rMBP vs MBP. price comparison thoughts.

[phyrexia]

Ethernet's not legacy tech.

And I will openly admit to rambling somewhat tonight, what with the July 4 midweekend, but I will never be convinced that in 2012 a protocol capable of 10GBPS is legacy tech. Sorry. Won't happen.

And I am in the college crowd. 17" MBP does not seem too heavy. I walk from my house to my classes

 

[gokart mozart]

Ethernet's not legacy tech.

And I will openly admit to rambling somewhat tonight, what with the July 4 midweekend, but I will never be convinced that in 2012 a protocol capable of 10GBPS is legacy tech. Sorry. Won't happen.

wired internet connectivity = legacy

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I like moving around a lot while staying connected. Otherwise, I'd get a desktop. After 5 years of owning my current black mac, I've never had to use ethernet for it. And mind giving me the name of a service provider that is peddling 10GBp/s speeds? Last I checked, the US is kind of behind on service speed. Until I need a hard connection to a network/server to transfer data at such speeds, I don't see the point in the $30 adapter. And that is likely the line of thought Apple was having when they decided to sacrifice it for thinness.

 

[phyrexia]

wire = legacy

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I like moving around a lot while staying connected. After 5 years of owning my current black mac, I've never had to use ethernet for it. Until I need to a hard connection to a network, I don't see the point in the $30 adapter.

I will always be able to give multiple examples where WiFi simply won't cut it. I have set up numerous networks in which a combination of construction design and wifi overcrowding left all forms of 2.4GHZ Wifi completely useless for HTPC purposes. In many cases, only a cable is good enough to watch 720p over a LAN. Wifi can crap out over something like 15-20ft under the right circumstances. Sure, I can surf internets, but I can do that tethered to my android phone in a 2g network too.

I reckon if you have never indulged in a 1GBPS LAN, you don't know what you're missing. Of course if said network had a bunch of slow hard drives in use, you wouldn't be able to tell.

I myself saturate 2.4GHZ, 5GHZ, and 1GBPS wired ethernet on a regular basis. Seeing ~90MB/s transfer speeds during a local FTP transfer is a wonderful thing. And impossible without a wire, today.

Anyway, the rMBP does gigE. I'm not worried about that aspect

PS, I turned 28 two weeks ago. S.T.F.U. about your generational gap

 

[pandamonia]

Of course not. Do some research. The most expensive RAM available on Newegg != the best, fastest ram on NewEgg. I am showing more expensive products mostly in an effort to prove some sort of point

1600mhz RAM on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0000410&IsNodeId=1&name=DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (less than my listed $129 ftr.)

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I am relatively well versed in the differences between the two drives, and I am aware there is more to an SSD than transfer speed. I would have no problem believing the M4 is half the speed of an 830, if such a benchmark existed (but I do not believe one could show me such a benchmark). I can't find anything that says anything near that. I do find lots of happy reviewers and relatively high throughput. I am of course open to new information.

I was under the impression the bigger SSDs gained speed compared to the smaller drives. My 830 reads superfast but is not so fast at write speeds because it is only a 64gb drive.


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Here is the anantech review of the M4: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4253/the-crucial-m4-micron-c400-ssd-review

User Capacity 59.6GiB 119.2GiB 238.4GiB 476.8GiB
Random Read Performance 40K IOPS 40K IOPS 40K IOPS 40K IOPS
Random Write Performance 20K IOPS 35K IOPS 50K IOPS 50K IOPS
Sequential Read Performance Up to 415MB/s Up to 415MB/s Up to 415MB/s Up to 415MB/s
Sequential Write Performance Up to 95MB/s Up to 175MB/s Up to 260MB/s Up to 260MB/s

These speeds are completely respectable and many of the speeds can't be doubled without bottlenecking the SATAIII interface.

Has anyone benchmarked the RMBP SSD? Does anyone know who the OEM for the drive is? (Is it a relabeled and enclosed 830?)

The benches i looked at showed an average 50% performance benefit in most areas. Also lets not forget how bad the M4 handles once its been filled up. Its garbage collection is poor and you can literally kill the performance.

OSX only supports trim for Apple drives and hacking support has caused serious issues on many drives.

Even Anandtech say they are unhappy with the M4 performance once all the blocks have been written to.

