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There are a couple of issues here. First, the TV rentals may include content that the ATV1 can't play, such as 25fps/30fps 720p resolution. Second, the rental model for TV shows may require an update to the ATV1 software and Apple may not be willing to "roll" another release of the ATV1 software (at least not yet).

They're the same shows they're already renting, dude. They're not making special versions just for rentals so point one is wrong. Secondly, all other buy/rentals are iTunes store based, not dependent on the software, so I see no excuse here. And if they're unwilling to update the software to include something that will increase their rentals, they're not only stupid but they're insulting all prior people who bought the original model for the past several years, including ones that bought it just a few months ago. Apple is removing support for things that are still WAY too new. Again, I'm not asking for new features, just the ability to rent a TV show once in awhile. I have ZERO interest in BUYING tv shows PERIOD. But I might want to rent something like Dr. Who in HD since I cannot get it in HD on my cable system.

Why do you continually expect Apple to upgrade your old Apple TV to have the latest features. It does all it says it would when you bought, plus loads more.

Get over yourself and move on.

You are freaking utterly CLUELESS dude. Get a clue before you respond or your posts will just look ridiculous like this one does. That's not a new feature. It's just a new sales option (same content, different method of distribution and if you think the original ATV is incapable of playing it, just look at the sales option for the exact same episodes. They don't even have to change the software. It's already set up to rent iTunes store content; clearly they are purposely blocking it by checking which model you have). Besides, they were selling the old model just a few months ago. Even Apple should have a responsibility not to abandon something that isn't even a year old out of sales.

As for attitude, you get over yourself. You are not god so I don't give a flying crap about your opinions if you're going to act like a little kid.
 
Paradox00,

I am running whatever the latest version of MacOS is on my iMac. I'v never had any experience with Windows 7 but I am sure it is not pleasant, and I really wish that was the solution to my ATV2's issues.

That's too bad. I can view my mac iTunes library fine but I've been unable to get my iTunes library on my win 7 PC to show up on my mac or Apple TV through home sharing.
 
Dude It is $99 and it is an IOS device....and it is $99...and it is quiet and fast and slick.

Apps will come and when that happens it is all over for everything else.

8GB space is enough...there will always be bigger capacity AppleTv in the near future...

Yes the fact it is quiet and it does not burn my hand when I touch it is very nice. But I'm just saying the best is yet to come with AppleTV. There is really not much new in the way of features when you upgrade (i.e.: every feature you get is paired with something you lose).

+Netflix / -Ability to Purchase Content
+Home Share / -iTunes Extras

Eventually I hope to say:
+ Apps (like SlingPlayer, Hulu, ABC, etc...)
+ Add-Supported Free Video from major networks
+ AirPlay video streaming from any iPad App with video
+ Ability to buy and stream now and download to iTunes later
+ Ability to buy and store in the cloud (new data center?)
+ iTunes Extras for the DVD-like experience (menu, bonus features, even optional automatically-played previews -- i like previews)
etc.... etc....

There is much potential now that the device is iOS, but right now it looks alot like the same old interface I've had for quite some time. Apple is moving quietly on this, but I think they will be dropping some bombs before the end of the year.

EDIT/ADDITION: For now the price-point is enticing enough in that allows me to get an AppleTV in a second room for cheap.
 
You are forgetting the $229 remote. iPod Touch. But still a remote that costs 231% more expensive is an issue about as much as one that is 505% more .

Even though the Ipad is the best AppleTV remote...the logitech harmony remotes work awesome on the AppleTv 2 also!
 
My 65-inch HDTV only has component and DVI input. How would you guys suggest I go about making ATV2 work with this thing?
 
fpnc said:
There are a couple of issues here. First, the TV rentals may include content that the ATV1 can't play, such as 25fps/30fps 720p resolution. Second, the rental model for TV shows may require an update to the ATV1 software and Apple may not be willing to "roll" another release of the ATV1 software (at least not yet).
They're the same shows they're already renting [I think you meant offering for purchase], dude. They're not making special versions just for rentals so point one is wrong. Secondly, all other buy/rentals are iTunes store based, not dependent on the software, so I see no excuse here...
How do you know that ALL of the new TV rentals can be played on the ATV1? I know that Apple use to offer down-sized copies (960x540 @ 25fps) of some of the BBC HD content which I believe was done because the original Apple TV only supported 720p at 24fps. And what makes you think that there aren't multiple versions of the TV shows -- they have both standard definition and high definition so what's wrong with having a version that will only play on the ATV2 and Macs/PCs? You aren't going to see any 25fps 720p or 30fps 720p on the ATV1, but those will play on the ATV2, iPad, iPhone 4, newest iPod touch, and Macs/PCs.

As far as your second claim ("all other buy/rentals are iTunes store based"), I'm surprised that you have full access to and complete knowledge of the Apple TV source code since I doubt that you work at Apple. ;) There could be a very simple technical reason why the ATV1 software can't support TV rentals, such as knowledge that the show must time out 48 hours after you begin viewing even if the Apple TV is completely disconnected from the internet and the iTunes Store.

