Sahara G3 has 200MHZ bus but being held back at 100MHZ and also a 1.5GHZ G3 in works!

[ftaok]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


hey ftaok, long time no see!

a lot of rumors are out there hoping that the ibm g3 will save the mac due to its current slow clock speed compared to the pc world

if there was a running 1 ghz sahara chip, in this case a mobile version which should be out by now according to rumors about the 1.5 desktop version, i think ibook would use it straight away to increase sales

the pros would still stay with the tibook with more ports, altivec, and sleek titanium look

jef,

Personally, I think the 1ghz G3 may be ready (although I haven't heard of it being used by anyone). And I can't imagine that IBM's current customers for 750-series chips (mainly printer OEMs) have a real need for a 1Ghz chip. I don't think that there is 1.5Ghz coming soon. IBM hasn't even issued a press release on it (they tend to announce stuff WAY in advance).

I was wrong about the iBook getting a G4 before, but I can't see Apple continuing with the G3 for very much longer. Since we didn't see a new PowerMac at MWNY, I think that when they do announce the new PMacs, they'll be pretty snazzy. The TiBook could see a bump to 1 (or 1.2 if the PowerMacs get dual-1.6). Then they could put an 800mhz 7445 (Apollo with no L3) into the iBook.

NOTE: these are all conjectures based only on voodoo and black magic.

BTW jef, good luck on your goal of 160.

BTW2, I was posting a lot more often a few months ago, but some of the "heavy posters" have turned this board into a warzone. It's not as fun as it used to be. I'm mainly on "lurking" mode these days.

BTW3, GO DREXEL!

 

[david2371]

Apple wouldent give the iBOOK a 1GHZ G3 right now because the G4 TI BOOK is only at 800MHZ and apple dosent make consumore machines with higher MHZ then pro ones because a 1GHZ iBOOK would take sales from the 800MHZ Ti BOOK.The 700MHZ chip in the ibook is actually an 800MHZ chip downclocked to 700MHZ.

 

[ftaok]

Originally posted by david2371
Apple wouldent give the iBOOK a 1GHZ G3 right now because the G4 TI BOOK is only at 800MHZ and apple dosent make consumore machines with higher MHZ then pro ones because a 1GHZ iBOOK would take sales from the 800MHZ Ti BOOK. The 700MHZ chip in the ibook is actually an 800MHZ chip downclocked to 700MHZ.

Apple has had the iBook at higher mhz than the TiBook before, so that's not an issue.

Also, saying that the 700mhz G3 in the iBook is a downclocked 800mhz chip is like saying that the 1ghz G4 is a downclocked 1.2ghz G4. You have to realized that these chips are sampled and then speed rated. You can have a 700mhz chip that is stable at 800mhz, but you could also fry it as well.

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by ftaok
jef,

Personally, I think the 1ghz G3 may be ready (although I haven't heard of it being used by anyone). And I can't imagine that IBM's current customers for 750-series chips (mainly printer OEMs) have a real need for a 1Ghz chip. I don't think that there is 1.5Ghz coming soon. IBM hasn't even issued a press release on it (they tend to announce stuff WAY in advance).

I was wrong about the iBook getting a G4 before, but I can't see Apple continuing with the G3 for very much longer. Since we didn't see a new PowerMac at MWNY, I think that when they do announce the new PMacs, they'll be pretty snazzy. The TiBook could see a bump to 1 (or 1.2 if the PowerMacs get dual-1.6). Then they could put an 800mhz 7445 (Apollo with no L3) into the iBook.

NOTE: these are all conjectures based only on voodoo and black magic.

BTW jef, good luck on your goal of 160.

BTW2, I was posting a lot more often a few months ago, but some of the "heavy posters" have turned this board into a warzone. It's not as fun as it used to be. I'm mainly on "lurking" mode these days.

