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Rogue Amoeba Retreats from iPhone Development Over App Store Policies
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Looks like some of these apologists don't even read the developers side. In fact, I'd count on that fact.
w00master
This is becoming an epidemic of developers that are upset with Apple's App review process. I have no problem with Apple reviewing Apps, as it increases security for us users, BUT I think Apple needs to COMPLETELY overhaul their App process. There is no way in heck that it should take three months for a follow-up review of an App that they have already delayed. Three months is completely unacceptable in the rest of the world, and this looks VERY bad for Apple. Apple needs to COMPLETELY redo their completely inefficient app-review process, and get back up with the standards that the rest of the world operates on. If it took me three months to do anything, I would never have graduated college. They gave us due dates, and we did our work! It works the same way at my job. People aren't given three months to get things done. Apple gets an "F" on this one! "A day late, a penny short."
Obviously the images are copyrighted by Apple, and those images they don't want people using. Ok, well, that is their rights, they designed them and copyrighted them. Either they have to license those images from Apple (which I doubt Apple would do) or make their own. Just like every other copyright, you don't have the right to breech. If Apple doesn't defend their copyright, then they can lose it, so they HAVE to fight for it.
It's just not that cut-and-dried. Apple even provided an API to access these images under Mac OS X. So, seems they do want people using them.
Again... you clearly did not read the developer's side.
Btw, those "copyrighted images?" Programmers use them all the time on OS X. Why? Because THEY'RE FROM OS X APIs.
w00master
RA didn't break any copywright laws. Those images are broadcast by OS X specifically so other computers can dislplay them.
Just to be clear, if RA had made an application for a Macbook that displayed these images, that's ok. Because they made the application for an iPhone instead, it's not ok.
Does that make sense to anyone?
In a sense, yes. The rules for iPhone development are different than for Mac OS X. I may not always agree with it but there you have it.
I don't think you understand the specifics of the situation. Go back and read it again.
In a sense, yes. The rules for iPhone development are different than for Mac OS X. I may not always agree with it but there you have it.
The problem is that they have broken no rules. The data being sent to display the images is coming from the Mac. Rogue Amoeba is following the rules of the SDK.
Please be more specific when you say "wrong", in what way?
Apple owns the rights to their intellectual property, this includes images and icons of their products that they have created.
However, let me be clear here... I think Apple's "stance" regarding this is "wrong". Rogue Amoeba has enriched the user experience by providing an accurate representation of the source. This should have been resolved when Apple looked into it on more than the surface level.
Except in this case, they still didn't break the rules. Nothing in the SDK prohibits what they did. (Gruber's reply to Jeff LaMarche sums it up very nicely — I know it's already been linked to be I think it needs repeating)
YES, Apple can reject an app for any reason they see fit. But this is getting ridiculous. I haven't cared about any of the apps made by developers that have so far jumped ship, but one of these days it is going to be one of the ones I care about, and I'm not looking forward to it.
Buckets of Dollars? Where?
Where are you getting this information from, fact or rumor?
While it is true that SOME apps have taken off and earn big bucks, most of the apps do not. But that's the perception that Apple wants you to think, so they can lure new developers in, and only to frustrate them with Apple's review process.
I hope this begins a domino effect to MAKE Apple rethink the entire review process - but, sadly, it probably won't.
Dan
Where are you getting this information from, fact or rumor?
While it is true that SOME apps have taken off and earn big bucks, most of the apps do not. But that's the perception that Apple wants you to think, so they can lure new developers in, and only to frustrate them with Apple's review process.
I hope this begins a domino effect to MAKE Apple rethink the entire review process - but, sadly, it probably won't.
Dan
So they "knew" they were Right after being told otherwise.
If I remember correctly, apps that get rejected multiple times experiment unusual delays in the approval process.
Maybe they have never developed software for a client and so it is their way or else. Sad.
If you want to develop for the highly rewarding AppStore you have to come to grips with the fact that it is a combination of both models -there is a client, Apple, and there are customers. Fail to please any of them at your own risk.
