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Sahara G3 has 200MHZ bus but being held back at 100MHZ and also a 1.5GHZ G3 in works!

D

david2371

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 23, 2002
4
0
ontario,canada
IBM's info says the PowerPC 750FX has a 200MHZ bus and support for an external L3 cache.I find it frustrateing that the G3's full potential is being wasted because moble G4's and even desktop G4's are nearing their limits.The Sahara G3 in the new 700MHZ iBOOKS can be set to 800MHZ using software.Geek.com also shows the PowerPC 760 AKA G3e having a clock speed of 1.5GHZ and being ready by the second half of 2001.So either its a false statement or IBM cut development because it wouldent be used.If IBM can produce G3's like the SAHARA when the G3 is being phased out then imagine what IBM could do with the G3 if apple was more interested in it.I for one think the G3 is a better chip then the G4 as it holds it's own even without altivec.It's sad that the G4's blunders hinder the G3's sucess.I think a machine with a 1GHZ G3 200MHZ bus and a Geforce 4 graphics card would give many current macs a run for their money.
just my 2 cents
 
All good and well... but we really don't know what Motorola have in the works for the G4....... I'm sure that such a revision of the G3 chip is indeed fine........ but there are certain things that the G4 has going for it... (more so if we believe what the next G4 revision is going to include) Altivec is an unanswerable boom over the the G3..... as is it's capability to be dual configured....... (not sure whether IBM have made this possible with the G3 yet...) Ultimately though the whole PPC thing would be much better if Apple, IBM and Motorola started working properly together again....... they really need to plan the future of the PPC...... otherwise it's just gonna go under...... and that would be such a shame.......:(
 
If the 1ghz G3 was ready, then someone would be using it. Even IBM doesn't use it.

IBM tends to release information about their chips way in advance. They were talking about a 1ghz G3 (in Press Releases) last November, but it wasn't until May 2002 that we saw a 700mhz G3 (Sahara) being used.

I'm not certain if a 1Ghz G3 will ever be used by anyone.

BTW, I would trust anything I found on Geek.com. Just my opinion.
 
actually it would be faster than the g4s and just look at the ibook with 16MB vram compared to powerbook with 800 and 32 MBVRAM at www.barefeats.com and you will see what i mean. i mean who in the right mind would want a 1GHZ g4 powerbook g4 when they can have a 1.5ghz g3 that runs faster than it at everything, runs cooler, and uses less battery power. However marketing wont allow Apple to offer this set-up. maybe an upgrade manufactuer will offer 1.5 GHZ upgrades based on this chip soon for lombards and pismos and g4 powerbooks. there cheaper than g4s will keep the power book cooler and batteries running longer. if IBM could get moto to let it use altivec on these chips and they could multi process we would be at 1.5 in a few months and probably fanless. as it stands now this is the ultimate setup for notebooks. apple please take a second look at the higher clock speeds cause i want a cheaper and cooler{literally speaking} notebook.
peace
 
Originally posted by daveg5
actually it would be faster than the g4s and just look at the ibook with 16MB vram compared to powerbook with 800 and 32 MBVRAM at www.barefeats.com and you will see what i mean. i mean who in the right mind would want a 1GHZ g4 powerbook g4 when they can have a 1.5ghz g3 that runs faster than it at everything, runs cooler, and uses less battery power. However marketing wont allow Apple to offer this set-up. maybe an upgrade manufactuer will offer 1.5 GHZ upgrades based on this chip soon for lombards and pismos and g4 powerbooks. there cheaper than g4s will keep the power book cooler and batteries running longer. if IBM could get moto to let it use altivec on these chips and they could multi process we would be at 1.5 in a few months and probably fanless. as it stands now this is the ultimate setup for notebooks. apple please take a second look at the higher clock speeds cause i want a cheaper and cooler{literally speaking} notebook.
peace
Click to expand...
First of all, the 1.5ghz G3 doesn't exist (let alone a 1ghz one. Secondly, Motorola has offered to liscense Altivec to IBM. It's just that IBM doesn't want to use it (for whatever reason).

BTW, I just looked at the charts comparing the PB DVI to the Sahara iBooks. It looks like the PB beat the iBook in every category except the Bryce test. So what's your point?
 
