rMB for a Computer Science major?

[thekev]

Perhaps you're right. Thankfully, 8GB RAM is standard! I'll try to bump up the storage if possible. And, I'm sure it can compile a 1+ million line project, but it might take a bit of time. 😉

8GB isn't very exciting with VMs. You may notice a performance impact with a browser, one or two other applications, and your vm. The base model has 256GB of storage. That may be painful later on. I don't think you'll notice it as much at the beginning. A combination of low disk space and just enough ram will make VMs very irritating at times. I would consider checking whether your school has a decent lab, in case you ever run into that situation.

Other than that I don't think you'll run anything comparable to what mmthor is running in the near future.

 

[xmichaelp]

The 12" powerbook, when I was in college, was the lightest computer available from Apple. I took it everywhere for all 4 years of college. It weighed 4.6 lbs. The 13" rMBP weighs 3.5 lbs...

So what? Technology advances and perceptions change.

 

[nutmac]

I just want to know if the rMB will handle them at a pace I'm acceptable with.

I have 2 Macs, current generation 2.5 GHz 15-inch MBP that I use for development and entry level 1.1GHz MB that I use for personal use. I share MB with my 1st grader son for development (CodeRunner) and school work.

I have 2 issues with current generation MacBook:

1. 8GB RAM: You mentioned Java and VM and these two things really benefit from having 16GB RAM, especially if you are planning on running your own database and web servers as well.
2. Screen Size: IDEs such as Xcode and IntelliJ IDEA suffer from MacBook's small screen. Its highest resolution, 1440 by 900, is really cramped for development. It's doable in a pinch, but significantly degrades productivity. MacBook is frequently hooked up to 4K TV for this reason, but both 30Hz refresh rate and weak GPU makes the experience rather unpleasant.

The bottom line. You should at least wait for 2nd generation MacBook, which might be offered with 16GB (a bit of a long shot but you never know) and faster GPU for driving external monitor with greater ease.

According to rumor mills, 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Pro may be getting all new design (thinner and lighter) in the near future as well.

 

[shifomu]

I didn't want to reply to this until I had some time to do some testing myself, because I found it very hard to believe, considering I can run Linux with an XFCE GUI on my 1st Gen Raspberry Pi easily.

So, I've deployed a few VMs on my ESXi host, gave them each 2GB vRAM, 1 vCPU (limited it to 600MHz, which is the low programmable frequency for the 1.2GHz 1st gen m5 processor), and installed CentOS 7 x64 with the default 3D-accelerated GUI in one of them, a non-accelerated variant in another, Linux Mint (XFCE), Linux Mint (Cinnamon), and Linux Mint (MATE).

All ran fine for me (albeit understandably "slowish" ... 600 MHz), with the exception of the ones with the desktops that were doing software-rendered affects (no 3D acceleration enabled for the VMs. we're talking slide ... show.) Switching the desktops in those to something less demanding fixed that issue for me (I prefer XFCE, but if I want to be extra lean, I go for Busybox.)

So, I think it all ends up being relative. What is acceptable to some may not be so to others.

Will the rMBP be faster? Yes. That goes without saying. All else being equal, the CPU in it will allow a user to do everything faster than the one in the rMB. The question remains if the anticipated workload of a comp sci major (specifically the OP) would run acceptably fast on the rMB. Admittedly, only they can answer that accurately, but if I were doing comp sci again (once was more than enough for me), it would be fine, and when I eventually go get my Master's, I'll most likely be using one.

I think you're right about it being relative and your testing is far more detailed than mine. I should be more clear, it absolutely does boot into an OS fine but it's not quick enough for any real world usage, the second delay or two when you click the track pad and wait for it to register is unacceptable for me. All of my usage was done using MS Hyper V and not Oracle's Virtualbox.

Thanks

 

[PTLove]

The reality of most Comp Sci programs is that they dont do large scale intensive work. Most classes dont require more than relatively simple gcc/g++ support and maybe a BISON/YACC deploy, both of which are low cost.

