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Roku CEO Calls Apple TV a 'Money Loser', Says Product is 'Essentially' an Accessory for iPad
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Well, I have both Roku and Apple TV and use my Apple TV much more (pretty much 100% of the time), mostly due to iTunes integration. Otherwise, the boxes are very similar for the major streaming products.
I don't really use it for iPad at all. Meh.
I don't really use it for iPad at all. Meh.
Funny, my Roku 2 has been sitting below my Apple TV since I don't use it. I think the last time I used it was to stream Hulu when my last Apple TV broke (it was under that silent Wi-Fi recall) almost a year ago.
The reason it sits unused? The Apple TV has a much better interface. Plus, the Roku is super slow. Probably the only reason they are used so much is they are cheap and always on sale.
The reason it sits unused? The Apple TV has a much better interface. Plus, the Roku is super slow. Probably the only reason they are used so much is they are cheap and always on sale.
Fair enough,
However for me personally. I have tried using plex AND XMBC with all my movies/tv shows and I have not found them to be as simple to use, and without bugs as is the apple tv and it's UI. Although there are certain things I would love to see updated with the apple tv (sorting movies by date added), I wouldn't give up how it's currently set up for plex or XMBC
After setting up dozens of Apple TVs for family and work, I decided to try a Roku. It was the worst experience ever! Couldn't even get the thing working because of some bug with it. Sent it back and will never buy another non-Apple product again.
BTW this Wood guy seems jealous that the Roku is a piece of crap compared to the Apple TV.
BTW this Wood guy seems jealous that the Roku is a piece of crap compared to the Apple TV.
I bought a 1st gen Roku, but switch to ATV because the interface is SOOOOO much better and it streams absolutely effortlessly from my Mac Mini. Not to mention using it as an AirPlay device for music. Not to mention *extending* my desktop onto my giant projector screen. I guess if you use Windows some of this stuff isn't relevant, but I'd still prefer ATV on interface alone.
Granted, I'm sure newer Rokus are nicer than my old one, but the only time I fire up my Roku is to get to Amazon Prime which ATV doesn't and probably never will have.
Granted, I'm sure newer Rokus are nicer than my old one, but the only time I fire up my Roku is to get to Amazon Prime which ATV doesn't and probably never will have.
You need to provide an example of an ATV alternative with a better UI. I have a Toshiba Blu-ray player with access to most of the online-streaming sites. It was about half the price of an ATV and I thought it was a better deal. But the user experience was painfully bad - awful queue access, slow network response (we saw more of its spinning wheel than video ... I exaggerate, but it wasn't good), lagging response to the remote when pecking out the letters in search.
Then I bought an ATV a couple of weeks ago and it was like night and day. Same internet connection but we get to our Netflix queue in a second or two, using the remote app on our iPhones makes search a breeze. The Blu-ray player is back to doing what it does best, playing DVDs and BDs.
As for Roku vs ATV, I was flip-flopping on them. Roku does have a better line up, and I would need to play with the UI to decide on whether it compares, but since I have some video bought from the iTunes Store, that made the decision for me. The only thing I'd like to see on the ATV is being able to access an external HD for the content (that I own) that I ripped so I don't have to have a computer running.
Since the two devices are so cheap, I can see us having both in the future.
Why am I not at all surprised by your comment
The new ROKU interface is far better than AppleTV's and the unified search is fantastic. I remember the early days of Roku from visiting a friend and you're right -based on that I wouldn't expect much - but the platform has progressed exponentially.
Both devices are nice, but unless Apple TV opens up and allows installation of Plex or XBMC, I'll continue to use both. Plex is streaming any movie file I download. Apple TV has Airplay capabilities. Netflix seems to work better and faster on Roku 3.
Those who simply dismiss Roku because they've spent couple of minutes trying it out don't know what they're talking about. It's a great device with capabilities that are simply not offered on Apple TV. But at $100 each, having both of them shouldn't break anyone's bank.
