Rumored MBP with ARM

[MUTTSx3]

Ok-I'm not that smart. My 17inch MBP from early 2011 is basically toast. Ive been waiting to replace it whether its a desktop or laptop I'm on the fence. I do run some windows applications, typically through parallels but Im not partial to that or bootcamp, VMWare etc.

Am I correct from what I read here that you wont be able to run windows with the ARM chips? Can someone explain that to me?

Thanks for your help.

Anthony

 

[theSeb]

Emulation, virtualization, bootcamp. No hopes?

Since Apple Silicon Mac can not use x86 windows, it will be a huge problem for those people using virtualization such as Parallels. Due to the different architecture, this will be the worst point of AS Mac but I have no idea what Apple is thinking. Even pro users are concerned. Yes, you can...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[MUTTSx3]

Emulation, virtualization, bootcamp. No hopes?

Since Apple Silicon Mac can not use x86 windows, it will be a huge problem for those people using virtualization such as Parallels. Due to the different architecture, this will be the worst point of AS Mac but I have no idea what Apple is thinking. Even pro users are concerned. Yes, you can...

forums.macrumors.com

A little over my head but that helps a ton-thanks

 

[richinaus]

Ok-I'm not that smart. My 17inch MBP from early 2011 is basically toast. Ive been waiting to replace it whether its a desktop or laptop I'm on the fence. I do run some windows applications, typically through parallels but Im not partial to that or bootcamp, VMWare etc.

Am I correct from what I read here that you wont be able to run windows with the ARM chips? Can someone explain that to me?

Thanks for your help.

Anthony

if you need windows, get an current model with intel, or buy a windows machine. simple answer for you.

 

[ght56]

Hey Anthony! You will be able to virtualize for sure, and an ARM version of Windows that is capable of running natively on the AS Macs + many common apps seeing rewrites to avoid the need for emulation seems likely (think about how much money Microsoft makes off of Mac customers.) That said, I would not expect to see things happen or work great overnight so if you need Windows, now is a great time to buy a loaded Intel Mac. They should have support for plenty of time and by the time you upgrade next, ARM should have gotten past the early generation hardware and software blues, and there will almost certainly be extremely refined Windows solutions + many Windows apps rewritten for ARM.

Edit - Please note I made a mistake. It looks like Parallels will work on a Mac to allow virtualization, but it is unclear as to if it will specifically allow the virtualization of Windows, and, if so, whether or not x86/x64 apps will work on the version(s) of Windows it will virtualize. This is a far less clear picture than I originally thought and I apologize for any confusion.

 

[richinaus]

Hey Anthony! You will be able to virtualize for sure, and an ARM version of Windows that is capable of running natively on the AS Macs + many common apps seeing rewrites to avoid the need for emulation seems likely (think about how much money Microsoft makes off of Mac customers.) That said, I would not expect to see things happen or work great overnight so if you need Windows, now is a great time to buy a loaded Intel Mac. They should have support for plenty of time and by the time you upgrade next, ARM should have gotten past the early generation hardware and software blues, and there will almost certainly be extremely refined Windows solutions + many Windows apps rewritten for ARM.

Please explain how you know this for fact?

 

[ght56]

Please explain how you know this for fact?

Parallels has confirmed they are moving forward with AS support

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

VMWare has not said no or yes...presumably they have less incentive given Fusion is only a small fraction of their operations

Broadcom Community - VMTN, Mainframe, Symantec, Carbon Black

Broadcom Community - VMTN, Mainframe, Symantec, Carbon Black

communities.vmware.com

The other portions have not been confirmed, hence my wording of "seems likely" and "should". Windows new x64 emulation capabilities is certainly an encouraging sign that Microsoft is interested in ARM to at least some extent, and IIRC Microsoft and Apple already have a partnership in place for native AS MS Office, which is also extremely encouraging.

 

[leman]

At any rate, wait until the November event. There will most likely be new Intel models coming out as well.

 

[Fishrrman]

Although Apple is expected to release an ARM MacBook late this year, new MacBook Pros may be "a way off" yet.

The old saying applies:
If you NEED now, BUY now.

Sounds like you "need now".

I'd be looking at the current 16" MacBook Pro.
There is some speculation that Apple may release a final updated 16" Intel-based MBP next month at its new product announcements (around the 17th, I think).

You might hold off until then.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Ok-I'm not that smart. My 17inch MBP from early 2011 is basically toast. Ive been waiting to replace it whether its a desktop or laptop I'm on the fence. I do run some windows applications, typically through parallels but Im not partial to that or bootcamp, VMWare etc.

Am I correct from what I read here that you wont be able to run windows with the ARM chips? Can someone explain that to me?

Thanks for your help.

Anthony

The versions of Windows most commonly used run on Intel, which is what current Macs use. They do not run on ARM. Apple Silicon is a heavily modified version of ARM. There is a version of Windows 10 for ARM, however, using it with Apple Silicon Macs requires work on the part of Apple and Microsoft that there is currently no sign of. So, if running Windows on a Mac is essential to you, buy an Intel Mac now while you still can!

 

[ght56]

Hey Anthony! You will be able to virtualize for sure, and an ARM version of Windows that is capable of running natively on the AS Macs + many common apps seeing rewrites to avoid the need for emulation seems likely (think about how much money Microsoft makes off of Mac customers.) That said, I would not expect to see things happen or work great overnight so if you need Windows, now is a great time to buy a loaded Intel Mac. They should have support for plenty of time and by the time you upgrade next, ARM should have gotten past the early generation hardware and software blues, and there will almost certainly be extremely refined Windows solutions + many Windows apps rewritten for ARM.