BTW3, GO DREXEL!

thanks for the encouragement...the last ten pounds is always tough

i see some life in the g3 since it has a huge 512k level two cache on the chip that runs at processor speed

i can see the g3 in the ibook through at least october then switching to g4 for christmas or at mwsf...hopefully

but if need be, apple could probably hold off the g4 in the ibook until second quarter 2003

if the g3 makes it past that, then it will certainly scale well above 1 ghz and deserve a place in the apple lineup

 

[daveg5]

there is a 1ghz g3 available now for purchase in lots of 10000
there been a 1 ghz ti g4 spotted
apple will not let a 1 GHZ g3 ibook out until they have a 1GHZ g4 tibook out
and then they will underclock it to 900 just like they are doing with the ibooks now 700=800=700. or the ibook would possibly beat the powerbook at all non altivec/videocard based benchmarks
Does anyone out there have a 700 ibook software realclocked to 800mhz if so can we have somebenchmarks
peace

 

[ftaok]

Originally posted by daveg5
there is a 1ghz g3 available now for purchase in lots of 10000

Dave,

do you have this information published somewhere? I'm very curious to the pricing of the Sahara G3.

 

[daveg5]

oops my bad, i can almost swear I read about thier release and prices somewhere . however there website is so confusing and does not seem to give that info even on the 700mhz but if my memory is correct the 700 is under $100 in large quantities.
If any one else has info as to were ibm has their prices posted for the 750 series please post. my oops
peace

 

[daveg5]

does anyone know for sure whether the ibook 700 is underclocked or not
I think it is because I know of no other powerpc processor that lets you up the clock speed thru software. actually is there any way to prove it one way or another? I guess only Apple and IBM know for sure and I doubt they they would admit it because if they say yes they would possibly be liable for any failed overclocked machine

 

[Catfish_Man]

I'm not sure what you mean by underclocked...

Originally posted by daveg5
does anyone know for sure whether the ibook 700 is underclocked or not
I think it is because I know of no other powerpc processor that lets you up the clock speed thru software. actually is there any way to prove it one way or another? I guess only Apple and IBM know for sure and I doubt they they would admit it because if they say yes they would possibly be liable for any failed overclocked machine

...if you mean it's capable of running at a higher clock frequency, then you're right. ALL chips are underclocked then. I've never heard of a chip that you couldn't overclock at all. The 750fx just lets you do it in software like some x86 chips.
To the person who was saying it would be nice if all apps took advantage of Altivec: Guess what, they do. Many parts of the OSX libraries/APIs/etc... are Altivec accelerated. For example, anything that uses Quartz (all non-java, non-quickdraw programs) is automatically slightly boosted by Altivec. I'm a little unclear on why people keep bashing Altivec, it's the only part of the G4+ that's still ahead of the competition.
To all the people saying the 750fx is better than the 7455 (G4+): It's a smaller, less sophiscated chip that happens to be made on a better manufacturing process. This allows for higher clock frequencies, lower power, and larger cache. When the G4+ goes .13 micron it'll have everything the 750fx has, plus Altivec, plus better cache, plus higher clock frequencies, plus a better FPU.
Also, the revision of the 750fx in the iBook is 1.2, last I heard. The 1GHz one that supports a 200MHz Single Data Rate bus is 2.0

 

[matador]

1.5 G$

Apple could theoreticall, rename the Ti PowerBook to Simply PowerBook Titanium and attach dual g3's. I am not exactly what it would take to do that, but they could still keep the iBooks at 1ghz and the Pro version at dual processors. (which in battery mode, would only use one processor to presserve life).

It took intel a long time to come out with a P4 mobility, so it might be easier and faster to put 2 g3's in a powerbook with ddr. and I can guarantee you that people would buy.

 

[alex_ant]

Re: 1.5 G$

Originally posted by matador
Apple could theoreticall, rename the Ti PowerBook to Simply PowerBook Titanium and attach dual g3's. I am not exactly what it would take to do that, but they could still keep the iBooks at 1ghz and the Pro version at dual processors. (which in battery mode, would only use one processor to presserve life).

