rMBP vs Late 2011 17" MBP

[maflynn]

I still can't my head wrapped around the idea of buying a Sandy Bridge laptop for almost 2k when if the OP waits a bit longer, can get a Haswell based laptop for about the same amount.

I understand that for some screen, real estate is king and I can't knock that. The question is, how often will the 17" screen be needed, i.e., in mobile situations where hooking up to an external monitor isn't feasible or available.

Sounds like the OP has an external monitor and if he's not needing the laptop in mobile situations too much, then the rMBP appears to be a better buy imo

Just my $.02
I understand GermanyChris' assessment that the screen, palm rests are bigger and the laptop is more repairable or upgradeable by the consumer but still you're paying almost 2k for such old technology it doesn't seem like a good use of money to me. I will say its not my money and if the OP (or other members) do get a great benefit out of the 17" laptop who am I to criticize

 

[GermanyChris]

I still can't my head wrapped around the idea of buying a Sandy Bridge laptop for almost 2k when if the OP waits a bit longer, can get a Haswell based laptop for about the same amount.

I understand that for some screen, real estate is king and I can't knock that. The question is, how often will the 17" screen be needed, i.e., in mobile situations where hooking up to an external monitor isn't feasible or available.

Sounds like the OP has an external monitor and if he's not needing the laptop in mobile situations too much, then the rMBP appears to be a better buy imo

Just my $.02
I understand GermanyChris' assessment that the screen, palm rests are bigger and the laptop is more repairable or upgradeable by the consumer but still you're paying almost 2k for such old technology it doesn't seem like a good use of money to me. I will say its not my money and if the OP (or other members) do get a great benefit out of the 17" laptop who am I to criticize

The Sandy to Ivy to Haswell speed gains are blow your socks off impressive. The Haswell battery gain is blow your socks off impressive for the MBA but I don't know if we'll see those kind of gains in the rMBP. The speed gains from faster RAM are just not that great and the last Sandy will run 1600 anyway. Quality SATA3 drives will saturate the bus no matter their form factor. Without a benchmark people will be hard pressed to tell the difference between an SSD on SATA 2, SSD on SATA 3, PCI-e SSD if your using them as a boot disk, scratch on the other hand is different.

If you need the flexibility of the 17" you need no matter that is older and still expensive. If you don't need what the 17" offers then it'd be silly to buy it. A realistic needs assessment is in order especially when your buying something relatively expensive and stuck in time.

 

[maflynn]

I went from a C2D to Ivy Bridge and I was incredibly impressed and so I think going from Sandy Bridge to Haswell will produce the same level of Wow factor, including much better integrated GPU performance.

I agree the battery performance will probably be just localized to the MBA because of its use of the ULV Haswell chip, where as the normal mobile versions of Haswell won't see that level of power savings, but on the flip side they'll see better raw performance that the MBA doesn't see.

Until we see an actual MBP with the Haswell chipset this is all somewhat speculation but I think I made my point in that (for me) spending a2k which is a lot is better spent on the latest technology then spending it on 2 year old technology

 

[NewishMacGuy]

The rMBP is very nice, but being locked into the current base spec of 8GB and 256GB SSD is worse than being locked into Sandy Bridge, a non-retina screen and USB2 IMO.

If you have to go base rMBP, either wait until base is at least 512GB with Haswell or better, 802.11ac, TB2, and the new superfast PCI or stick with the uMBP-17.

When you can't easily upgrade, the base spec had better be all you need for several years to come at rMBP prices, and the current ones are not.



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[thekev]

I went from a C2D to Ivy Bridge and I was incredibly impressed and so I think going from Sandy Bridge to Haswell will produce the same level of Wow factor, including much better integrated GPU performance.

It depends on what factors you examine. I don't rely too much on geekbench, but you could compare the difference between C2D machines and Sandy to the difference between Sandy and Ivy. The difference in X86 gains for Haswell will likely be less than Sandy to Ivy. I'm not sure about the iGPU factor. Sandy especially took a step up where it moved from 2 to 4 cores on some models. Those gains were extremely noticeable if you could really tax all available cores.

 

[GermanyChris]

On the enthusiast sites Haswell has been a big meh, this is following an Ivy that needed to be delidded to keep it's cool..

That doesn't mean that Haswell mobile will be lackluster but I don't think it's going to have a lot of real world performance benefits.

I don't think there are that many big jumps ahead of us until we can replace silicone. DDR4 should show good performance gains but...

The traditional personal computer market is shrinking Intel will like push harder on Atom than standard destop/moble CPU's and to be quite honest most people greatly over buy every time they buy anyway.

Most of the computers in this place will do nothing more strenuous than making a home movie or using the spot healing brush in Ps. There are those that push their stuff hard but their few and far between and I have to wonder if you are listening to your fans run @ 5000RPM for days on end if you actually bought the right tool.

 

[CARABAO]

I still can't my head wrapped around the idea of buying a Sandy Bridge laptop for almost 2k when if the OP waits a bit longer, can get a Haswell based laptop for about the same amount.