Now, you may choose to do larger projects on your own time, which require more horsepower, but to "just do" a comp sci degree doesnt take too much.

Id be far more worried about maxing out at a 1440*900 resolution. That could be a little rough.

 

[NT1440]

VM support has been old had for years now. If you can get it done with a 2010 MBP (which you definitely can) the rMB isn't going to have any issues.

 

[cube]

Don't buy less than 16GiB or RAM, so that you have 8GiB for Mac and 8GiB for VM.

4GiB is less than the basic for a casual user since quite some time.

4 cores, so that you can have the basic 2 for each.

As this is a learning system, choose one with NVIDIA, so that you can both use CUDA and (unoptimized) OpenCL.

Even if you buy a PC, the specs remain so that you can work with Windows and Linux at the same time.

 

[David58117]

Don't buy less than 16GiB or RAM, so that you have 8GiB for Mac and 8GiB for VM.

4GiB is less than the basic for a casual user since quite some time.

4 cores, so that you can have the basic 2 for each.

As this is a learning system, choose one with NVIDIA, so that you can both use CUDA and (unoptimized) OpenCL.

Even if you buy a PC, the specs remain so that you can work with Windows and Linux at the same time.

Isn't this overkill for a comp. sci. program?

 

[cube]

Isn't this overkill for a comp. sci. program?

You can just use pen, paper, and the university labs.

 

[npolly0212]

The thing with owning a Mac for the major, I still have to go to the computer lab for specific classes because I can't do certain stuff on my macbook

 

[thekev]

The thing with owning a Mac for the major, I still have to go to the computer lab for specific classes because I can't do certain stuff on my macbook

Try something like brew. It will allow you to easily install unix packages on your mac if you're missing some.

 

[mac8867]

I run a 13" rMBP, i7, 16 GB RAM, 1TB hard drive. I am a core Java software developer, backend engines, heavy financial analysis software, multiple clients and platforms. If I work at it, I can bring it to it's knees, but only if I work at it. Honestly, I wouldn't ever go with anything less. The 16GB or ram is critical for virtualization, Vbox and VMWare Fusion are what I use. If I have a virtual DB server, 2 IDE's (one engine, one presentation layer) running in debug, I am good. If I could get 32GB I would take it. I like you like the smaller, lighter, footprint, so that's the 13".

IMHO, the rMB just isn't enough machine. The Air is way underpowered for a developer. This is my second rMBP, and I love it.

 

[npolly0212]

Well

Try something like brew. It will allow you to easily install unix packages on your mac if you're missing some.

right now I'm taking my c++ course and a lot of it is done in terminal using the UNIX Linux lab, so I have to go to school to do anything with it.
I can remotely login, but can't submit em without going into the lab

 

[cube]

I run a 13" rMBP, i7, 16 GB RAM, 1TB hard drive. I am a core Java software developer, backend engines, heavy financial analysis software, multiple clients and platforms. If I work at it, I can bring it to it's knees, but only if I work at it. Honestly, I wouldn't ever go with anything less. The 16GB or ram is critical for virtualization, Vbox and VMWare Fusion are what I use. If I have a virtual DB server, 2 IDE's (one engine, one presentation layer) running in debug, I am good. If I could get 32GB I would take it. I like you like the smaller, lighter, footprint, so that's the 13".

IMHO, the rMB just isn't enough machine. The Air is way underpowered for a developer. This is my second rMBP, and I love it.

The rBMP is OK for web development, but not for heavier stuff.

And if you don't want something heavier than 3.3 Kg, you can have 64GiB RAM nowadays, but it is still a wimpy 4-core machine.

 

[mac8867]

The rBMP is OK for web development, but not for heavier stuff.

I wouldn't know, I am not a web developer. Just a lowly financial analytical engine developer. But that can't be too heavy right? Lets not drag this down into a "who's mojo is better" type of thing man.

