Rogers' iPhone Exclusivity in Canada to End Next Month?

[candan9019]

(ie beyond sub-companies Fido and Telus).

Telus is not a sub-company, it is a completely separate company. So Canada currently has three major carriers.

I've heard that Bell and Telus are somehow related (owned by parent company or something like that). Can anyone verify?

They have a cost sharing agreement to build out HSDPA, they did a similar sharing agreement with CDMA because Telus has more towers in the west and Bell in the east.

Both are still separate companies.

 

[Stella]

From Wiki:
High Speed Packet Access (HSPA)[1] is a collection of two mobile telephony protocols High Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA) and High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA), that extend and improve the performance of existing WCDMA protocols. A further standard, Evolved HSPA (also known as HSPA+), is soon to be released.


--

Thanks - I thought HSPA was created by both GSM and CDMA groups.

HSPA brings both GSM and CDMA together.. its an evolution of both networks, Calling it "GSM" is kind of confusing because people will think that they'll be able to use their existing CDMA or GSM phone.. which may not be the case.

Yes it is 3G GSM. Google is your friend. There are several different generations of GSM. Some countries decided to skip 2G (Edge) and go directly to HSPA or UTMS which are both 3G GSM standards. The iPhone supports both HSPA/HSDPA and UTMS networks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access

http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/specs.html


This page shows what Telus and Bell are offering soon:
http://www.gsmworld.com/ROAMING/GSMINFO/cou_ca.shtml

Note that it is from the GSM standards group and that they list Bell and Telus as offering GSM soon?

 

[mdthomas8]

Yes - Finally!!!!

Finally - it has been announced...


Bell Canada press statement


MISSISSAUGA, ON, Oct. 6 2009 -- Bell and Apple have reached an
agreement to bring iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS to Canada this November.
To learn more about Bell's new 3G network, please visit bell.ca/network
or bell.ca/reseau.

Bell is Canada's largest communications company, providing consumers and
business with solutions to all their communications needs, including Bell
Mobility wireless, high-speed Bell Internet, Bell TV direct-to-home satellite
television, Bell Home phone local and long distance, and IP-broadband and
information and communications technology (ICT) services. Bell is proud to be
a Premier National Partner and the exclusive Telecommunications Partner to
the Vancouver 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.
Bell is wholly owned by BCE Inc. (TSX, NYSE: BCE). For information on
Bell's products and services, please visit bell.ca. For BCE corporate
information, please visit bce.ca.


For further information: For media inquires: Julie Smithers, Bell Media
Relations, (416) 528-9409, julie.smithers@bell.ca

 

[edesignuk]

Bell nabs iPhone deal in Canada, ends Rogers' reign of terror - Engadget.

 

[jonnysods]

Here's what I read in one article:

"Neither Bell nor Telus would confirm that they would add the iPhone to their lineups. Apple also declined to comment."

I hope this isn't true though - Rogers need to feel the heat, not just a little, but a lot from their competitors. I am so tired of their trickery, and hieroglyphic-like invoices that add strange charges, and then on the same invoice give you a credit for them, and then tout that they had given you savings that month, amounting to the credit they gave you.

I would never give Bell my business directly either, but Telus has very good voice & data plans. Just wondering how they will stack up as they need to pay for their new network.

Good things are in the air though! I can't wait for the other new carrier to sweep into town soon as well.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Who knows.

After living for over 20 years in Asia, I don't see Japan changing all that quickly. Although I would love to be wrong.

Well, the sale of the Post Office by the last government was a good first step so that politicians no longer use the savings rich Post Office as a piggy bank to fund pork barrelling to win elections. It is going to take a while - eventually the governments hand will be pushed as the mounting crisis's come together into a single crisis.

Declining and ageing population, high public debt, massive budget deficit, a homogeneous society that is going to have to get used to the idea of immigration and multiculturalism to make up for the short fall in young people. It'll hit Japan like a freight train - the response will be interesting to watch.