The only thing the G4 has going for it is altivec and only a hand full of apps support it.Its kinda like winning a fight cause you got your big bad friend to back you up.The G3 dosent need altivec to kick ass and without altivec the G4 is nothing.The G4 has been nothing but a dissapointment since the day it was released.It lags behind even the G3 in bus speed and ram capabilitied and in non altivec things AKA most apps in exsistance a 700MHZ sahara would wipe the floor with a 700MHZ G4.A sahara at 800MHZ uses less power than a 350MHZ G4.The sahara at 800MHZ takes 4WAtts where as a 667MHZ G4 uses 17.5 and a 1GHZ G4 uses 21.5Watts.
 
David you've been reading too much IBM RDF

Originally posted by david2371
The only thing the G4 has going for it is altivec and only a hand full of apps support it.Its kinda like winning a fight cause you got your big bad friend to back you up.The G3 dosent need altivec to kick ass and without altivec the G4 is nothing.The G4 has been nothing but a dissapointment since the day it was released.It lags behind even the G3 in bus speed and ram capabilitied and in non altivec things AKA most apps in exsistance a 700MHZ sahara would wipe the floor with a 700MHZ G4.A sahara at 800MHZ uses less power than a 350MHZ G4.The sahara at 800MHZ takes 4WAtts where as a 667MHZ G4 uses 17.5 and a 1GHZ G4 uses 21.5Watts.
Click to expand...



G3 versus G4

David this has been gone over since the introduction of the G4. Read this link above.

The 200mhz bus you claim is a fallacy. Apple has a Memory controller and it simply doesn't support DDR yet it doesn't matter what theoretically the G3 can do.

Both processors had a 4 stage pipeline..the G4+ had a core change and went to 7 stages which allowed Moto to add a %50 speed increase from 500Mhz to 733mhz. IBM has been claiming that they can clock the G3 higher making Altivec in the G4 fruitless proposition and they haven't done it.

The G4's faster processing of Double Precision math is reason enough for many to give it preference over a G3.

Your opinion is your opinion but based on readily availabe facts your agruements do not have a strong backing. My opinion is the G3 should have been put out to pasture a while ago. IBM has been RDF'in Clockspeed fanatics with dellusions of grandeur about 1.5Gigahertz G3's. Bollocks!
 
Originally posted by david2371
The only thing the G4 has going for it is altivec and only a hand full of apps support it.Its kinda like winning a fight cause you got your big bad friend to back you up.The G3 dosent need altivec to kick ass and without altivec the G4 is nothing.The G4 has been nothing but a dissapointment since the day it was released.It lags behind even the G3 in bus speed and ram capabilitied and in non altivec things AKA most apps in exsistance a 700MHZ sahara would wipe the floor with a 700MHZ G4.A sahara at 800MHZ uses less power than a 350MHZ G4.The sahara at 800MHZ takes 4WAtts where as a 667MHZ G4 uses 17.5 and a 1GHZ G4 uses 21.5Watts.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that OSX also recognises and uses Altivec..... and there's alot more than a handful of apps that support Altivec...... so stop speaking ****e..... also when it comes to serious number crunching Altivec is mighty........ there's little point in dissing Altivec really is there??? anything that makes a chip faster is good right??

The current G3 doesn't kick arse....... simple as that..... I'd take the current G4 PowerBook over the iBook anyday of the week...... and all this talk of a hypothetical 1.5GHZ G3 really is a waste of time... because as far as we know it doesn't exist........
 
Remember

iDVD alone requires Altivec to encode the MPEG2 data.

