Running an external drive with different OS?

Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by Peter Franks, May 21, 2018.

  1. Peter Franks macrumors 68000

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    #1
    Anyone know why plugging in an iPhone, while running an external drive with a different OS that you want to use to back up iPhone on that external OS, would shut down the MPB as soon as you plug it in to the USB on the laptop?
     
  2. hobowankenobi, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018

    hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Dunno....but my hunch would be trouble on the USB bus.

    Is the USB external drive powered (AC to the wall) or bus powered (USB only)?

    Over-taxing the USB bus could cause a momentary power loss....on a boot drive, that would be fatal to the OS. If it was trying to charge the phone...and spin the HD, could do it.

    Some USB devices on some Macs (varies by models and firmware) are finicky about stablitly, and will occasionally unmount. That is also death to external booted OS.
     
  3. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #3
    hobo wrote:
    "Over-taxing the USB bus could cause a momentary power loss....on a boot drive, that would be fatal to the OS. If it was trying to charge the phone...and spin the HD, could do it."

    THIS is "the answer".

    Next time, if you want to charge the phone, plug it into a separate charger that you plug into the wall. Problems... solved.
     
  4. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Another option would be to use a powered USB hub to plug in the phone or any other power hungry accessories, which should reduce the burden on the internal USB bus power demands.
     
  5. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Thanks for your answers, but no, it was because I can't update or back up iPhone on old iTunes on internal, so have newer iTunes on external running a more up to date OS. Nothing to do with charging phone.
    External is run purely from USB yes, not a wall AC.

    I don't get that when I plug in to MBP when no external attached.
    Are we saying it can't cope with running an externa, and then plugging the phone into the other USB at the same time? I thought it was a fairly basic request, but is that overload?
     
  6. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #6
    Can I partition with a more up to date OS and do it that way and use the iTunes in the new OS just for that instead, or won't that work and will end up using the old iTunes in main part
     
  7. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Can anyone help on this please, I think I can partition and install. Hopefully. But won’t bother if what I want to do on it isn’t possible. As stated when EC was external it wasn’t possible as it shut down, and wondered if it’s internal will make a difference.
     
  8. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Yes, you can partition a drive and install different OSes...and boot to them (assuming your machine supports/boots that OS).

    I don't understand what problem you are trying solve though...

    You mention iTunes, and please be aware that when you partition your drive, and then clone your existing OS to it, and then update the cloned OS, so you can have a newer version of iTunes, it will update your iTunes library, and it won't work on the older OS any more. There is no going backwards.

    And:
    • You will waste a ton of space on your drive, as both OSes need room to breath.
    • It is unwise to fill any volume more about 80%. Less is better. 2 small volumes can get tight fast.
    • The machine will be slower, especially on the second partition, using the inner sectors of the HD, which is slowest.
    • twice as much to update, troubleshoot, maintain.
    If it were me, I would circle back to troubleshooting why the USB bus hiccups when both the phone and external are plugged in.

    1. It could be the bus, and a powered USB hub might solve it.
    2. It could be the external USB enclosure. There are different USB chipsets, and some just don't play nice with some other hardware and OSes. A new/different external (preferably powered) enclosure could solve it. If the existing enclosure plays nice by itself, you could still use it (alone) for storage or backups.
     
  9. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #9
    Thanks, Regarding cloning, It was going to be the bare bones of El Capitan on the partition, and just keep my old Snow Leopard on the main for all my work. That's what I meant, I wasn't cloning anything to the newer OS, just using it for things I need, like backing up the iPhone which it won't allow me to do on the Snow Leopard. And more up to date Safari etc. Does that make sense? Would that affect anything. It would be a very small part of the drive.

    So if I understand you correctly, despite having two completely different operating systems, with separate iTunes, they still use the same library for both OS, even when partitioned and booted separately?

    Powered enclosure is a possible actually. Thanks for your reply
     
  10. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I see.

    No, once you update iTunes, it won't work with an older version. No going back (easily).

    Once your phone is updated, it may not play nice with the old version of iTunes...but I don't know that for sure.

    Silly question: Why not just update your OS, and be done with it? If you have not run into other software issues, like out dated browsers, plug ins, etc., plus security risks, you will soon.