Those who simply dismiss Roku because they've spent couple of minutes trying it out don't know what they're talking about. It's a great device with capabilities that are simply not offered on Apple TV. But at $100 each, having both of them shouldn't break anyone's bank.
For popular blockbusters, it's indeed workable - after all, a lot of people do the OCR (optical character recognition) work and upload decent (properly corrected) stuff. Of them, even rarer "extended / uncut / directors' edition" stuff could be found.
For rarer ("cult") movies, rare editions or for people wanting non-English subs, the situation may be much-much worse.
I, personally, as I know it'll only be me who watches those movies, burn the English subs (so that I understand the audio track 100%) right into the image via Handbrake. This way, I make sure I won't ever have OCR problems (all too common with current subtitle recognition engines) or a non-matching textual subtitle file found on the internet.
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... and if you don't have purchased movies from iTunes store...
What? That makes no sense at all. None of us have any idea the profit margin on the ATV. It could be positive or negative. Making assumptions that they do is wrong. Just as wrong as Woods saying they make no money on them. But if you have proof they make a "reasonable profit" I would love to see it.
LOLZ! Thanks, great find! It should be used every time someone states Apple doesn't mention / downplay other products.
"Of course", Schiller in no way mentions in which respects rMini is (far) inferior to the N7:
- screen quality (gamut) - there's absolutely no comparison, the N7 2013 has a FAR better screen WRT color gamut (=color saturation)
- price (almost two times more expensive)
- stereo speakers (they're absolutely great)
- Qi recharging (I almost never needed to use microUSB for recharging, Qi works just GREAT, even with cheap Chinese Qi pads and even in a thick case)
- USB OTG with all the goodies (mouse, memory sticks)
- NFC
- standardized BT (OBEX file exchange and all the goodies)
- DisplayPort HDMI / VGA output (way better than the quality-restricted Lightning output of the Mini)
(- much less pocketable and no one-hand usage, as opposed to the N7, which a middle/large-handed man can easily use one-handed with its thumb. Of course, this is also an advantage as the rMini's larger screen indeed makes it much-much more pleasing to use for gaming / web browsing. It, however, makes the Mini far wider than the N7, making it almost un-pocketable. For example, I can pocket my N7 in all my trousers I wear at work, while only one of them has sufficiently large back pockets for my rMini. And my N7 even has a thicker case.)
So much for Schiller's being "fair"...
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Even funnier - not that he would know - is how much the 2013 N7 is a fantastic device as well.
ETA: I had forgotten about this video. Great example of how one can perceive Apple as the one who is so "scared" that they have to downplay the competition over and over to raise their product up.
Divx/avi files can easily be re-packed (without having to re-encode the video stream) into MKV files, which almost all media boxes play (except for, of course, the ATV). As no recompression is involved, this process takes only about 1 minute for 1 Gbyte on an SSD drive.
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Yup, the N7 2013 is kinda nice. Nevertheless, I prefer to use my rMini more because of the bigger and, much more importantly, 4:3 screen. Hope Google also comes out with a 4:3 8" device with all the current features of the N7 - and with much-much smaller bezels. Then, it'd be an rMini killer.
I use my N7 mostly for video content - so the ratio doesn't bother me as much. But I hear you. I do think the build quality of the 2013 version is very nice and vastly improved from what I know about the 2012.
Yup, the learning curve can be a bit steep. However, once one masters all this, ripping and converting newly purchased discs becomes a second nature and takes VERY little (human) time and effort - say, 1-2 minutes a disc at most. (Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with it myself, either.)
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Yup, 16:10 is far more suited for video than for gaming (think of for example XCOM) or Web browsing. And those stereo speakers are GREAT in video (Youtube etc.) mode. It's a pity the rMini doesn't have truly stereo speakers. (The current configuration (stereo speakers at the bottom) can only be called "true stereo equaling or even surpassing that of the N7 2013" by blind Apple fanboys.)