I understand that for some screen, real estate is king and I can't knock that. The question is, how often will the 17" screen be needed, i.e., in mobile situations where hooking up to an external monitor isn't feasible or available.

Sounds like the OP has an external monitor and if he's not needing the laptop in mobile situations too much, then the rMBP appears to be a better buy imo

Just my $.02
I understand GermanyChris' assessment that the screen, palm rests are bigger and the laptop is more repairable or upgradeable by the consumer but still you're paying almost 2k for such old technology it doesn't seem like a good use of money to me. I will say its not my money and if the OP (or other members) do get a great benefit out of the 17" laptop who am I to criticize

I definitely understand where you're coming from, but here are the factors that make the decision difficult:

rMBP:
1) Retina app support - a third of my work is visual, so I need support for the apps that I'm using. A big part of this is Flash CS6. I make banner ads and Flash games for a living. If Flash CS6 was supported, then I'm all set. But I've searched thoroughly, and it looks like Adobe hasn't included Flash in its Retina support roadmap.

So for the amount of money I'm gonna shell out, I'm obviously expecting a nice and smooth real work experience in return. If only I could test Flash or at least see a screenshot of Flash CS6 in a retina 15", that would be great.

I know it can be plugged to the external monitor and have Flash run at normal pixel resolution, but there are times that I go to production meetings with clients to work live to beat deadlines and such.

MBP 17:
1) Old - I know it's still good for what it's worth. And I know it can handle all the things I can throw at it NOW. But questions arise if it can handle work I do in a year or two down the road.

I actually never thought that web development and general dev work, and Flash work can take its toll on a machine until I saw how slow my 2008 MBP was compared to my mid 2012 air.

I owned a 17" MBP last year, but I sold it for personal reasons. I'm not saying I regret it, but I must say that the need for screen real estate is a necessity for my line of work. I know I'm plugged to an external monitor 90% of the time, but a big screen is nice to have if it need be.

So the bottom line for the 17" is that I don't know if it will do me good in the future. For the amount of cash I'm going to spend, it better be. If I sound stupid, so be it, but I think that's the fun part when it comes to this kind of dilemma! LOL!

Here's how I plan to use either laptop:
I plan to use either as a mobile desktop machine. I can't go for an iMac, because there are times clients demand me to produce on site / in their office. My MBA just can't cut it in terms of screen real estate productivity.

For the usual workday, my work happens in the external monitor while all FTP and iOS simulators are in the laptop.

In my thoughts:
I'm kinda siding with the rMBP just because of its overall value. Plus I can get the same resolution as the 17" in a smaller and lighter package. And of course, I will wait for Haswell if this will be my final pick.

Anyone care to take a screenshot of Flash at 1920x1200 in their rMBP?

 

[Boe11]

It sounds like you've already decided but I'll throw in my $.02.

The 17" mbp is really a terrific machine. It's still one of the best combinations of form and function and the screen -particularly the anti-glare model- is one of the best I've ever used. Not just because of its size, but the whole experience, the 17" macbook pro is the only notebook I've used that made me forget I was using a notebook. It didn't feel like I was sacrificing anything to be portable (a relative term these days).

Having said that, it's really hard to recommend buying a 17" over an rMBP. While I certainly mourn the loss of the 17, the rMBP is just a much better buy in 2013. I'd be the first in line if Apple revived the 17" line, but until then I'll happily use my rMBP and occasionally stare longingly out the window, pondering what might have been.

 

[CARABAO]

Thanks for your input brother. I've been having dreams (LITERALLY!) of Apple announcing a batch of Haswell rMBPs with a 17" added to the line up!

Anyway I just found out that Adobe has Flash supported for Retina, but it's for the Creative Cloud version. I'm not sure of the CS6 version though (which is what I have).

Here's the scoop: http://blogs.adobe.com/flashpro/

 

[Doward]

THe difference between a Core 2 Duo and Sandy Bridge is *huge*.

The difference between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge is not. Tick vs Tock.

Haswell should prove to be a good jump - better than Sandy to Ivy, not as good as Core 2 Duo to Sandy.

My 2.5Ghz 17" MBP with 16GB of DDR3 1600mhz ram + SSD absolutely *flies*. It eats up anything I throw at it - I run XP and 7 in VMs with 2 GB on XP and 4GB for Win7 allocated, concurrently, with FCPX encoding in the background with no issues.

I will not feel the need to upgrade until Broadwell or beyond, for sure. When my AppleCare runs out February 2015, I'll look into a new system.

It'll either be a 17" MBP if Apple smartens up, or a Razer Blade Pro, likely.

 

[maflynn]

It'll either be a 17" MBP if Apple smartens up, or a Razer Blade Pro, likely.

Why do you say that?

Clearly if apple was making a profit on the 17" laptops they'd still be selling them. The fact they we're still seeing them in the refurb section of the apple store indicates they're not exactly selling like hot cakes.

