Running Windows on MAC Studio M2

[kirkster501]

I currently run a Mac Studio M2 Max (standard binned) with 64G.

I have a need to run a few high CPU Windows 10/11 only astronomy applications that I currently use a home brew I7-8800/32G/1060Ti PC for. I run a few games on this PC as well but they are modest games such as GTA and Tombraider.

What are you guys' experiences like of running Windows apps on the M2 (Max or Ultra) with VM player/Fusion ???? I would like to free up space and sell this PC if I could run them on the M2 Studio.

I also have the possibility of swapping my Max for an M2 Ultra/128G since a pal of mine is selling his since he does not need the power and we could do a swap. Opinons please if Windows on VMware Player can use the resources of the M2 chip in this setting? I could part fund the upgrade to the Ultra by selling the PC.

My other use cases I do on the M2 Max are modest amounts of video/music production that the Max is fine with.

Thank you.

 

[bobcomer]

You'll be running the ARM version of Windows in a VM and it works well most of the time, but some things don't work at all. Especially if they require drivers.

Performance is okay, but not spectacular. Gaming except for very simple games is a no go in virtualization, and especially with Windows on Arm.

 

[kirkster501]

Thanks. The only games I would run would be native MAC ones. I'd never game in the VM. The Windows apps I need to run are CPU intensive and need no drivers and run on the CPU.

I suppose what I wanted to know is does Windows gain direct access to the Cores on the Mac or does it have to run through an emulation layer?

 

[bobcomer]

I suppose what I wanted to know is does Windows gain direct access to the Cores on the Mac or does it have to run through an emulation layer?

It would only gain direct access if it were an ARM executable. There are some, but it's not very common. Otherwise, it's an emulation layer, and not as good as rosetta 2 on the Mac side.

 

[Sun Baked]

Download the free trial offers, and see if your apps will run on your current Studio.

 

[Surenmunoo]

Try Parallels Desktop which installs Windows 11 onto the Studio. It is free to try for 14 days then you need to pay.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

Try Parallels Desktop which installs Windows 11 onto the Studio. It is free to try for 14 days then you need to pay.

Unfortunately there are no drivers for GPU acceleration, even on Parallels Desktop 19. Fingers crossed there will be a driver available in the future as for Linux.

 

[haralds]

Unfortunately there are no drivers for GPU acceleration, even on Parallels Desktop 19. Fingers crossed there will be a driver available in the future as for Linux.

I am not sure, what you mean by that. Parallels Desktop and Crossover translate DX11 and now DX12 to Metal. Crossover and Apple Porting Kit (made easy with Whisky) also supply Vulcan translation to Metal.
Gaming is surprisingly good. Check some of Michael Tsai's youtube videos on the subject and see.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

3D is often not supported under M1 with Windows 11 under Parallels 19. As a result, Windows on my Mac Studio is even slower than my 12 year old MacPro 5,1 with a Radeon 580.

Open GL is not supported with Windows 11 under Parallels 19.

 

[kirkster501]

I swapped my Studio regardless. A swap of my M2 Studio Max 64G/1TB for his M2 Ultra 64G/1TB plus £400 (about $500).

In all honesty I cannot tell the difference in my applications. However, I am a bit more future proofed perhaps if I want to do more high intensity stuff.

 

[haralds]

3D is often not supported under M1 with Windows 11 under Parallels 19. As a result, Windows on my Mac Studio is even slower than my 12 year old MacPro 5,1 with a Radeon 580.
View attachment 2250872

Open GL is not supported with Windows 11 under Parallels 19.
View attachment 2250875

This might be an artifact of the benchmarking. I have a cMPro 5,1 with overlocked Sapphire RX-580 and my M1 Ultra is faster in Parallels Desktop than cMPro 5,1 BootCamp and VM with most games including Baldur's Gate 3. That one seems to run best under Crossover 23, while I wait for the native version expected Sept 6.
OpenGL certainly still has issues. There are ways to use Crossover/Wine with mesa to overcome that.
I think, Whisky might integrate it more seamlessly, but have not tried.

