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rMBP irreplaceable RAM is a deal breaker!
- Thread starter octavianguti
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OK. I am fine with that. I stand corrected about the 16GB DIMMs for use with LR-DIMM server class applications. But the germane point still remains.
It is unlikely that you will see laptop 16GB single stick dimms for these reasons:
1) JEDEC specifications for SODIMM DDR3
2) Ivy Bridge/Haswell does not support LR-DIMM, RDIMM modules.
So my point is, if you are going to debate buying a Retina vs a Non-Retina 15" Macbook, get the maximum you can on a Retina. With 16GB, you are at the max you can get with 2 banks. If you buy a Non-retina, thinking in the future, you can upgrade to larger sticks (e.g. get 32GB), that will not be the case.
Sure, you can buy a 8GB non-retina and upgrade to 16GB a few months down the line. You'll be spending $130-$200 for after market RAM which is close to what Apple upcharges for the 16GB RAM on the Retina. If you already bought a 16GB Retina, you are basically good for the next three years. Then upgrade something post Haswell mobile INTEL chipsets supports higher memory modules per bank.
The statement was made that 16GM DIMMS were not possible with DDR3. That refutation was done correctly.
How soon will we see them in 204 pin versus 240 pin format? I don't know.
I was not saying that it will not be released because it's a developer conference I was saying that because they just updated it about a month ago. I highlighted the beginning letters because the OP didn't know what WWDC was.
Edit: I have been following Apple for a while, I know they release more things than just software.
Always fun to watch people get their panties in a twist when someone points out the shortcomings of a particular device. I'm sure it's a good machine, I didn't say it sucked, just that some of us consider non-upgradeable computers to be less than "pro". I do find it peculiar the rMBP SSD card isn't hard wired in as well...but I'm sure that's coming, too. Planned obsolescence. Next Rev of the retina I might buy, I dunno, let's see what it offers. The screen has obviously been problematic for lots of folks and I would not be willing to accept that at that price point.
Right now .000001 thinner doesn't negate the upgradability of the cMBP. If that 1 extra pound is killing your back, then maybe you need to exercise more? I don't find the classic to be heavy.
I do remember not that long ago people saying no one would ever need more than 4GB. Now it's the minimum.
You are not getting it, do you? I'll break it down for you:
1st) 16GB is maximum what any Ivy Bridge laptop is going to take - ever. So the argument is invalid. If you consider yourself a pro, inform yourself on how memory works and why there won't be 16GB DD3 sticks.
You can "delay" investment in 16GB but that's all it offers...
Nobody is saying 16GB will be enough forever, what everybody is saying is that by the time you need more, your disk will hold you back (SATAExpress already has 16Gbit interface as opposed to 6Gbit SATA3), your CPU will hold you back, your GPU will hold you back.
2nd) rMBP has memory latency so ridiculously optimised you won't see it in any other laptop (http://macperformanceguide.com/mbpRetina2012-speed-memory-bandwidth.html). That's actually PRO. Non-upgradeable, but pro nonetheless.
Okay, I absolutely love it how you completely ignored every bit of useful information in my reply. Because if 16GB doesn't cut it for you for full orchestra you either have no clue about orchestration (you know, scoring for an actual orchestra) or you have no clue about how Kontakt and DFD works. That says more about your so-called professionalism than swappable RAM ever will.
I grew up on desktops replacing CPUs myself when I needed an upgrade. There are things you give up in favour of others. I had a Mac Pro up until I bought the retina. I never ever went to a dealer to fix my computer or to setup my system.
Also, if you need an upgradable laptop, forget about a MacBook altogether, in that sense, not one of the laptops in Apples range are PRO, you have laptops where you can actually swap GPU. Now that's PRO.
Just because you can swap RAM that doesn't mean that cMBP is in any way upgradeable.
You sure don't know alot for a "pro" with such a snobby attitude towards people who "only use MS word and watch movies"...
About the "exercise/weight thing"? Grow the hell up. If you're such a manly man get a PC thats 4cm thick, has 4 RAM slots, has swappable GPU (and 680GTX stock) and Hackintosh it.
???
I don't get the attitude. The pro line of Apple laptops have had an upgrade path for storage and memory for many (every?) generation until the retina so why is anyone pretending that this is the norm?
You're reading too much into the "pro" moniker. It's only advertising hype.
And a "closed" system is pretty much the norm these days - at least with portable machines. I don't like it either but from a manufacturing perspective I can certainly understand it. Not to mention the windfall profits Apple gets (and others) for the BTO machines they sell.
As silly as the old statement "64k should be enough for anybody" is, and as much as I'd rather have the ability to upgrade my RAM...
16GB really should be good enough for anyone for the next couple of years. I mean, 4GB is already "adequate" for regular use and 8GB is overkill for most people outside of professionals or heavy VM users.
Obviously at some point 16GB will fall into the "adequate" or even the "inadequate" category. But by that point, the laptop will be already obsolete in most other ways that it won't really be a cutting edge workhorse like it is now.
So while not "future proof" it should be good until 2015 or 2016.
16GB really should be good enough for anyone for the next couple of years. I mean, 4GB is already "adequate" for regular use and 8GB is overkill for most people outside of professionals or heavy VM users.