It took intel a long time to come out with a P4 mobility, so it might be easier and faster to put 2 g3's in a powerbook with ddr. and I can guarantee you that people would buy.

That would be a good idea, but the G3 doesn't support multiprocessing.

 

[matador]

g3 doesn't support multiprocessing

that could change though..

 

[jefhatfield]

Re: g3 doesn't support multiprocessing

Originally posted by matador
that could change though..

the only place i know of where the g3 is multiprocessor is in some models of the long-lived IBM AS 400 server computer...i have a major client with some of those machines

as to whether the g3 could be put into an ordinary desktop machine as a dualie may be a different matter

from what i have heard several times here, the g3 incarnation used in apple machines is only a single processor g3

 

[daveg5]

to catfishman

What i meant was i heard rumors, probably not true, that the 600 and 700MHZ chips in the current Ibooks are really 700 and 800 chips, the old imac g3 ended at 700 MhZ, and the new sahara g3-512cache starts at 700MHZ, but Apple may have purposely bought tons a 700 and 800 chips, but faster mobile g4 chips were behind schedule, and they did not want the IBOOK to outbench the POWERBOOK in all things non altivec/videoram related, which a 800MHZ Ibook would certaily do, so they, in software, took them down a hundred MHZ, and when the 1GHZ G4 is released, wallah! they will put them up a hundred. No new chips to buy no new parts to assemble, if true it would be quite clever.
Obviously, this is far fetch but stranger things have happened that I never thought would happen, like our $129 upgrade to 10.2 and $49-$99 versions of itools , extra-cost mpeg4 for Quicktime pro users, Apple talk of using password sercurity{ala microsoft} and MOTO's inability tocache up to AMD-INTEL in processor speed. its 20021/2 and will still dont have a single processor mac at 1GHZ,gee.
I agree with you that all or almost all chips are underclocked to some degree for stable operation but by the same token all chips are overclocked for speed
i know i overclocked my g450MHZ upgrade card on my 8600, but to do so I had to underclock my cache and vice versa until a fast stable setting was found.
peace

 

[alex_ant]

Re: Re: g3 doesn't support multiprocessing

Originally posted by jefhatfield


the only place i know of where the g3 is multiprocessor is in some models of the long-lived IBM AS 400 server computer...i have a major client with some of those machines

as to whether the g3 could be put into an ordinary desktop machine as a dualie may be a different matter

from what i have heard several times here, the g3 incarnation used in apple machines is only a single processor g3

Are you sure those were PPC 750s? I thought they were PPC RS64s or Power2s / 3s or 604e's or something.

 

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by iGAV


Don't forget that OSX also recognises and uses Altivec..... and there's alot more than a handful of apps that support Altivec...... so stop speaking ****e..... also when it comes to serious number crunching Altivec is mighty........ there's little point in dissing Altivec really is there??? anything that makes a chip faster is good right??

The current G3 doesn't kick arse....... simple as that..... I'd take the current G4 PowerBook over the iBook anyday of the week...... and all this talk of a hypothetical 1.5GHZ G3 really is a waste of time... because as far as we know it doesn't exist........

Well, there may be two handfulls of applications which support AltiVec, including those from Apple. I've gone through the documentation and it's a big deal to set up.

Obviously, some applications benefit such as audio and video encoding. Blast took a lot of work to use AltiVec well.

Besides all this, AltiVec doesn't support double precision floating point (real) numbers, so the pared-down floating point unit has to handle them...slowly.

 

[bousozoku]

Re: Re: g3 doesn't support multiprocessing

Originally posted by jefhatfield


the only place i know of where the g3 is multiprocessor is in some models of the long-lived IBM AS 400 server computer...i have a major client with some of those machines

as to whether the g3 could be put into an ordinary desktop machine as a dualie may be a different matter

from what i have heard several times here, the g3 incarnation used in apple machines is only a single processor g3

The AS/400 database machine originally used the PowerPC AS processor, which was a version of the PowerPC 620...the first 64-bit processor in the line.

Later, it used versions of the Power2 and Power3 processors.