 

[pshufd]

Directions for installing Windows 11 ARM on Apple Silicon on UTM. UTM is free.

 

[touchUpInside]

I am not sure, what you mean by that. Parallels Desktop and Crossover translate DX11 and now DX12 to Metal. Crossover and Apple Porting Kit (made easy with Whisky) also supply Vulcan translation to Metal.
Gaming is surprisingly good. Check some of Michael Tsai's youtube videos on the subject and see.

Andrew Tsai ?

 

[jpefjr]

The Windows apps I need to run are CPU intensive and need no drivers and run on the CPU.

What are the Windows apps you need that are CPU intensive? Are they part of the astronomy applications? Stacking/post-processing of images?

 

[kirkster501]

What are the Windows apps you need that are CPU intensive? Are they part of the astronomy applications? Stacking/post-processing of images?

Planetary, lunar and solar processing stuff such as AutoStakkert, Registax and PIPP. All deep sky stuff can be done in PixInsight which as you know runs on MAC. When Juan@PI builds the Mac Silicon version of PI then my Ultra will really fly. It does already.

I had a rethink about this and I have repurposed my PC to be the capture PC in the OBS and now do the Windows only stuff on that and Remote into it from my Mac Studio when I want to do PC only based stuff with the .ser files. I can then drag the completed files for final processing on the Mac.

 

[maflynn]

I had a rethink about this

I'm a big proponent of picking the right tool for the job. You could use a pair of plyers as a hammer but should you? Same with needing to run windows, you could possibly do it, but there are downsides to this on a M1/M2 Mac. you need to weigh the pros and cons and see if its a good fit

 

[jpefjr]

Planetary, lunar and solar processing stuff such as AutoStakkert, Registax and PIPP. All deep sky stuff can be done in PixInsight which as you know runs on MAC. When Juan@PI builds the Mac Silicon version of PI then my Ultra will really fly. It does already.

I had a rethink about this and I have repurposed my PC to be the capture PC in the OBS and now do the Windows only stuff on that and Remote into it from my Mac Studio when I want to do PC only based stuff with the .ser files. I can then drag the completed files for final processing on the Mac.

Yeah, it's really too bad the planetary (and lunar) processing software seems to only be available on Windows. There are a few pieces of software that run on MacOS (Lynkeos and Planetary System Stacker come to mind) but they don't compare to AutoStakkert/Registax/PIPP/WinJUPOS and the like.

 

[kirkster501]

Yeah definitely. The new capture PC is now my I7-8800/32G/1060Ti and I acknowledge this is way overkill for this task alone. However, rather than it be under my desk in my office it is now in the OBS and I do the Windows power stuff on it by RDC'ing into it. Going to pull the 1060Ti card out of it and sell it and use Intel graphics to cut the power consumption down a bit and realise $100 or £80 for the 1060 that contributes towards the upgrade of my M2 Max to the M2 Ultra.

 

[pshufd]

Yeah definitely. The new capture PC is now my I7-8800/32G/1060Ti and I acknowledge this is way overkill for this task alone. However, rather than it be under my desk in my office it is now in the OBS and I do the Windows power stuff on it by RDC'ing into it. Going to pull the 1060Ti card out of it and sell it and use Intel graphics to cut the power consumption down a bit and realise $100 or £80 for the 1060 that contributes towards the upgrade of my M2 Max to the M2 Ultra.

GPUs are ridiculously priced. We bought ours before the pandemic but I had planned to upgrade and can't stomach the prices.

 

[ipodlover77]

Finally upgraded my aging 2009 iMac 27" to a M2 Studio.
I had some reservations switching over to the M series as I wasn't able to fully test my work flow on parallels prior to purchasing.
Running Windows through parallels is a bit slower than my dedicated gaming comp. at home but I couldn't give up Mac for work due to enjoyment.
Even though it might be slightly slower, still worlds better than Bootcamp on my 2009 i5.
Hoping Parallels gets faster of the years as it gets optimized.
M2 Max with 64gb (20 alloted to Windows) and 2TB.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

Parallels is definitely the best choice, way more user friendly and reliable than VMWare Fusion Pro on Silicon Macs.