu bar is a mess to me. There's no option to have the battery percentage displayed next to the battery icon-you have to click on it to see it(just like with the notch on iPhones, although admittedly there's at least an explanation for it there). You have to dig through menus to see the WiFi network to which you're actually connected.

Oh, and then there's the fact that they had to change the perfectly serviceable and iconic camera sound for screen shots to a stupid "beep-boop." The old one was a recording of a Canon AE-1, and since a Canon A-1 was my first "real" camera I felt a strange tie to it.
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,249
8,192
The big question is - was that a virtualised ARM or an emulated x86 instance?
[automerge]1592866146[/automerge]

Until some months ago when I received an offer I couldn't resist, I had an Acorn RiscPC with a 233 MHz StrongARM and all that jazz. That thing was a rocket and as rare as hens' teeth in Germany. Loved it.

it was ARM Linux. Apple said so in the State of the Union address.
 
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rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
691
924
My school had lots of BBC Micros, but I remember that the Acorn Archimedes wasn't nearly as successful. I've only met one person who owned one, and I've only seen one in the flesh, and yet here we are in 2020 and Apple is now betting its future on the distant ancestors of the technology in that machine. I would never have imagined.

It's not so much Apple betting its future on their ancestors; it's more like Apple joining the many companies who have facilitated the Acorn's descendants' rise to dominance. Thanks to the rise of mobile devices, ARM has practically taken over the world. I remember when x86 Android and MIPS Android were a thing, and now, they're basically all but forgotten.
 
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