It sounds to me like your just trying to convince yourself the MBP is a better buy than the rMPB. If you convince others then your not on your own.

 

[phyrexia]

The benches i looked at showed an average 50% performance benefit in most areas. Also lets not forget how bad the M4 handles once its been filled up. Its garbage collection is poor and you can literally kill the performance.

OSX only supports trim for Apple drives and hacking support has caused serious issues on many drives.

Even Anandtech say they are unhappy with the M4 performance once all the blocks have been written to.

It sounds to me like your just trying to convince yourself the MBP is a better buy than the rMPB. If you convince others then your not on your own.

Frankly I have no vested interest. I have no desire for an RMBP. My 17" is the nicest computer I've ever owned or operated, and after owning it for a year I am happier than I was when I first bought the thing. For gaming I think the RMBP is ahead of its time, and for development and everyday use, 1920x1200 is just fine for me, with no realistic differences. (I can't see pixels on my 17" screen unless I nose up to the screen.) I am very prone to getting excited about new tech. Make no mistake

I'd go so far as to say I do not want a 15" laptop, regardless of features (although the right price might turn me ) For me the differences between the 17" and the 15" are completely, absolutely negligible. The differences, then, all lean in favor of the 17". But I digress.

Mainly, I am concerned with the manufacturing process and the lack of upgradability, despite the fact I don't care about upgradeability on either of my $800 iPads.

Further, it's an interesting conversation (when people refrain from getting pissed off. Thank you for remaining civil whilst arguing with me )

I would venture to say just as an end user cannot tell between 1333 and 1600mhz ram, most owners of RMBPs would be unable to tell if their SSDs were transferring at 500mb/s or 250mb/s, since either figure is such a drastic increase from what most users are accustomed too.

 

[gokart mozart]

It sounds to me like your just trying to convince yourself the MBP is a better buy than the rMPB. If you convince others then your not on your own.

For him it probably is. Apple clearly didn't build the retina model in mind for users that still need ethernet to do their work. Then again, he could just get the adapter.

 

[phyrexia]

Like I said, way more concerned with the hard drive and the RAM than the ethernet. (Thunderbolt and I are buddies.) But I do take exception to the claim that ethernet is legacy. DVD is more legacy than Ethernet in the real world.

 

[gokart mozart]

Like I said, way more concerned with the hard drive and the RAM than the ethernet. (Thunderbolt and I are buddies.) But I do take exception to the claim that ethernet is legacy. DVD is more legacy than Ethernet in the real world.

I would certainly agree with that.

But seriously, you take "exception" to it? Is it really worth getting worked up over? A lot of users never even use ethernet cables for their laptops anymore, hence why Apple saw fit to sacrifice it. Calling it legacy tech was strong on my part, but hardly worth getting upset over. Plenty of good tech gets cast aside simply because the mainstream user population doesn't utilize it. Doesn't necessarily mean it is bad tech. It simply isn't utilized as much as it once was, and many will not notice its absence.

And you're right on the SSDs. Most users wont notice the difference between a slightly older SSD and a newer one with faster read and write speeds. Most are coming from HDDs still, and will be grateful for the performance of any SSD. But if you know what you're buying, and if you're working with large enough amounts of data, I would think you'd opt for your fastest option in the end (assuming its in the budget).

 

[phyrexia]

Well, exception is a relatively strong word. I raise my eyebrows at the notion, is that better?

I guess I'm mainly referring to the fact that in the business world, ethernet is in its prime with room to expand capacity. Six Newcastles ago I may have made that more clear

I would certainly agree with that.

But seriously, you take "exception" to it? Is it really worth getting worked up over? A lot of users never even use ethernet cables for their laptops anymore, hence why Apple saw fit to sacrifice it. Calling it legacy tech was strong on my part, but hardly worth getting upset over.

I agree. I just don't think ethernet is in this group of tech. For the Apple demographic, though, it may well be. I can definitely see your point.

I don't know much about 802.11S. Maybe it will bridge the gaps. I am looking forward to playing with that tech, anyway.

Plenty of good tech gets cast aside simply because the mainstream user population doesn't utilize it. Doesn't necessarily mean it is bad tech. It simply isn't utilized as much as it once was, and many will not notice its absence.