 

[Stella]

Although more competition would be good, I'm personally hoping this will force Robbers / Fido prices down across the board due to extra competition from the other two ( and the new competition coming 2010 ).

Having an iPhone on Telus / Bell isn't as good as Rogers - on Rogers, the iPhone will fall back to Edge / GPRS ( none 3G GSM ) upon poor reception, but on Telus / Bell - it will fall back to CDMA, but the iPhone won't because it only supports HSPA / regular GSM.

 

[dmcdan0]

I kind of like the exclusivity that Apple was going with. It made the iPhone something to be desired. I fear that this deal with Bell (puke) and Telus (yet to be announced?) especially will make the iPhone so popular it won't be cool anymore. Bell carries the BlackBerry, and there is nothing cool about that.

I like the iPhone and all Apple products, but if everyone has one, I'd rather be the guy without one.
Just "Thinking Different" everyone.

 

[RJones]

Bell and Telus have been building a GSM network and the have alreday been testing in some areas. Here in Ottawa I have been picking up a mysterious numbered network for a few months now. I can send a pic when I get on my Mac at home.

Weird that you mention that. I live out past Kanata, in the spot where I go past the Rogers coverage, I as well see the numbered network.

 

[SAN66]

AFAIK - Rogers never signed exclusivity with Apple, they just positioned themselves as the only GSM/HSPA provider in Canada and thus the only provider that could offer the iPhone. But with this new network things will change.

Its nice that the wireless industry in Canada is changing. This new Bellus network and the new players that will come to the market in the upcoming year should introduce some healthy competition (Though none of the new players can offer the iPhone due to technical constraints).

Once this is in full play, maybe we can start to see some reform in the broadband and television sectors.

Weird that you mention that. I live out past Kanata, in the spot where I go past the Rogers coverage, I as well see the numbered network.

Same in Barrhaven, and it only shows up when I enable 3G. Seems to be better coverage than my Rogers. Hopefully I get a better signal than Rogers, with only 1 or 2 bars at home. Anyone know if there's any way to test that?

 

[GGGUUUYYY]

Yes. This will hopefully bring out a price war between the three companies.

 

[profets]

Having an iPhone on Telus / Bell isn't as good as Rogers - on Rogers, the iPhone will fall back to Edge / GPRS ( none 3G GSM ) upon poor reception, but on Telus / Bell - it will fall back to CDMA, but the iPhone won't because it only supports HSPA / regular GSM.

yes, but what if bell/telus' HSPA network has better coverage than Rogers 2G-GSM network to begin with?

 

[profets]

Yes. This will hopefully bring out a price war between the three companies.

honestly, these 3 companies all end up copying each other in prices and nothing changes.. look at the data options on any of their websites.. all the same $25/500MB, $30/1GB, same flex data packages.. probably bell and telus will even introduce a $30/somewhat unlimited data package for iphone users too

 

[notjustjay]

I kind of like the exclusivity that Apple was going with. It made the iPhone something to be desired. I fear that this deal with Bell (puke) and Telus (yet to be announced?) especially will make the iPhone so popular it won't be cool anymore. Bell carries the BlackBerry, and there is nothing cool about that.

I like the iPhone and all Apple products, but if everyone has one, I'd rather be the guy without one.
Just "Thinking Different" everyone.

Well, in my opinion that's a pretty weak reason for wanting an iPhone in the first place, but go ahead and be the guy that's different just for the sake of being different.

If I get one, it'll be for th convenience of having all those handy apps, as well as my music, access to wireless internet, GPS, and a gazillion other reasons. "Looking cool in front of my friends" isn't on that list.

In fact I would have bought a 3GS already except that I still can't get over the expense. Right now my cell phone plan is through Fido and I'm paying $27+tax per month (with the system access fee). I'm also NOT on a contract. To jump to an iPhone would mean doubling the fee to $60/month and signing a 3-year contract. And, outside of the "limited time 6GB data special promotion", that $60/month only gets you FIVE HUNDRED MEGABYTES of data!

