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Roundup of Retina MacBook Pro Reviews
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On the regular MBP it most likely will be when 16GB SODIMMS are available just as 4GB and 8GB modules could be fitted to legacy MBPs. With rMBP no chance! Without upgradable RAM, it looks like the lifespan for professional use has been intentionally shortened!
Can anyone seriously say the 8GB model is aimed at power users?
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I suppose you can take Dell, Acer, HP and so on for the "right" direction. These seem to be companies that are highly successful compared to Apple
Reminds me: I did a Google search on "Dell Quad core laptop". The cheapest Dell with an equivalent CPU (2.4 GHz), upgraded to 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD was one of their "Alienware" desktop replacements for something over £2050 instead of the MBPR's £1799. 18.4" 1920x1080 screen, I did not manage to find the weight anywhere, and I didn't find the battery life anywhere, and I really looked for it, but it does have a 200 Watt power supply, where the MBPR only has 95.
Well first that would have to depend on your definition of "successful" with respect to Apple.
In terms of sheer revenue? No. Not even close.
In terms of market? Perhaps, but Apple was never a company that set out to dominate the computer market.
Alienware's 18.4 inch offering is 10 lbs and has a battery life of 1 hr 46 minutes on the least battery-intensive settings.
I think the main point here is that it's easy to deliver on one aspect of a laptop (power) if you compromise other aspects of it (thickness, battery life). What's good about Apple's engineering is that they really don't compromise in terms of performance. While they certainly aren't going to be delivering desktop-grade performance, they can make a laptop that is both thinner than other laptops and outperforms all of the ones in the same category as well.
eh?
I actually think this Wired article is more on the money:
THE NEW MACBOOK PRO: UNFIXABLE, UNHACKABLE, UNTENABLE
http://ifixit.org/2763/the-new-macbook-pro-unfixable-unhackable-untenable/#comment-1293
Oh, and NY Times article about it being superfast, enough memory to keep lots of apps open (LOL) and storage space probably havent used a good PC laptop by Asus, Alienware or MSI. Apple is really selling the Retina and "thin" factors, performance wise, spending $4000 on the PC side for a new laptop, the new MBP will get blown out of the water.
I actually think this Wired article is more on the money:
THE NEW MACBOOK PRO: UNFIXABLE, UNHACKABLE, UNTENABLE
http://ifixit.org/2763/the-new-macbook-pro-unfixable-unhackable-untenable/#comment-1293
Oh, and NY Times article about it being superfast, enough memory to keep lots of apps open (LOL) and storage space probably havent used a good PC laptop by Asus, Alienware or MSI. Apple is really selling the Retina and "thin" factors, performance wise, spending $4000 on the PC side for a new laptop, the new MBP will get blown out of the water.
Upgradeability is moot.
RAM
RAM - 8GB if use non professional software
RAM - 16GB if you use professional software
Apple offers additional 8GB for $200, even if is more expensive (by about twice) still not a great expense when you purchase a $2000 machine.
If you are a professional user you are likely to know whether you need that extra RAM or not, and if you would need more, you like to be on the "edge" of technology you are likely to buy a new machine within 2-3 years, if not earlier.
If you are not a professional user, you wouldn't care regardless.
STORAGE
External storage is cheap to buy and now there is USB3 and Thunderbolt which allow you fast transfer speed.
BATTERY
Battery last more than use to be on previous Macs, and generally better than most PCs. The glued battery last up to 5 years according to Apple and hold 3 times as much as industry standards. The price to change the battery is gone up $70 but it last 3 times more.
Are you going to keep your Mac for more than 5 years?
If yes, you will spend less in battery replacement in a year-by-year scale.
If no, all the above don't matter to you.
RAM
RAM - 8GB if use non professional software
RAM - 16GB if you use professional software
Apple offers additional 8GB for $200, even if is more expensive (by about twice) still not a great expense when you purchase a $2000 machine.
If you are a professional user you are likely to know whether you need that extra RAM or not, and if you would need more, you like to be on the "edge" of technology you are likely to buy a new machine within 2-3 years, if not earlier.
If you are not a professional user, you wouldn't care regardless.
STORAGE
External storage is cheap to buy and now there is USB3 and Thunderbolt which allow you fast transfer speed.