Please explain how you know this for fact?

Parallels has confirmed they are moving forward with AS support

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

VMWare has not said no or yes...presumably they have less incentive given Fusion is only a small fraction of their operations

Broadcom Community - VMTN, Mainframe, Symantec, Carbon Black

Broadcom Community - VMTN, Mainframe, Symantec, Carbon Black

communities.vmware.com

The other portions have not been confirmed, hence my wording of "seems likely" and "should". Windows new x64 emulation capabilities is certainly an encouraging sign that Microsoft is interested in ARM to at least some extent, and IIRC Microsoft and Apple already have a partnership in place for native AS MS Office, which is also extremely encouraging.

I may have stated something that was not true as my understanding here may be incorrect. It looks like Parallels WILL work on Apple Silicon, but whether or not Parallels will virtualize Windows specifically on Apple Silicon is still NOT officially confirmed.

Unclear on these specifics, I called Parallels support. I spoke to Parallels support and the individual I spoke to stated that Parallels WILL be able to virtualize Windows on Apple Silicon. I am not clear though as to how accurate that answer is.

I've edited my original post accordingly and am sorry for the confusion.

 

[leman]

Unclear on these specifics, I called Parallels support. I spoke to Parallels support and the individual I spoke to stated that Parallels WILL be able to virtualize Windows on Apple Silicon. I am not clear though as to how accurate that answer is.

I think this might be the case of the support person not completely understanding the situation. Windows on ARM is not yet available for end users. I dint think that Parallels support is informed about compatibility with unreleased systems.

 

[ght56]

I think this might be the case of the support person not completely understanding the situation. Windows on ARM is not yet available for end users. I dint think that Parallels support is informed about compatibility with unreleased systems.

I think you are probably right as they didn't seem to have a lot of familiarity with Apple Silicon, so I assume right now only Parallel's developers are the ones with access to Apple Silicon systems and internal knowledge on what comes next. Either way, I interpreted this incorrectly as being more simple than it looks to be.

But while my original statement is wrong, I am hopeful that the existing collaboration between Apple and Microsoft ultimately leads to future collaboration and Windows on ARM Macs, and that Microsoft's continued development of Windows on ARM makes it increasingly better and more capable.

 

[robvas]

I think you are probably right as they didn't seem to have a lot of familiarity with Apple Silicon, so I assume right now only Parallel's developers are the ones with access to Apple Silicon systems and internal knowledge on what comes next. Either way, I interpreted this incorrectly as being more simple than it looks to be.

But while my original statement is wrong, I am hopeful that the existing collaboration between Apple and Microsoft ultimately leads to future collaboration and Windows on ARM Macs, and that Microsoft's continued development of Windows on ARM makes it increasingly better and more capable.

ARM is just the instruction set. Don't forget there are other things on that chip that aren't related. The graphics hardware for one. Or Apple's 'Neural Net Processor' or whatever marketing term they give to the other units.

Apple isn't going to give Microsoft the information to make Windows run on an A14.

 

[LinkRS]

ARM is just the instruction set. Don't forget there are other things on that chip that aren't related. The graphics hardware for one. Or Apple's 'Neural Net Processor' or whatever marketing term they give to the other units.

Apple isn't going to give Microsoft the information to make Windows run on an A14.

Well Apple wouldn't need to give Microsoft any information. All Apple would have to do is provide/create ARM64 drivers for the various components of AppleSI. They could be delivered as binary packages without needing to share any indtricate details with Microsoft. Since currently Windows 10 ARM edition is an OEM specific product, there is no need to include a bunch of generic hardware drivers in the image, as the OEM/Vendor (Apple in this case presumably) who distirbutes it, could provide their own driver images. This would require Apple to support the idea of running Windows 10 ARM on the new AppleSI, and I don't really see many benefits to that. People want to use Windows (BootCamp) on Macs to run Windows specific software that is not avaialble in macOS. The Windows 10 ARM Edition can run some 32-bit and soon 64-bit Windows programs, but current experiences indcate performance doing this is poor. I suspect that Rosetta 2 will work better than how the emulator works in Windows 10 ARM.

This means the same thing for Windows 10 ARM as it does macOS on AppleSI. Software developers need to re-build their apps to support ARM natively to get best performance. I am sure that Apple would prefer that devs build their apps to natively support ARM on macOS, vices for Windows.

Thanks!

Rich S.

 

[leman]

Well Apple wouldn't need to give Microsoft any information. All Apple would have to do is provide/create ARM64 drivers for the various components of AppleSI. They could be delivered as binary packages without needing to share any indtricate details with Microsoft. Since currently Windows 10 ARM edition is an OEM specific product, there is no need to include a bunch of generic hardware drivers in the image, as the OEM/Vendor (Apple in this case presumably) who distirbutes it, could provide their own driver images. This would require Apple to support the idea of running Windows 10 ARM on the new AppleSI, and I don't really see many benefits to that.

I don’t see this happening. AppLe certainly won’t be writing and maintaining the full Windows driver stack for their GPUs encompassing four APIs. Much easier to delegate this to the VM software developers...

 

[LinkRS]

I don’t see this happening. AppLe certainly won’t be writing and maintaining the full Windows driver stack for their GPUs encompassing four APIs. Much easier to delegate this to the VM software developers...

Agreed, I don't expect that Apple will support Windows 10 ARM. The primary reason for folks wanting Windows on a macOS anyway, won't be true of Windows 10 ARM, that is software support and compatibility. However, just to play devils advocate here, it took enthusiasts figuring out how to get Windows to boot on Intel Mac hardware before Apple started to support it LOL.

Rich S.