I'm not claiming that these ARE the reasons, just that they MAY be the reason. Also, the original Apple TV contracts with the TV studios may not include the rights for rentals and Apple and/or the TV studios may not have wanted to renegotiate those terms for the installed base of ATV1 users.

In any case, if there is real money to be made in TV rentals then I'm fairly confident that Apple will update the ATV1 to support them. However, you've got to remember that several of the participating TV studios have already suggested that iTunes TV rentals are at present a test or trial program -- there is no guarantee that they will even continue.
 
Got it and love it!

So glad to replace the 300+W power consuming PS3 with a 6W device and get all my netflix and media streaming needs taken care of.

Also, unlike the PS3, apple TV plays well great Harmony remote control and so no need to fumble around or remember to charge another remote.

Netflix streaming quality is superb even for standard def. 720p is (LOST!) outstanding in picture quality, even giving my 1080i Fios channels a run for its money.

Can't wait for airplay - hope I can push video from "abc" app from iPad to the apple TV. Oh wait, iPad as media remote — awesome. It is sweet to see the entire 'ecosystem' in play: iPad browses through seamlessly my 500GB iTunes library and my selection gets pushed to appleTV.

The only thing I would like improved is iTunes being have to open and me logged in - I like to log off after certain inactivity time, and in that case, iPad and apple TV won't be able to access my media from the computer. I would like a service to run at the back end, once it is authenticated with account and credentials, thereby be 'independent' of log-in status.

Even more awesome would be multiplayer games on Apple TV..much like the scabble game for the iPad+iPhone/iPod touch combinations.... can't wait!!!
:D:D
 
As far as your second claim ("all other buy/rentals are iTunes store based"), I'm surprised that you have full access to and complete knowledge of the Apple TV source code since I doubt that you work at Apple. ;) There could

I don't need access to source code, dude. It's plain to see that certain movies change from rental only to buy only and back to rental AND buy and/or buy SD only to HD, etc. if you keep track of any movies what-so-ever. I didn't get software updates here for those changes to happen. The software hasn't been updated for a long time. I can back-date my ATV to Version 2.0 (in firmware) and those same rental/buy changes still appear here. It's the store that determines what you can buy/rent/preview, etc., not the software. It only cares about the format.

be a very simple technical reason why the ATV1 software can't support TV rentals, such as knowledge that the show must time out 48 hours after you begin viewing even if the Apple TV is completely disconnected from the internet and the iTunes Store.

Yeah, the 1st gen ATV doesn't know ANYTHING about timing out rentals.... :rolleyes:

I'm not claiming that these ARE the reasons, just that they MAY be the reason. Also, the original Apple TV contracts with the TV studios may not include the rights for rentals and Apple and/or the TV studios may not have wanted to renegotiate those terms for the installed base of ATV1 users.

I don't see a difference between a license for the two models. The content should be the same (M4V). Even IF new content for the new system is 720@30fps, they still obviously have the 720@24 available because they're selling it. I doubt it would be that difficult to rent the stuff that is already converted and available for sale. They probably need little more than to be flagged rent-able like the movies.


In any case, if there is real money to be made in TV rentals then I'm fairly confident that Apple will update the ATV1 to support them. However, you've got to remember that several of the participating TV studios have already suggested that iTunes TV rentals are at present a test or trial program -- there is no guarantee that they will even continue.

The whole Apple TV experience is a trial, it seems. Jobs has no interest in advertising them. He has no interest in listening to user feedback. He has no interest in supporting old hardware, whether it's iPhones or Macbook Pros. Apple has purposely kept new features from working on older models even when they are 100% capable of using them (from video on iPhone 1.0 to H264 decoding on 2008 era Macbook Pros). You simply cannot count on Apple to support their products for more than a year these days. Part of the reason is that Apple WANTS to force new hardware sales since that's where they get most of their money.

However, the problem here is not the price of a new Apple TV (they're cheap) but rather that my receiver does not support HDMI switching and the new Apple TV does not provide component output. Thus, It's not just $99 for a new Apple TV to get whatever new features I might prefer, but I'd have to buy a new receiver as well (probably $400 minimum for the same brand base model, considerably more for higher quality models) or use an outboard switch. So whereas it might have cost Apple $2 more to include component output on the new model, it will cost me $500+ to switch over and thus the primary reason I'd rather see rentals available on the old model seeing as most are already available to BUY in HD on the same model. Offering a rental version of the same video would not entail much on Apple's part (regardless of whether you believe my take on store versus software). Their attitude seems to be, too bad. We don't support software updates for the old model anymore, as if it's our fault that they kept using Tiger all these years and waited so long to update the hardware, which still offers very little in the way of improvements over the old model so far other than price (and removes a lot of storage).