BATTERY
Battery last more than use to be on previous Macs, and generally better than most PCs. The glued battery last up to 5 years according to Apple and hold 3 times as much as industry standards. The price to change the battery is gone up $70 but it last 3 times more.
Are you going to keep your Mac for more than 5 years?
If yes, you will spend less in battery replacement in a year-by-year scale.
If no, all the above don't matter to you.
Precisely.
Here's a translation of a comment I posted on a geek blog:
«I'm not convinced by the new MacBook Pro Retina. At least not really.
To me the MBP Retina looks more like a "public beta" than a really optimal, ready-to-use machine. Only its screen (and possibly disk speed) are superior. This machine doesn't deserve the "Pro" moniker, considering what's missing. "Pros" need the fastest network connection they can use, and 802.11n isn't part of this club. Whatever some may say, there are a number of data sets and applications in the "Pro" world that are exclusively available on optical media. That, and the previous loss of the expansion port, which was useful for those "exotic" peripherals. Adding adapters and dongles here and there doesn't help getting a simple and convenient machine. Call me nostalgic, but I now find the pre-unibody MacBook Pro had a lot of class and was really the most polyvalent Apple laptop to date. As in "retro-chic".
SSD getting more and more common. That's good in itself. But no option to get more capacity at a reasonable price??? WTF??? Since those who would benefit the most from the Retina screen, namely, hi-definition image and movie professionals, would be stuck with only 256GB storage on the $2229 model? This is incoherent. Are we 2008 yet?
Thunderbolt? Fine, show me peripherals that actually exist in stores. Whereas FireWire800 still isn't democratized yet because of its price, we should now add not one but FOUR adapters to keep the previous, non-Retina MacBook Pro functionality: TB to FW800 (not available yet as per Apple Store), TB to Ethernet, external DVD burner, external HDD to alleviate the lack of internal storage (All no incuded in the box). Sure, we know that BluRay is hard to license, as Steve Job famously repeated it, but research is ongoing on holographic media. While we are waiting for a commercial version, BluRay is a nice and inexpensive way to distribute data, not dependent upon server disk space (typically quite pricey) and constant high-speed access. Let's not talk about the data caps.
Still 7 hours battery. What was excellent when it was introduced 3 years ago, it's a shame such a light and stripped-down laptop doesn't gain anything there. Oh wait. You're right, it shed 500g.
Mountain Lion. Hum. Have Apple solved the wifi instability issue? Power Nap. Now there will be a reason why the battery drains off while the computer is asleep for a night.
Also, there has been no word on supporting captive portals or RADIUS authentication during installation. These so-authenticated networks are usually the fastest by far, and thus, the most desirable for downloading a large installation file.
Strangely, still no 3G inside to tout the computer as "ultra-mobile". Isn't it contradictory that Apple wants the consumer to have every kind of devices it makes but at the same time promotes thinness as the ultimate goal? Wouldn't it be more logical if the devices and computers retained functionality and flexibility while shedding weight?
All in iCloud? Well. Files that "Pro" uses typically come from applications not integrated with iCloud. And where does the assumption that every one of us have access, 100% of the time, to high speed Internet, comes from???
I feel deceived. What is still pro-oriented in that new MacBook Pro?»
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Completely disagree! Upgradability is essential, at least in my field. Although I do agree with you that the 8Gb is not suitable for professional use due to its limited RAM. Not sure why it retains the 'Pro' in its marketing?
I don't no what memory requirements I will have in two years time? But I'm pretty sure I will need more! 16Gb SODIMMS will no doubt be available then further extending the life of the machine. The ability have lots of memory and add this over time is a defining feature of power laptops and desktops. I can't see how the loss of this feature can be defended in any way?
In the past I could justify the purchase price based on the machine being suitable for power use for 4+ years. With even the 16Gb rMBP this will be 3 at best. In effect even more of a whapping price increase.
As a side note. Apple charge double the market rate for RAM? On what grounds can this be defended? Since it doesn't have nice packaging and you can't see it, perhaps it smells nicer?
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If apple offered a rMBP with no connectivity ports then by the same logic this would be a viable model. In two years time when the user needs a thunderbolt drive, simple just replace the mac...