 

[Doward]

Why do you say that?

Clearly if apple was making a profit on the 17" laptops they'd still be selling them. The fact they we're still seeing them in the refurb section of the apple store indicates they're not exactly selling like hot cakes.

There are 2010 Mac Pros in the refurb section as well. Your logic dictates that they aren't exactly selling like hot cakes.

Yet we see a sneak preview of a completely redesigned one.

There is a market for 17" portable powerhouses. Apple started that market, for goodness' sake.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the 17" rMBP is nowhere to be seen not because Apple doesn't want to make it - but because the yields on a 17" Retina aren't there yet.

Look at it this way -

13" rMBP = 2560x1600 resolution
15" rMBP = 2880x1800 resolution
(theoretical) 17" rMBP = ~3200x2000 resolution

I have yet to see anyone produce a panel of that sort of resolution.

Considering we only got a 'sneak peak' at the Mac Pro, I'm wondering if we might get a Mac Pro unveiling, maybe with a Portable Mac Pro along side?

 

[GermanyChris]

Why do you say that?

Clearly if apple was making a profit on the 17" laptops they'd still be selling them. The fact they we're still seeing them in the refurb section of the apple store indicates they're not exactly selling like hot cakes.

I think Apple couldn't source retina panels for it.

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There are 2010 Mac Pros in the refurb section as well. Your logic dictates that they aren't exactly selling like hot cakes.

Yet we see a sneak preview of a completely redesigned one.

There is a market for 17" portable powerhouses. Apple started that market, for goodness' sake.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the 17" rMBP is nowhere to be seen not because Apple doesn't want to make it - but because the yields on a 17" Retina aren't there yet.

Look at it this way -

13" rMBP = 2560x1600 resolution
15" rMBP = 2880x1800 resolution
(theoretical) 17" rMBP = ~3200x2000 resolution

I have yet to see anyone produce a panel of that sort of resolution.

Considering we only got a 'sneak peak' at the Mac Pro, I'm wondering if we might get a Mac Pro unveiling, maybe with a Portable Mac Pro along side?

Apple does pixel doubling, if they do retina it'll be 4k

 

[CARABAO]

THe difference between a Core 2 Duo and Sandy Bridge is *huge*.

The difference between Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge is not. Tick vs Tock.

Haswell should prove to be a good jump - better than Sandy to Ivy, not as good as Core 2 Duo to Sandy.

My 2.5Ghz 17" MBP with 16GB of DDR3 1600mhz ram + SSD absolutely *flies*. It eats up anything I throw at it - I run XP and 7 in VMs with 2 GB on XP and 4GB for Win7 allocated, concurrently, with FCPX encoding in the background with no issues.

I will not feel the need to upgrade until Broadwell or beyond, for sure. When my AppleCare runs out February 2015, I'll look into a new system.

It'll either be a 17" MBP if Apple smartens up, or a Razer Blade Pro, likely.

How do you run your 17" MBP with DDR3 1600mhz ram? I thought it was only good for 1333? Does it really make a difference? Curious..

 

[GermanyChris]

How do you run your 17" MBP with DDR3 1600mhz ram? I thought it was only good for 1333? Does it really make a difference? Curious..

It won't show up in About this Mac" but it'll show up in geekbench scores..There will be no day to day improvement with faster RAM.

 

[NewishMacGuy]

I would guess that 8GB RAM and a 256GB hard drive will be more limiting factors 2 years hence than the processing power difference between a Sandy Bridge i7-quad and an Ivy Bridge i7-quad or lack of USB3 and HDMI outs.

For gaming you may be better off with the rMBP-15, but for serious work two years hence, the uMBP-17 will be the platform that is less likely to be constrained (and if it is you can upgrade the drive & RAM).


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[Grohowiak]

I would guess that 8GB RAM and a 256GB hard drive will be more limiting factors 2 years hence than the processing power difference between a Sandy Bridge i7-quad and an Ivy Bridge i7-quad or lack of USB3 and HDMI outs.

For gaming you may be better off with the rMBP-15, but for serious work two years hence, the uMBP-17 will be the platform that is less likely to be constrained (and if it is you can upgrade the drive & RAM).


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+1 on this.
256GB HD is nothing and since you are concerned about future then 8GB is certainly not much especially with photoshop. Also people talking about those 17" like they are a relic of the past. Problem is you are on a apple fanboy site with people going for new and shine just because. Talking about CPU's like you do medical data processing each and every day or something in those lines. You think CPU 2.3 vs 2.7 will show any real life difference within photoshop??

If you really ask me I don't think you need any of them really You just want to buy something

 

[Doward]

It won't show up in About this Mac" but it'll show up in geekbench scores..There will be no day to day improvement with faster RAM.

Incorrect on the first count. See attached.

 

[GermanyChris]

Incorrect on the first count. See attached.

Good deal!

 

[CARABAO]

if you really ask me i don't think you need any of them really :d you just want to buy something

and this too!