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what i mean to say re: ethernet: do you see datacenters utilizing wifi? do you see business or corporate installations relying on wifi? do you still see new residential buildings being wired with cat5e? (ok, the last question isn't quite rhetorical, I don't know the answer.)

 

[gokart mozart]

Six Newcastles ago I may have made that more clear

Several Leffes ago, I probably wouldn't have insinuated you were an old IT fart for wanting ethernet

what i mean to say re: ethernet: do you see datacenters utilizing wifi? do you see business or corporate installations relying on wifi? do you still see new residential buildings being wired with cat5e? (ok, the last question isn't quite rhetorical, I don't know the answer.)

Obviously, no on the data centers. Yes, in quite a few businesses actually. Not their IT/server side, obviously. But I also don't see the majority of Apple's customers working in data centers. Which, I guess was my point. They are aiming for mainstream customers and moving away from the "Pro"s that the MBPs were meant for in the first place.

 

[phyrexia]

Several Leffes ago, I probably wouldn't have insinuated you were an old IT fart for wanting ethernet

I am very relieved I'm not the only one

And to think, after 8 years of putting off college and working in the music biz, I'm still 22 months out from having the ol' BS: CS.

 

[RoelJuun]

The SSD IS twice as fast. Crucial M4 is OLD in SSD terms. in 2011 SSD speeds literally doubled. Check Anandtech.com hes pretty good at SSD reviews and benchmarks. Even though its 512gb vs 256GB where the 512gb suffers vs the 256gb size drives.

Also no Trim support in OSX for the M4 which means you can literally grind to a halt on the M4

Why do you think a M4 is almost half the price of a Samsung 830? or a Vertex 4?

I am ordering my Retina Pro sometime this month

That's kinda weird, here (in the Netherlands) the Samsung costs less. Samsung 830, 256 gig is €165. Crucial M4 256 gig is €185,50. And on 128 gig, Samsung €93 vs €106 for Crucial M4.

On 512 gig the Crucial is cheaper, €359 vs €399 for Samsung. But 'half the price'…nope not really.

 

[pandamonia]

Frankly I have no vested interest. I have no desire for an RMBP. My 17" is the nicest computer I've ever owned or operated, and after owning it for a year I am happier than I was when I first bought the thing. For gaming I think the RMBP is ahead of its time, and for development and everyday use, 1920x1200 is just fine for me, with no realistic differences. (I can't see pixels on my 17" screen unless I nose up to the screen.) I am very prone to getting excited about new tech. Make no mistake

I'd go so far as to say I do not want a 15" laptop, regardless of features (although the right price might turn me ) For me the differences between the 17" and the 15" are completely, absolutely negligible. The differences, then, all lean in favor of the 17". But I digress.

Mainly, I am concerned with the manufacturing process and the lack of upgradability, despite the fact I don't care about upgradeability on either of my $800 iPads.

Further, it's an interesting conversation (when people refrain from getting pissed off. Thank you for remaining civil whilst arguing with me )

I would venture to say just as an end user cannot tell between 1333 and 1600mhz ram, most owners of RMBPs would be unable to tell if their SSDs were transferring at 500mb/s or 250mb/s, since either figure is such a drastic increase from what most users are accustomed too.

So what is the point in the thread if you have no interest in a rMBP? FFS!

 

[phyrexia]

So what is the point in the thread if you have no interest in a rMBP? FFS!

Stop being so angry! You seem to have a vested interest in convincing me to buy an RMBP!

This is, after all, a discussion forum. I enjoy discussing.

 

[professorjay]

I have an elaborate spreadsheet breaking down the costs and comparisons when making this difficult decision. Initially the rMBP seems like the easy choice, but...

IMHO, I think AppleCare is a must have for the rMBP. I don't mind taking my chances w/ the cMBP. That raises the price for the rMBP. Plus after 3 yrs the rMBP will probably be more expensive for repairs if it arises. There is a bigger 'risk' factor there. Again IMHO.

If you're buying AppleCare (or not) regardless of the model then the above won't apply to you. And if you only plan on keeping the computer for 2-3 yrs the above probably won't matter to you either.

I'm going to wait for the 2012's to hit the refurb store. But so far I'm leaning towards the cMBP because of the reasons I listed.