Obviously at some point 16GB will fall into the "adequate" or even the "inadequate" category. But by that point, the laptop will be already obsolete in most other ways that it won't really be a cutting edge workhorse like it is now.
So while not "future proof" it should be good until 2015 or 2016.
I have to agree... the "Pro" versions of their machines have always been decently up-gradable... or at least up-gradable enough to make people happy.
That response by agaskew is a bit "out there" I think it's just his/her Apple-zealot or Apple-Reality-Distortion-Field showing.
It reminds me of my friend. He went on and on about how the iPhone 4-series had the PERFECT screen size. Any bigger was lame. Samsung's upcoming GS3 was lame lame lame. Screen is not the size of Apple's so it's just stupid. This is PERFECTION! Anyone trying to make anything bigger is just STUPID and LAME and FAIL. Really, he sounded like a child.
Then he learns that Apple's iPhone 5 was going to have a slightly bigger screen. OMG Apple has made the PERFECT screen. I always wanted it slightly bigger. Now I can see an extra row of icons. This is perfect and the way of the future. Smaller screens are so silly. Who would want a smaller screen? etc.
This is a late-20-something IT guy. That was in love with Apple's previous "plan" and then in love with their new "plan" to the point that they'd ask "who'd even WANT the old plan"
So I'm kind of not surprised at agaskew's comment. A lot of Apple fans react like that ("They are perfect no matter what, even if it goes against what we said before"). I'm NOT saying a majority of Apple fans are this way, but enough to make me not surprised
Personally I'd rather they left their Pro lines up-gradable. I mean, I'd also be fine with the 16GB package since that should be enough to keep my laptop running fine until everything else is obsolete... but I'd like the OPTION to upgrade if I needed.
Even then rumors is not much difference in power 10-20% give or take a few right?
In CPU. GPU is rumored to be up to 100% better with HD 5200, and there might be better battery life (that would be negated with putting a more powerful CPU in).
$999 MacBook PRO 13 = Advertising hype.
$2200 rMacBook PRO 15 = Machine priced and designed for "Pro" use.
I hate the whole "its not a Pro" defense because the name is irrelevant since most people are buying based on power/value rather and could care less about the name and are buying on specs/price. And for $2000+ then it's not unreasonable to have higher expectations on the life of the machine.
Is it really true? In ultrabooks I guess I can understand soldered memory but even on todays high end windows notebooks then thats "the norm"?
The integrated GPU is supposed to be loads better thanks to Haswell. But I don't believe that will help you at all when you're in Discreet-GPU mode.
So the 13" might get a nice bump. But the 15"... no so much
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Last I've seen, soldered memory is NOT the norm save for ultra slim offerings. High end models, such as Lenovo business-class laptops and I think even Alienware gaming laptops have user-replaceable memory.
As I said, you have Windows Laptops with swappable GPU and 4 RAM slots.
Having the same amount of RAM as any other laptop is hardly any more "pro", the whole package is suppose to be "pro".
The 13" retina is well over 1600$, which is not a 999$ air: completely "pro" pricing, yet it doesn't even have a discrete GPU.
Swapable RAM is the least I expect from a Pro machine, the biggest "non pro" thing about latest Apple offering is their inability to update their PRO apps (like Logic...) for retina.
I know this thread has been beaten to death but still would like to chime in. I run Reason & Ableton with a number of other applications (PS comes to mind) for my production work and with 8GB RAM and an SSD, this late '11 17" MBP runs like a Cheetah. Not sure what you could possibly be doing that would require 32GB of RAM even in the next 5 years.
EDIT: Just read your Kontakt Orchestral Libraries, I'm not a huge fan of NI vst, so I cannot speak from experience. I run a number of other vst within Ableton while using Reason via Rewire and have no issues. Cannot imagine why you'd be rummaging through 43GB of sound just randomly.
EDIT: Just read your Kontakt Orchestral Libraries, I'm not a huge fan of NI vst, so I cannot speak from experience. I run a number of other vst within Ableton while using Reason via Rewire and have no issues. Cannot imagine why you'd be rummaging through 43GB of sound just randomly.
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Wow so this is the way you convince people to stay with Apple? I cant say if this was entertaining to read but was an eye opener.
Whether it's soldered or not, every machine has a maximum amount of RAM that it supports. The fact that the RAM is 'irreplaceable' is a moot point. It just means that if you want the most RAM the laptop supports, then buy it maxed out on day one. End of story.
Don't expect MBPs to support 32GB in the next generation. Remember that the 13" only supports 8GB at this point.
Don't expect MBPs to support 32GB in the next generation. Remember that the 13" only supports 8GB at this point.
it's not all about upgradability imo, the whole laptop needs serviced if the ram goes bad. unlikely as that may be, it's still a reasonably common enough component to go bad that it makes sense to keep a few spare sticks of ram around (i have like half a dozen stock sticks of ddr3 from the macs i've purchased in the last handful of years). it's the difference between 15 mins and being back up and running and making an appointment with the apple store. time is money.
You can actually upgrade the RAM in all retina macbook pros by changing all the logic board.
From 1099.95$.
Check this out:
http://www.ifixit.com/MacBook-Parts/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-2-3-GHz-Logic-Board/IF117-011
From 1099.95$.
Check this out:
http://www.ifixit.com/MacBook-Parts/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-2-3-GHz-Logic-Board/IF117-011