    The clock is ticking, and anything older than about 10.10 will get hard use. 10.14 likely just around the corner!
     
  11. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #11
    The phone doesn’t work with SL iTunes anyway. That’s the whole point. And why I want a newer version on partition. It would only be used with the newer one. That’s why I needed it. With regards to newer OS, none of them are as easy to use as SL. I use pinch and zoom in just about every programme and it’s not there anymore. Not just for browsers. I listed several things on here that didn’t sit well with me but didn’t receive any alternatives from anyone so assume they’ve done away with all of the things I use regularly.

    So if I update iTunes on the partition new OS, it affects old completely separate one? That will never update iTunes anyway it’s un-updateable. It’s just for my old iPod.

    Why are there so many videos on YouTube showing you how to install beta OS versions on a partition to see if you want to update. There is never any mention that iTunes will affect the other one
     
  12. mikzn macrumors 6502a

    mikzn

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    #12
    usually when you move to a new version of iTunes - the library / data base gets updated and may not be compatible with the prior version of iTunes.

    If you are using the same library for several drives and machines, Mac, MBP, etc you need to make sure that the iTunes version is the same on each installation, drive, mac
     
  13. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #13
    I genuinely thought having a different OS on the partition meant it would be two separate iTunes..... The 11.4 I use now, and the new up to date one on the partition. I really don't understand that, but thanks. What else do the separate OS share if you have two OS running?
     
  14. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #14
    Peter Franks, you have a 2010 MacBook Pro, is this right?

    If so, it's just "time to move on" from Snow Leopard. It was a fine OS, but it's just "too far outdated" now.

    You need to move up to either El Capitan or Low Sierra.

    And... stop trying to use the MacBook Pro to charge the phone and use the other USB port at the same time. Not enough USB power!
     
  15. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #15
    Hey Fish, Charge the phone, no. As stated it's purely to back up the phone on that OS, as SL won't now allow it.
    But I'm talking internal partition, and not external now, so it wouldn't be anything at the same time, just phone.

    I hear what you're saying, but SL works fine for me and I need to use it over and above anything that's come after it. Don't see why I can't have a clean instal of EC on the partition to use for specific parts, like backing up the phone, like a safer browser. Why is that such a tall order. The EC would be clean and have nothing on it, files wise, that would stay on the main part. It's a 2011 yeh.
     
  16. vkd macrumors 6502a

    vkd

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    #16
    Peter, I think theres quite a bit of confusion in this thread. From what I can make of it, your idea to install El Cap on a new partition will NOT affect anything - including iTunes - on your SL partition. And it will do away with the bus overload when you plug your phone in. Sounds like thats the way forward mate, just go internal instead of external and praise the eternal LOL.
     
  17. mikzn macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    you certainly don't have to have a shared library - sorry - I thought that was what you wanted. If you keep 2 versions of itunes on separate OS partitions and libraries then there is no issue - just different libraries / different itunes versions and separate music etc.

    I have a single shared library for iTunes 12.6.3.6 and a folder with the music files for all my MBP's and a few drives like a High Sierra ( separate boot test drive). this keeps the music all the same (sourced on one drive) and also the sync of 2 x iPhones and 2 x iPads in my case.

    FYI - Photos (2 and 3) and iPhoto can be much the same issue since they use a similar library structure as iTunes, I have a lot of photos in different versions of Photos and iPhoto and have the libraries on a stand alone drive and can access from different macbooks. Strangely iPhoto still works on High Sierra so I did not upgrade the library data base and just installed iPhoto on high Sierra and kept the same library to work from both Sierra and High Sierra.

    Some good reasons to stay on SL would be if still using a HDD drive? if you have not upgraded to SSD drive? and also any apps that may need to be upgrading several version of OSX - that said Sierra is my favorite after snow leopard. Better for iCloud drive and syncing to iPhone and iPad

    If you don't have an SSD it might be worth checking out - more than 10 times faster and you can upgrade to Sierra
     
  18. hobowankenobi macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Not sure what you mean. Pinch and zoom are still there...although there have been some software conflicts or issues. Did not go away.

    I certainly understand that each OS introduces change. But it comes, and we have to adjust. You have had a good ride with 10.6, but it will shortly be a real problem regarding all sorts of software and web shortcomings or incompatibles, not to mention security holes.