 

[thekev]

Well

right now I'm taking my c++ course and a lot of it is done in terminal using the UNIX Linux lab, so I have to go to school to do anything with it.
I can remotely login, but can't submit em without going into the lab

Ah that is annoying. I thought it might be a lack of unix libraries, and brew would help with that. OSX also comes with bash, so you have access to that. I'm just saying you can probably do most of your work on your macbook pro. Just make sure you test it on Linux before submitting something as compilers are different and you're probably using gcc (g++) on Linux rather than clang.

 

[Altis]

I think the 12" screen would be a tad on the small side if you use it primarily without an external monitor.

Heck, even the 13" is on the small side IMO.

 

[a2daj]

The rMB will be fine for CompSci development purposes. I'm a full stack engineer (database all the way through front end JS development) and I can spin up a Docker VM (2 cores 4 GB) to run our full work stack and have Eclipse open for Java development. I tend to have Atom open for some bash script work. Compiles can be a slow but work actually gets done. I can verify functionality of the various services as I work on them. As others have said, more RAM would be nice but for CompSci courses, you should be fine.

Comparing that to my Senior Project in college, it's nothing. I was using Virtual PC on a PowerMac 7500 building an MFC project with Visual Studios. The rMB with my current workload is a breeze.

Typically, I would almost always choose the 15" above all else due to the power but I decided I'd try for portability. While I have no problems lugging a 15" around, after having carried around the rMB, I can see why some people choose portability above all else.

I have a work 15" rMBP which I keep at work. I had a 13" rMBP I bought shortly after the 12" rMB. But as soon as I booted it up and the fan started spinning I started pondering the 12" fanless model. Once I found a 12" in stock at an Apple store (on my birthday of all days) I picked it up and gave the 13" to my brother. I'm not regretting the choice. I bring my rMB with me everywhere. If I had the 13", I'd be leaving it at home more often.

If you find the rMB not enough, Macs have excellent resale value... If you end up getting a faster model, make sure to get more RAM. That would be my single most important reason to get a new portable computer at this point.

 

[cube]

I wouldn't know, I am not a web developer. Just a lowly financial analytical engine developer. But that can't be too heavy right? Lets not drag this down into a "who's mojo is better" type of thing man.

I understood you were doing something that requires more power than web development, but if you are happy with an rMBP, then the samples you're running with it are not that heavy.

 

[mac8867]

I understood you were doing something that requires more power than web development, but if you are happy with an rMBP, then the samples you're running with it are not that heavy.

Fair enough. I think the point we all are getting to is, a laptop is a great tool, even for a heavy developer. You will almost always trade off portability for power. The question becomes, what constitutes "power" for your work activities. For me, memory and IO is everything, the CPU count and speed is secondary. (Albeit, not when my stuff goes to production, then the rules change).

My measure of the situation: If you plan on any virtual machine usage, 16GB is mandatory and non-negotiable. Just try to launch more than 2 VM's with 8GB (VMF doesn't let you)

 

[npolly0212]

Ah that is annoying. I thought it might be a lack of unix libraries, and brew would help with that. OSX also comes with bash, so you have access to that. I'm just saying you can probably do most of your work on your macbook pro. Just make sure you test it on Linux before submitting something as compilers are different and you're probably using gcc (g++) on Linux rather than clang.

Yep I've learned that! Lol!
I'm gonna buy a cheap sell over summer just to have that remote access and be able to do anything I need from home

 

[thekev]

Yep I've learned that! Lol!
I'm gonna buy a cheap sell over summer just to have that remote access and be able to do anything I need from home

You could just install the same distribution of Linux via virtual box, fusion, parallels, etc. A vm should be fine. If your school has a server environment with something like ssh set up, you might also be able to just use that from your mac and some text editor. There are usually better options other than buying a second machine, especially if they allow you to run under an identical environment.

 

[npolly0212]

You could just install the same distribution of Linux via virtual box, fusion, parallels, etc. A vm should be fine. If your school has a server environment with something like ssh set up, you might also be able to just use that from your mac and some text editor. There are usually better options other than buying a second machine, especially if they allow you to run under an identical environment.

Well anyway I have tried from my MacBook hasn't worked. I also want it just to have a Windows system also since most of what we are taught from is for a Windows machine