I really hope that with some added competition, they will drop the price, or at least make the data plan reasonable.

As a data point, I have a friend on Telus pay-as-you-go who is paying $10/month for unlimited "mobile" internet. Sure it's not the "real" internet, but.. she's got access to a lot more than I do right now.

 

[Maury]

It is going to take some time before Tellus or Bell can even handle the iPhone, as both are CDMA carriers. Rogers/Fido only had it because they were/are the only GSM carrier(s) in Canada. This also leads credence to the rumor of T-Mobile Canada starting early next year.

Actually, no to all of this. Bell is indeed CDMA, but Telus had a whole lot of PCS as their western backbone. This is very annoying to Telus, because when everyone shows up for the Vancouver Olympics, they would have been giving all their roaming dollars to Rogers, the only GSM carrier.

As it is clear everyone is moving to GSM/HPDA/LTE, both companies were in the uncomfortable position of having to spend billions to upgrade their networks to compete with a system Rogers already had. So they agreed to work together, with Telus upgrading in the west and Bell in the east (sort of) and sharing the lines with no crossover fees (or roaming?).

So over the last year they poured in a collective billion dollars, and much to my surprise, are ready to launch an all HPDA network. Very impressive. I'm not sure if that gets them any roaming, or perhaps they're also setting up 1st gen GSM as well. But in any event, Canada is well on the road to all-GSM at last.

Maury

 

[mBox]

Yes. This will hopefully bring out a price war between the three companies.

So glad I didnt upgrade to 3GS, now Ill just run this contract out and see what the future brings

 

[Lara F]

Canada's coverage, carriers, and plans are all quite shocking. I travel to Toronto for business and can't believe the amount Canadians pay for mobile services.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to pricing after Rogers and Bell get some real competitors (ie beyond sub-companies Fido and Telus). WindMobile and Public Mobile launching should help normalize mobile prices. (And maybe then I'll be able to get a travel prepaid plan that doesn't come with a $100 setup fee)

Until that day Canadians will have to stay bent over to receive their 'service'.

Can I ask what plan you're using? I grew up in Canada and travel back routinely so I bought a PAYG sim card from Rogers (I'm unlocked). But I was told there was absolutely no PAYG data plan available for the iPhone. That said, $100 is a lot for the odd visit...

To compare my Rogers card cost $40 and I had to add $10 worth of credit before I could call. When I tested my unlock T-Mobile sold me a card for $10 which already included minutes.

 

[GGGUUUYYY]

honestly, these 3 companies all end up copying each other in prices and nothing changes.. look at the data options on any of their websites.. all the same $25/500MB, $30/1GB, same flex data packages.. probably bell and telus will even introduce a $30/somewhat unlimited data package for iphone users too

I can only hope for changes. Not much else i can do.

 

[newConvert]

I'm with Fido, and I pay $70 / month for the following:

- 100 min
- Unlimited Early Evenings (5pm) & Weekends
- 6GB Data / Month
- IPhone Value Pack (visual voicemail.. caller id.. etc)

I wouldn't call $70 / month excessive at all.. it's better than what most of my friends pay each month for there much older phones.. with crappier plans. To go over the entry level 500MB plan each month you have to do a **** load of downloading... but then you can usually find a wifi hotspot to use in the city. Only reason I opted for the 6GB plan.. was so I could tether if needed. What a great feature.

The plans that Rogers debuted the iPhone at were insane... these days.. I think they are quite reasonable... especially if you are going with Fido.

just saying... could be worse... we could have to use At&t....

I've got the exact same plan, with fido, except my evenings start at 7... how'd you get them to start at 5? was it a special promo? If not I may have to badger them to give me 5pm, then that would be awesome.

 

[Stella]

iPhone users in Canada pay around 1.5 extra than the none iPhone user in Canada... there's a reason for that - Rogers high pricing. I'm glad you like being elitist, but not everyone likes being ripped off.