Altivec is not going to accelerate everything but the items it does accelerate definitely welcome the additional number crunching.
 
thats my point the lucky sevens test prove the ibook is faster mainy because of the larger cache and smaller pipeline in virtually all test that do not involve alti-vec {ibook 700, imac and emac 700 powerbook 667} or takes advantage of a larger video card and even beats the mighty 800 powerbook at some non altivec tasks. my previous post wasnt to diss the g4 but rather to show apple that they might be missing an opputunity to give us the best, coolest,less battery draining, quietest laptops possible.
Although I know it wont happen I would much rather have a 1.5GHZ g3 powerbook than a 1GHZ g4 powerbook, granted the G4 would be faster at somethings, and what is a G4 its a g3 with altivec and the floating point unit from the 604e(i think). my main point was WOW i wonder if IBM could add ALtivec to this chip and ddr L3cache and multiprocessor support we could probably have a dual sahara g3+altivec 1.5GHZ in a notbook using less watts then a single 1.5 g4. it is only wishful thinking nothing else and another potential option as steve would say.
I'm tired of intel and amd having all the GHZ speed altivec or not
 
Originally posted by ftaok
If the 1ghz G3 was ready, then someone would be using it. Even IBM doesn't use it.
Click to expand...

The 1GHz G3 is ready and shipping. Apple is not using it, but embedded device makers are.
IBM tends to release information about their chips way in advance. They were talking about a 1ghz G3 (in Press Releases) last November, but it wasn't until May 2002 that we saw a 700mhz G3 (Sahara) being used.
Click to expand...

Apple is not IBM's only customer. The Sahara G3 was ready before Apple put it in the iBook. Also, the 700MHz G3 in the iBook is an underclocked 800MHz G3, if I'm not mistaken.

Alex
 
Originally posted by alex_ant

The 1GHz G3 is ready and shipping. Apple is not using it, but embedded device makers are.
[/b]
Apple is not IBM's only customer. The Sahara G3 was ready before Apple put it in the iBook. Also, the 700MHz G3 in the iBook is an underclocked 800MHz G3, if I'm not mistaken.

Alex [/B]
Click to expand...
Are you sure Alex? I was under the impression that the Sahara G3 (750FX) was ONLY being used by Apple. I don't see any press releases stating that the 1Ghz G3 was being shipped.
 
I think that we're missing a point:

Even if the fastest that the 750FX currently goes is 800MHz, it would still be running great if given a 200Mhz system bus and 400MHz DDR memory.
 
Originally posted by ftaok
Are you sure Alex? I was under the impression that the Sahara G3 (750FX) was ONLY being used by Apple. I don't see any press releases stating that the 1Ghz G3 was being shipped.
Click to expand...
Well, the 1GHz G3 is listed right along with all the other 750FX processors on IBM's website. IBM isn't a company known for its vaporware. (http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/)
Usually press releases are only put out to announce forthcoming chips, not to pin down exact delivery dates. IBM's Sahara press release happened last October.

IBM sells PPCs to whoever wants them, 750FX included. I have no idea who else uses the 750FX, if anyone, but there is no contract that says only Apple can use them. They're available to anyone.

Alex
 
anyone who uses the words "only" or "just" in diminutive terms of altivec is smoking some strong sh*t.

altivec is some serious power that x86 still can't touch yrs later. just take a look at the BLAST results on the XServe as compared to other middle-range server solutions. Altivec simply destroys the competition.

This is relevant because Jaguar will be the great leveraging of Altivec throughout the OS. Even the compiler (GCC 3.1) now has Altivec support. Optimized math libs and multithreading further into the core OS as well as throughout the data process leading to an output device are going to make this thing fly.

I can't wait to read the reactions of current low-end G4 users to Jaguar. I have a feeling its going to be like a computing epiphany.
 
Well, it looks like the iBook is going to stay G3 for a while :D

Seriously, though who needs a superdrive in an iBook? They're consumer machines, so you don't need the altivec for the MPEG-2 encoding... I see the G3 as a simpler, light-weight, yet powerful processor with ample opportunities for Apple in the future... Maybe that new G4 pic will have a 1.5ghz G3 :p
 
Originally posted by sparkleytone
anyone who uses the words "only" or "just" in diminutive terms of altivec is smoking some strong sh*t.

altivec is some serious power that x86 still can't touch yrs later. just take a look at the BLAST results on the XServe as compared to other middle-range server solutions. Altivec simply destroys the competition.

This is relevant because Jaguar will be the great leveraging of Altivec throughout the OS. Even the compiler (GCC 3.1) now has Altivec support. Optimized math libs and multithreading further into the core OS as well as throughout the data process leading to an output device are going to make this thing fly.