I'm not saying I'd rent a LOT of TV shows, but there has been the odd occasion where I miss a 1st run episode or cannot get the HD version of the show on my cable system where it would come in handy. I guess Bit Torrent would be more handy than Apple for that situation given the lack of support. After all, that seems to be the way the studios want it by not offering flexibility. They want you to buy BD and/or DVD full seasons of TV shows, not simply rent an episode you missed. I don't call that reasonable, personally.
 
fpnc said:
There could be a very simple technical reason why the ATV1 software can't support TV rentals, such as knowledge that the show must time out 48 hours after you begin viewing even if the Apple TV is completely disconnected from the internet and the iTunes Store.
I don't need access to source code, dude...Yeah, the 1st gen ATV doesn't know ANYTHING about timing out rentals.... :rolleyes:
You do realize that the timeout period for movie rentals has from day one been 24 hours, while for the newly introduced TV rentals it is 48 hours. This new and explicit 48 hour period as well as portions of the support for TV rentals may be embedded in the ATV2 software and could be totally absent from the ATV1.
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I don't see a difference between a license for the two models.
Now you seem to be implying that you have knowledge about the confidential licensing terms between Apple and the TV studios.
MagnusVonMagnum said:
The content should be the same (M4V). Even IF new content for the new system is 720@30fps, they still obviously have the 720@24 available because they're selling it...
Earlier you were saying that this couldn't be the case (you claimed that you knew that they had only one version -- same for rentals as for purchases). You can't argue both sides, but I'll at least admit that I don't know one way or the other, I'm just stating possibilities.
MagnusVonMagnum said:
The whole Apple TV experience is a trial, it seems. Jobs has no interest in advertising them. He has no interest in listening to user feedback...
You could be right here, as rumors have suggested that Steve Jobs isn't too keen on the marketability of the Apple TV. But you really can't blame Steve too much, since his main objections seem to be about the content licensing terms (viewed as unfavorable by both consumers and Apple) and the difficulty in competing against the ubiquitous set-top-boxes that are given out by the cable companies as part of their monthly subscription services.

As to your other comments, I think you're looking a bit too hard for anti-consumer conspiracies in Apple's business practices.

As for the HDMI versus component video issue, you may be interested to know that starting next year you won't be able to buy Blu-ray players that include HD-enabled analog outputs. It's called the analog sunset. Furthermore, the following has been reported:
[taken from media.extron.com] While not governed by AACS analog sunset requirements, online services such as Apple iTunes® that offer protected content for download or streaming, may require limitations on analog outputs. But this would depend on the policies of the particular service in question, and whatever agreements the service has with content owners such as the Motion Picture Association of America - MPAA.
Thus, if Apple had included component outputs on the new Apple TV they MAY have been prevented from passing protected HD content through those ports starting as early as Jan. 1, 2011. Given this, it probably made absolutely no sense for Apple to introduce a new product that had component outputs (unless you'd be happy viewing the content at a restricted 480i resolution -- that's part of the requirements for the analog sunset agreement).
 
You do realize that the timeout period for movie rentals has from day one been 24 hours, while for the newly introduced TV rentals it is 48 hours. This new and explicit 48 hour period as well as portions of the support for TV rentals may be embedded in the ATV2 software and could be totally absent from the ATV1.

And even if that were the case, how long would it take to update it to support 48 hours? 20 seconds? Apple TV in Europe has 48 hours so I'm pretty sure it's already there regardless.

Now you seem to be implying that you have knowledge about the confidential licensing terms between Apple and the TV studios.

No, I'm saying both players are "Apple TV" and they play the same M4V files. Why would there be separate licenses?

Earlier you were saying that this couldn't be the case (you claimed that you

I doubt it is the case, but I'm saying even if I'm wrong, the purchase versions are 720@24fps or I couldn't buy them on my 1st gen ATV and thus there is no reason the couldn't offer those versions up for rent with a simple change to the store script. I'm getting the impression you just want to argue for arguments sake. I simply want the option to rent a TV show once in a blue moon without having to buy an entire new device and receiver in order to do so right now when clearly there is no physical limitation here nor any "onerous" software updates to enable that one simple feature.

As for the HDMI versus component video issue, you may be interested to know that starting next year you won't be able to buy Blu-ray players that include HD-enabled analog outputs. It's called the analog sunset. Furthermore, the following has been reported:

Thus, if Apple had included component outputs on the new Apple TV they MAY have been prevented from passing protected HD content through those ports starting as early as Jan. 1, 2011. Given this, it probably made absolutely no sense for Apple to introduce a new product that had component outputs (unless you'd be happy viewing the content at a restricted 480i resolution -- that's part of the requirements for the analog sunset agreement).

I guess it's a shame that all our televisions don't suddenly die or get replaced by Santa Clause with ones that have HDMI. My friend's 57" Panasonic HDTV is now 11 years old and counting and working like new still. It has no HDMI. My receiver from just 3.5 years ago has no HDMI switching (they had a model that did, but it was $500 more and had NO other features at the time so it was ridiculous). The problem here is this stuff is NOT out of date because TV standards don't change very often. The industry is in a hurry for the simple reason they hope to control piracy through digital only, but obviously that is stupid since everything digital has already been hacked to death from DVD to Blu-Ray and isn't protected anyway so I fail to see the point in eliminating analog at this stage. The cat has long since gotten out of the bag and no one really uses component recorders now anyway. So it's really MOOT except from a convenience aspect (one cable).
 
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