Wow. The ethernet lovers just don't quit. I got news for you...if you need built-in ethernet and built-in optical media, then it seems to me that you want a desktop computer. Apple has never wanted to build big computers. They had to previously, but now that WiFi has taken over, optical discs have gone the way of the dinosaur, and they're able to eek out 7 hours of battery life in a lightweight laptop, they can finally create the type of laptop that they've always wanted to. But if you must have ethernet and an optical drive, then you can still get it (via an external drive and a small dongle for ethernet), so I don't understand what the issue is there.
Again, the complaint about the lack of ethernet makes zero sense to me. You buy the dongle, you plug it into your ethernet cable, and you leave it on the desk. No extra space taken up. If you're using ethernet you're chaining yourself to a desk anyway.
As for the optical drive...if you need access to some optical discs when you're at your desk, again you stick that external drive on the desk. Big deal. And if you need frequent access to optical storage while on-the-go, then I hate to break it to you, but you're in the extreme minority. And even there, it's not like sticking that external drive in your laptop bag is going to add considerable bulk/weight, as Apple's external drive is very slim.
I've spent so much time defending Apple in this thread over what I consider to be such silly complaints, that I haven't had a chance to actually lodge some more valid complaints. What is there? Well, I could complain about the fact that I have to shell out $2200 to get a Retina screen. I'd like to see this screen as an option for the Air series. If a 13" Air starts at $1100, then a 15" Retina Air might cost $1500-1600, and that would be a very tempting machine. I figure that Apple is pushing this Retina laptop out for the early adopters who will pay over $2000 and we'll see the Retina screen offered in some cheaper options within 12 months. I can't really fault them for that, since they're a business, not a charity.
I could criticize them for charging so much for SSD size upgrades. Are their SSDs so much faster than what you can buy off-the-shelf? Here, too, though I'm hoping that we'll see their recent purchase of that Israeli SSD company translate into cheaper/larger SSD storage options within 12 months.
Overall, I think they're on the right track. And I'm glad that Asus is working hard to offer some real competition, as that will only serve to push them harder to put out even better stuff at even more competitive prices.
Again, the complaint about the lack of ethernet makes zero sense to me. You buy the dongle, you plug it into your ethernet cable, and you leave it on the desk. No extra space taken up. If you're using ethernet you're chaining yourself to a desk anyway.
As for the optical drive...if you need access to some optical discs when you're at your desk, again you stick that external drive on the desk. Big deal. And if you need frequent access to optical storage while on-the-go, then I hate to break it to you, but you're in the extreme minority. And even there, it's not like sticking that external drive in your laptop bag is going to add considerable bulk/weight, as Apple's external drive is very slim.
I've spent so much time defending Apple in this thread over what I consider to be such silly complaints, that I haven't had a chance to actually lodge some more valid complaints. What is there? Well, I could complain about the fact that I have to shell out $2200 to get a Retina screen. I'd like to see this screen as an option for the Air series. If a 13" Air starts at $1100, then a 15" Retina Air might cost $1500-1600, and that would be a very tempting machine. I figure that Apple is pushing this Retina laptop out for the early adopters who will pay over $2000 and we'll see the Retina screen offered in some cheaper options within 12 months. I can't really fault them for that, since they're a business, not a charity.
I could criticize them for charging so much for SSD size upgrades. Are their SSDs so much faster than what you can buy off-the-shelf? Here, too, though I'm hoping that we'll see their recent purchase of that Israeli SSD company translate into cheaper/larger SSD storage options within 12 months.
Overall, I think they're on the right track. And I'm glad that Asus is working hard to offer some real competition, as that will only serve to push them harder to put out even better stuff at even more competitive prices.
Why do laptops come with displays and keyboards? Wouldn't it be lighter and cheaper to use externals?
Funny question, but it just demonstrates that you don't understand the difference between including what's critical on a portable computer (e.g., a competent CPU/GPU/RAM, adequate storage space, and a display and keyboard) to what no longer is (e.g., legacy ethernet/serial/parallel ports for, floppy disk drive, etc.).
I think perhaps you don't understand. Those features which you consider to be unimportant are very important to many users. Believe it or not, some people don't like to use adapters for everything. Of course what's best for you is what the standard should be. Right?