I can't wait to read the reactions of current low-end G4 users to Jaguar. I have a feeling its going to be like a computing epiphany.
Click to expand...

due to the lack of AltiVec enabled apps in OSX it would be great to see EVERYTHING taking some advantage of it. if there's anyone out there with a 550 TiBook and Jaguar I'd love to hear how it is for you. My 550 started to feel painfully slow after awhile. If 10.2 can breathe life back into one of those then I'd say it's going to be a very special update indeed.
 
i find it highly unlikely form a marketing standpoint that apple will revive G3's i know from experience that they cant cut the mustard in OS X im using an iMac DV 400 G4 is the way the software accompaning the hardware is trending
 
Other companies use the G3. I think Nintendo uses one on their Gamecubes.

But why view the G3 as competition to the G4? Look at the Celeron/P4 or Duron/Athlon. I think a 1 GHz G3 iBook with a 32MB vid card and 133+ FSB would be perfect for some people. Others would want a 1 GHz PB with 64 MB and DDR.

My Mom could use a G3 e/iMac to surf the web, and type up letters. I would use a G4 Tower to do multimedia stuff.

The G3s are cheaper, cooler, less power hungry, but offer plenty of overall speed, and would be fine for most people.
 
As has been discussed many times before, using higher-MHz G3s in consumer Macs than the G4s used in pro Macs would be a PR nightmare. You don't see AMD offering Durons faster than their Athlons, and you don't see Intel offering celery faster than the PIVs.

Fast G3s are nice, but what some of you are talking about just wont happen.
 
My post is not to diss the G4 but rather to get ibm and moto together to add altivec to the ibm G3 which is currently being underclocked and under bussed and under L3 cached and undered DDR memoried, if thats a word.

Because this chip is simply a better laptop chip (if they can add altivec} if they can't or won't as i suppose than apple can in these econimic times have a setup like this soon:
Ibook 800g3 32vram Powerbook ti G3+ 800 +1MBDDR L3cache 32Vram
14" dvd/cdrw $149930GB 15.2" dvd/cdrw $199940GB

Ibook 900g3 32vram Powerbook ti G4 900 +1MBDDR L3 cache 64Vram
14" dvd/cdrw $169940GB 15.2dvd/cdrw $2499 60GB

Powerbook ti 1GHZ +2MB L3cache 64Vram+free case
15.2 Superdrive$3199 60GB 8meg buffer

Their are a ton of people who want the ibook but only with 32 vram for quartz extreme, and just as many that want a ti book for under $2000, and many dont really need altivec.

The sahara should be a superb chip for upgrade manufactuers. Just think by next year you could have possibly fanless older imacs, cubes,{100MHZ bus models}, powerbooks, lombards, and pismos, titaniums, not to metion new and old wolrd macs, provided they could get the multiplier up there, All running at between 1-1.5 GHZ and all at between $300-$500 because this chip is much cheaper than the G4.
peace
 
Originally posted by Beej
As has been discussed many times before, using higher-MHz G3s in consumer Macs than the G4s used in pro Macs would be a PR nightmare. You don't see AMD offering Durons faster than their Athlons, and you don't see Intel offering celery faster than the PIVs.

Fast G3s are nice, but what some of you are talking about just wont happen.
Click to expand...

how many times are people going to say this. its been happening for a while now and no PR disasters. look. 700MHz iBook...667MHz TiBook. There it is.
 
Originally posted by ftaok
If the 1ghz G3 was ready, then someone would be using it. Even IBM doesn't use it.

IBM tends to release information about their chips way in advance. They were talking about a 1ghz G3 (in Press Releases) last November, but it wasn't until May 2002 that we saw a 700mhz G3 (Sahara) being used.

I'm not certain if a 1Ghz G3 will ever be used by anyone.

BTW, I would trust anything I found on Geek.com. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

hey ftaok, long time no see!

a lot of rumors are out there hoping that the ibm g3 will save the mac due to its current slow clock speed compared to the pc world

if there was a running 1 ghz sahara chip, in this case a mobile version which should be out by now according to rumors about the 1.5 desktop version, i think ibook would use it straight away to increase sales

the pros would still stay with the tibook with more ports, altivec, and sleek titanium look
 
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