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BTW, this wasn't the only occasion they've downplayed Android. In WWDC 2012 (or maybe 2013?), they talked a lot about how much better iOS as a programming platform is than Android. "Of course" they "forgot" to mention a lot of essential things - just like when Schiller "compared" the rMini to the N7 2013.
This is why i prefer the Roku currently over Apple TV myself.
I use Roku exclusively for Plex.
And I use Plex exclusively for what you're talking about. I buy my bluerays, RIP them to my Plex server, and can use Plex to watch that media in full 1080p straight from my own hard drive, DRM free to any Plex or DLNA compatible device in the house. That means, Roku's, iPads, Androids, Blackberries, Xbox's, Playstations.
It's MY media, and its available anywhere in the house I want it.
That is why the Roku, in it's current form beats out the Apple TV (which I had and sold since it can't do any of that).
is the AppleTV a bad device? not at all. But it's a closed device that as of its current iteration basically locks you into iTunes purchases. Something I don't do, nor want to be locked into myself.
as for Streaming services? Roku currently has a very large library of 3rd party apps for those who want more than just Plex. Including Netflix, Hulu, Rev3games, NHL network, ESPN, NFL network...
Here on the Wiki, you can see just how many channels you have access to.
Plus, if you do use Plex as your core media management, there are hundreds of region free, unlocked content available in the plex system (Like unlimited, complete access for free to all south park episodes, or complete episodes of Daily show and Colbert Report).
a more complete list on the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roku
When you then also compare that the Roku's can be bought as cheaply as $50 in some markets, this is a much better overall package right now than AppleTV at $99.
will this change? possibly. I'm always curious to see what tech companies come up with to challenge the competition. The Roku interface for example is not very good and when using the remote takes a while to navigate to somethings. However, Being able to fully remote control the Plex player from your phone/tablet (both iPhones and Androids) makes it a much easier and more efficient system right now.
however, I hate when CEO's and companies spokespeople have to bad talk the competition. I hated when Steve Jobs did it. I hate when the Roku CEO does it.
I disagree
I beg to differ. I occasionally use airplay (usually when sharing videos amoung friends with iOS devices).
However, I use ATV a lot. Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll. I can access my music and tv shows and 100's of movies on my macmini harddrive. That includes workout videos so I have easy/quick access. I rent movies sometimes and purchase movies on occasion. I can listen to all my music and iTunes Radio whenever.
It's WAY worth the money.
I beg to differ. I occasionally use airplay (usually when sharing videos amoung friends with iOS devices).
However, I use ATV a lot. Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll. I can access my music and tv shows and 100's of movies on my macmini harddrive. That includes workout videos so I have easy/quick access. I rent movies sometimes and purchase movies on occasion. I can listen to all my music and iTunes Radio whenever.
It's WAY worth the money.
I wanted to add as well - that as more titles become available on UltraViolet - that's another + for Roku - because it supports 3rd party providers that sync with your library (Vudu, MGO, etc)
So even if you have it ripped or the physical copy - you can still stream it if you want without having a server going.
While you can use airplay to send an app that plays ultraviolet to your Apple TV, no channels themselves have that ability on AppleTV.
So even if you have it ripped or the physical copy - you can still stream it if you want without having a server going.
While you can use airplay to send an app that plays ultraviolet to your Apple TV, no channels themselves have that ability on AppleTV.
I'm not sure why you're saying you're locked in. I rip my movies and drop them into iTunes. Same with my music. Maybe that's not an obvious use for an Apple TV?
Fair enough, but I don't really understand why people buy their movies on iTunes. Is there drm keeping them from working via plex on roku?
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Roku can do all of those things though. Aside from airplay
Because it's much-much easier than purchasing it on real discs and doing the ripping yourself. Many people give up freedom (non-DRM'ed video that can be played back on everything, unlike any movies purchased from iTunes stores), extras (foreign-language audio tracks, interviews, subs etc.) and image / audio quality for just two-click purchase & playback.
Isn't the pricing on Google play / amazon digital significantly better though?