OK, you know that old saying about how you can't be too thin or too rich? Well, the new RMBP is too thin and too rich.
I want a 17" Retina-display MBP that is the same size, shape, especially not-too-thin-ness, weight, fixability, and hackability as the 2007 MBP (the one with its swap-able removable battery, FW800, Gigabit hardwired Ethernet and 802.11n wireless, and 1920 x 1200 matte display).
Love the RMBP Retina display, love the fast CPU, SSD, and 3D graphics (would have preferred AMD graphics though), but too thin and too expensive.
That's what I meant by "regular".
I think you're wrong. The rMBP is one big compromise since its in such a short product range. I use my current Mackbook pro plugged into two different sets of external keyboard and screens. i.e. generally a portable desktop replacement and hardly ever use the built in screen and keyboard. So in actual fact for my use a detachable screen and keyboard would be ok. But for the majority I'm sure plain daft!
My general impressions of the rMBP are beautiful machines. But too much compromise to save a couple of mm in thickness!
Even lighter and cheaper would be a secure memory stick that you just use to carry around your cache of personal files. Everything else is a machine just connected to The Cloud wherever you want to go, the ubiquitous service model. In the meantime, I want a device with a keyboard so that I can type whenever I want without having to poke out a few letters with fingers.
All good points but I'd really like to point out that there are still a few assumptions in your post as well.
Not every content creator stores ALL of their files on the main machine, especially not the main disk. It will either be the current project only, or a bunch of projects with the main media on a second drives. Now, I would've like Apple to given us the option of a boot SSD and 1TB 7.2k drive as scratch, but I'd rather have a thin machine and TBolt my scratch drive.
In the end, I don't see too many people having issue with even 256GBs if it means speed. Store the basic files in Google Drive, Dropbox, iCloud and store the larger ones on a USB3.0 drive mobile/desktop and you're good to go.
Having 7 hours of battery is nothing to sneeze at really. It may have been 7 hours of life 3 years ago, but that was with processors that were 3 years old. Now, we have Ivy Bridge and we are still getting 7 hours of battery life.
There are actually quite a bit of FW800 drives on the market, especially at Apple Stores and the price is usually only $10 or so more than the USB2.0 only counterparts. I expect to see the same with TBolt after a few years . . . 3 or 4 years maybe. Remember, FW800 is about 9 years old.
I am glad there's no 3G personally. Having it built in was always something I never wanted for any of my devices. I'd rather have the hotspot or my phone be my source so I can pay just one bill and connect 5+ machines, rather than have to pay a bill for the iPad, iPhone, MBP, etc.
Again, I still would've like to see Apple give us everything but the kitchen sink like Sony used to do with their TT series of ultra-portables but that's just not Apple. Personally, I'd like to see a 17" RMBP with four USB 3.0, dual TBolt, SDXC slot and some serious speakers. And traditionally, the 17" allowed for more cooling, so the machine wouldn't get hot very fast.
True, they may have not used those brand of laptops, which all make great laptops. Although I consider Alienware and "Apple'esq" type of company with their premiums.
although your $4k windows laptop is ridiculous. I do see your point and there are plenty of $2k windows laptops that will give the new MBP a run for their money in all aspects except the display.
Upgradeability is not moot. Everyone loves to upgrade laptops, especially when they start aging to help keep them around longer and not having to drop another huge amount on a new laptop. Just cause you pay $2k for a laptop does not mean they can charge double the RAM price and it be OK. That is a joke!
I do agree with your battery talk and your storage talk, now that the new MBPs have USB 3.0 - Until they added that the external storage was NOT efficient at all having to use USB 2.0
OK, you know that old saying about how you can't be too thin or too rich? Well, the new RMBP is too thin and too rich.
I want a 17" Retina-display MBP that is the same size, shape, especially not-too-thin-ness, weight, fixability, and hackability as the 2007 MBP (the one with its swap-able removable battery, FW800, Gigabit hardwired Ethernet and 802.11n wireless, and 1920 x 1200 matte display).
Love the RMBP Retina display, love the fast CPU, SSD, and 3D graphics (would have preferred AMD graphics though), but too thin and too expensive.
That's what I meant by "regular".