    No matter what you (actually the OS, not you) are on borrowed time. Need to get to at least 10.11 to have some breathing room. The more you defer, the farther behind you are...the larger the gap gets.

    Imagine your machine died tomorrow, and you bought a new one. 10.13 on day one. And in a few months...it will be 10.14.

    Stuff to think about.


    Having said all that....yes, you can have two separate OSes...as long as you have the necessary space. By default, they will share nothing (outside of hardware and related things, MAC address, ike IP address, etc). Like two different physical machines.
     
  19. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Thank you! yes you are 100%, that is exactly what I meant, I'm not sure what was causing the thread to go the way of they will both use same iTunes Library...

    Thanks, it would be a great idea to have that set up with the matching iTunes so I don't have to copy all again on new one, as it looks like the more up to date iTunes is a better option, but it wasn't the main priority. I figure I can copy the old iTunes library and dump in new one at a later date if I stick with newer OS, but more worried about the phone back ups being there which I've not been able to do since they locked the phone out of the last iTunes update for SL.

    I did actually install El Cap on the SSD, but too much was missing for what I needed after umpteen years of SL use and switched back to SL. Annoyance of pinch and zoom only in Safari. I wanted it in folders etc, because I use that so much. The sliding desktops when I opened a jpeg in a folder, the page behind the jpegs folder slid to desktop, and I couldn't get it to stay on page, and had to slide back to folder to open next jpeg. The restart opening a load of programmes, I tried to stop, even when I ticked the shut down part that said when restart don't open apps.. etc etc. It just annoyed me and I'm impatient and don't have time for it. Are you saying High Sierra not to your preference as Sierra? I hear that a lot.

    As a side to this, how much Partition do I need for the EC would you suggest, I have about 180GB free space on 500GB SSD at the moment. Plus I never set anything up to 'TRIM', and wonder how that would work if it's partitioned with two OS, if it's only one drive. I read there is a terminal command to set TRIM on EC, but not SL. Is it essential or do I not bother with it, and just hope for the best and assume the SAMSUNG SSD is doing it's thing behind the scenes. Naive?

    Hey, yes I have done the rounds at Apple stores and pinch and zoom definitely gone, except for in Safari, and I think Maps. I used it in folders and just about everywhere, Photoshop etc. And it's not there now. I've really researched that so if you are telling me otherwise, I'm all ears. But they are adamant, I even rang Apple, after a few guys in separate Apple stores told me to do so, and they've confirmed they've done away with it. People complained apparently that they were using it accidentally, which is rubbish because they could just turn it off.

    I appreciate all your points, and thanks for your insight, and that's why I think I should start off with the EC on the partition to ease myself in to it. Hopefully that's the way forward for stubborn old gits like me who have stuck with SL for 7 years
     
  20. mikzn, Jun 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018

    mikzn macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    I have a similar set up - but with Sierra on my MBP and an external SSD with High Sierra on 200 g partition (evo 850 500g) so the 180 you have should work fine for space on the external? for el cap? Don't know why you don't go a few steps further to Sierra - not much difference performance wise and the iCloud and sync features for contacts, messages etc. is much better.

    I did not bother with trim either - but it's probably a good thing to do.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 2, 2018 ---
    Not really much difference as far as I can tell ( Sierra vs High Sierra) - I just have a few programs that don't work on High Sierra and will have to pay for the upgraded versions so am on Sierra for my daily OS - Photos 3 is a significant change if you have a lot of Photos - but iPhoto and Photos 2 both work on High Sierra if you don't want to upgrade the libraries.

    I also avoided the formatting with the new file system APFS
     
  21. Peter Franks thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #21
    @mikzn Only reason I won't go Sierra is because the Office/Word, and Photoshop I have will work on El Cap, but doubtful further as they're both 7 or 8 years old.

    Can you let me know what the deal is with APFS that you mention? And how did you avoid it if you updated the OS, what are the drawbacks, is it incompatible with apps/progs?

    TRIM on 2 partitions, one drive, no idea how that is supposed to work? I've no idea how or if to set it up either

    @hobowankenobi, check my reply to you about pinch and zoom above, am very curious to know how you still have it, and on what OS?
     

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