On the other hand, new openings in a crowded marketplace are more of a good thing for everybody. Farewell, strong-headed developers!
If I remember correctly, apps that get rejected multiple times experiment unusual delays in the approval process.
Maybe they have never developed software for a client and so it is their way or else. Sad.
If you want to develop for the highly rewarding AppStore you have to come to grips with the fact that it is a combination of both models -there is a client, Apple, and there are customers. Fail to please any of them at your own risk.
On the other hand, new openings in a crowded marketplace are more of a good thing for everybody. Farewell, strong-headed developers!
So they "knew" they were Right after being told otherwise.
If I remember correctly, apps that get rejected multiple times experiment unusual delays in the approval process.
Maybe they have never developed software for a client and so it is their way or else. Sad.
If you want to develop for the highly rewarding AppStore you have to come to grips with the fact that it is a combination of both models -there is a client, Apple, and there are customers. Fail to please any of them at your own risk.
On the other hand, new openings in a crowded marketplace are more of a good thing for everybody. Farewell, strong-headed developers!
The difference is with a client I can show them a prototype, or mock up, prior to having to put all the resources into creating a fully functioning app.
In the app store, when I have an idea for an app, I can't pre-screen it with Apple. I just have to write the damned thing, submit it, and take my chances.
I don't think they broke any rules either (hence my "I may not agree with it" comment) but I was just pointing out the fact that you can't argue, in a general way, that it doesn't make sense to be allowed to do something on the Mac but not on the iPhone. They do have a different set of rules.
Apple set up a review process to control the quality of the apps hitting the app store.
Then they fill it with junk anyway.
We have tried to create a serious simple life tool called VoCal - Voice Calendar and after months of silly standards from apple, and review rules that make it hard for us to provide a good service to our customers, not to mention the length of time to get an app reviewed, we have decided to pull 90% of our efforts away from Apple development and work on the Windows Platform where freedom is the key. We will launch our new innovative software for windows gamers very soon.
Yes it was nice of Apple to invite us to create apps and they have shared the wealth of the success but the amount of frustration at the review process and Apples non common sensical rules have never helped. Their ability to make people jump the queues in both reviews and in ordering tickets to the events were the final straw for us.
Apple make gorgeous products yet working with them can be an ugly experience.
Then they fill it with junk anyway.
We have tried to create a serious simple life tool called VoCal - Voice Calendar and after months of silly standards from apple, and review rules that make it hard for us to provide a good service to our customers, not to mention the length of time to get an app reviewed, we have decided to pull 90% of our efforts away from Apple development and work on the Windows Platform where freedom is the key. We will launch our new innovative software for windows gamers very soon.
Yes it was nice of Apple to invite us to create apps and they have shared the wealth of the success but the amount of frustration at the review process and Apples non common sensical rules have never helped. Their ability to make people jump the queues in both reviews and in ordering tickets to the events were the final straw for us.
Apple make gorgeous products yet working with them can be an ugly experience.
Again, as I have said previously, the way these images/icons came about was USING OS X APIs.
That's how they're wrong.
w00master
Exactly. Losing the maker of the Facebook app and Rouge Amoeba in one day is really bad.
I don't know about you, but I have done it many, many times, and I have never encountered a client who doesn't want at the end to tweak and add and tweak and sometimes reject, then conditionally approve, their way to deployment.
In a sense, yes. The rules for iPhone development are different than for Mac OS X. I may not always agree with it but there you have it.
Exactly, they are technically different operating systems. But even so, just because an OS gives you access to specific images, doesn't give you the rights to take them and use them for something else. Obviously RA had to pull the image from the API and then save it to another file and use it in their iPhone application. Just because it is accessible via API doesn't mean it is free to use. The API is free to use, the data is not.
Example. You buy a CD of a song, you can play it on your CD player. You can use it all you want in your CD player, but try ripping that song off (ie copying the image from the API) and using it in a movie you're making.. Guess what, you can't.