Yes, I really wish they would of kept the 17" MBP around. Even if it was not a huge seller, it is not like they were losing money on them since they knew better than mass produce those like they would the 11" 13" and 15" versions of their laptops.
The 17" was just a sheer beast and a nice desktop replacement!! Hopefully it shows back up in a year or so? Does anyone think it will be showing back up in the next couple of years or is it gone for good?
I would say gone for good. I understand 17" MBP only accounted for 1 - 2% of their sales. That is big bucks if you ask me but not enough to keep the model alive.
As people get use to more portable and more powerful devices in the future... people will choose portability over performance. I've ordered rMBP but if I had to carry it around often, I would have gone for MBA... Even it is means having two computers. That's just me as I need the added power on some work but other people might be able to get away with Air.
OEM SSD prices have gone down during the past 12 months, though, hence the margin Apple makes has gone up !
No. Battery life is the same.
It has not. Far from it. We'll talk about that when real-world 1Gb/s WiFi appears.
That's valid, though.
Optical media, along with USB keys, precisely have a use while on-the-go since net access should be assumed to be non-existent, or a MBP user is a guest somewhere with no access to a network, or access is very limited and it's cheaper and faster to burn a coaster than trying to make two completely unrelated computer communicate with each other.
As for your last statement, I can't help but notice its similarity with the "keychain-sized" say, fad. Everything is small enough to fit. But the number of what is "small enough" precisely defeats the "small enough" character. Much as "tens of thousands of cars don't generate enough pollution to destroy nature". True. But millions of cars?
Even when pros have some storage device in their line of work, they may well be far from this storage media for some time, and, taking the example of image professionals, shooting in HD would quickly cram the internal drive before having a chance to back it up. An Euro 2012 photographer shoot around 90GB a day. With stock SSD capacity in that Retina MBP, he would only be able to shoot for 2 days-and-a-half before having to stop if he can not reach his drive. Keeping an external HDD with one self should be considered first-line working device, not backup. Carrying around a TB HDD defeats the weight gain on the laptop. Having a distant backup is surer, but hampered by slow access speed. Connecting to a distant drive just isn't feasible with common access speeds.
This is dependent upon constant connectivity, which is far from being achieved. Many Pro users don't necessarily work in places where 3G, 4G or WiFi coverage is available. Many users use their machine both for work and leisure, such as I do, and had trouble keeping a moderate iTunes collection, but especially a large documents collection I use as reference, as well as tons of papers. Simply put, I never knew which file I may need for a given project or if I would be able to connect to a WiFi network (e.g., the Second Cup SSID is notoriously Mac-unfriendly, and may not connect at all for hours at a time + 3G tethering gives only a GB a month), and kept all of them as reference. Consequently, I, and probably many people using their Mac for true mobile use, everything was hard to keep on 160GB HDD, same on 250GB HDD, and thus didn't make the jump to SSD yet, since only the 256GB fell into my price target.
O, gaining speed but needing to tether an external, big, fast platter-drive, doesn't it defeats the purpose of lightness? The regular form-factor is still good since one can easily replace the optical drive with a platter-drive, and use an SSD as the main drive, without increasing weight.
In my naïve mind, more modern processors go along with lower consumption. Hence, what was excellent 3 years ago should now be average.
We're not buying in the same stores, it seems. Despite its age, FW800 is still not widely available. Sure, Apple didn't make the jump to FW1600. But I still disagree with your statement, because:
1TB My Passport w/ FW800 ($199) vs. 1TB My Passport w/o FW800 ($139); there are other examples from G-Technology, not shown in the online store but available in brick-and-mortar stores, but always in the ~40% premium over USB2.0.
From a north american consumer, it is only understandable. But it keeps you tethered to a smartphone, preferably a jailbroken iPhone. Removing the choice NOT to use a smartphone doesn't seem a very smart move since 3G coverage or iPhones are not available absolutely anywhere. The no-contract model from the iPad 3G proves there's a market, and not a marginal one, for non-iPhone 3G internet access. If Apple assumed everyone "should" have an iPhone, why did they built the 3G iPad? Seems illogical.
Of course you can only reduce form factor up to a point if you want to keep everything integrated. But what's the point in removing technologies that haven't been replaced yet?