I kind of like the exclusivity that Apple was going with. It made the iPhone something to be desired. I fear that this deal with Bell (puke) and Telus (yet to be announced?) especially will make the iPhone so popular it won't be cool anymore. Bell carries the BlackBerry, and there is nothing cool about that.

I like the iPhone and all Apple products, but if everyone has one, I'd rather be the guy without one.
Just "Thinking Different" everyone.

yes, but what if bell/telus' HSPA network has better coverage than Rogers 2G-GSM network to begin with?

Then that would be great and there would be no issue, but thats sometime in the future...

honestly, these 3 companies all end up copying each other in prices and nothing changes.. look at the data options on any of their websites.. all the same $25/500MB, $30/1GB, same flex data packages.. probably bell and telus will even introduce a $30/somewhat unlimited data package for iphone users too

Agreed - IMO, The iPhone rates may come down a little, but not significantly.. $5 or $10 off the existing Rogers pricing from Bellus. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of price fixing going on between the big 3.. Rogers are one of the most profitable carriers in the world... and it isn 't due to their great services.

 

[profets]

I can only hope for changes. Not much else i can do.

i agree.. and also hope that a company like Wind Mobile can bring some change as well

 

[profets]

Then that would be great and there would be no issue, but thats sometime in the future...

thats the point of this network launch though huge $$$ has gone into it, and it sounds like this coverage will be ready from day 1, not at sometime in the future. anyway, its not far away, so we'll be able to see it soon enough

 

[dornoforpyros]

Well on the surface the idea of "competition" for the iPhone in Canada seems great, the fact is none of these three are going to start a price war. Telus & Bell built their new network together, do you really think they are going to try under cutting eachother?

Best case senario, Telus/Bell cut prices by a small amount (I'm guessing no system access fee) and then rogers will follow suit. And the tri-opoly in Canada will continue for another year until the new cell phone companies start getting going. Although I guess Wind mobile is suppose to start up next month here, just no iPhone from what I know.

 

[brockm]

It's worth nothing that the Telus and Bell 3G GSM rollout is, in fact, 3G only. It's an HSDPA overlay on their CDMA networks. That means there is no EDGE or GPRS fallback for them like on Rogers or AT&T. It will be 3G or bust.

It's hard to believe they'd be launching the phone without an ability for it to operate outside of 3G, unless Bell and Telus have managed to completely bathe the entire country with HSDPA support on all their towers.

It is at all possible, that Telus and Bell will have a new worldphone version of the iPhone, that will support basic CDMA for voice, with HSDPA for 3G data?

You can't overlay GPRS or EDGE on a CDMA network, because they are both TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) based technologies. They would need their own spectrum.

However, you can overlay HSDPA on an EVDO network, because they are both CDMA-based technology, and special technology can allow them to interplay on shared spectrum. For this reason, it's safe to assume that if it's the same iPhone sold everywhere else, being used on Telus or Bell, and you go into your phone and turn off 3G, you'll get "No Signal".

 

[profets]

It's worth nothing that the Telus and Bell 3G GSM rollout is, in fact, 3G only. It's an HSDPA overlay on their CDMA networks. That means there is no EDGE or GPRS fallback for them like on Rogers or AT&T. It will be 3G or bust.

It's hard to believe they'd be launching the phone without an ability for it to operate outside of 3G, unless Bell and Telus have managed to completely bathe the entire country with HSDPA support on all their towers.

It is at all possible, that Telus and Bell will have a new worldphone version of the iPhone, that will support basic CDMA for voice, with HSDPA for 3G data?

nope.. bell/telus have deployed full nationwide UMTS/HSPA+ 21mbps network.. bascially is supposed to cover everything that their cdma/evdo network covers now. anyone getting an iphone or other hspa phone on bell/telus is going to be in 3G coverage all the time. should be interesting