Samsung Galaxy Note 5 Design Flaw

[Surf Donkey]

Lmao!!!! Who said any fail safe device is worthless? Dude, please just stop you are now coming up with all kinds of things that were never said.
.

Real simple, just answer the question. If it is not worthless, why are you arguing against it?

 

[Tsepz]

Real simple, just answer the question. If it is not worthless, why are you arguing against it?

We are not arguing against. We are pointing out that there is now flaw here, the manual says don't put it backwards, the clicker is an indication not to put the stylus backwards, its your fault if you ignore both. Its like me parking my car on a parking bay withdry leaves, despite the manual saying not to, its very easy to do but I won't do it, as I know the dangers.

This is why you get: INSURANCE.

 

[Surf Donkey]

We are not arguing against. We are pointing out that there is now flaw here, the manual says don't put it backwards, the clicker is an indication not to put the stylus backwards, its your fault if you ignore both. Its like me parking my car on a parking bay withdry leaves, despite the manual saying not to, its very easy to do but I won't do it, as I know the dangers.

This is why you get: INSURANCE.

So you are backing poor engineering as long as it is covered in the manual?

 

[Tsepz]

So you are backing poor engineering as long as it is covered in the manual?

Its not poor engineering when it does what its supposed to, hold the stylus.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Its not poor engineering when it does what its supposed to, hold the stylus.

But it does allow for something is not supposed to do, slide in and break functionality. As you said, it would be better if it didn't do this. It would be better than just a line in the manual. Again, I am not stuck on the word flaw like others here seem to be. I call it poor engineering. You call it what you will.

 

[Tsepz]

But it does allow for something is not supposed to do, slide in and break functionality. As you said, it would be better if it didn't do this. It would be better than just a line in the manual. Again, I am not stuck on the word flaw like others here seem to be. I call it poor engineering. You call it what you will.

Again, as do MANY things, smartphone screens crack or shatter when dropped, components malfunction when the phone is submerged.

By your definition, almost everything in a phone allows failure easily.

 

[pdqgp]

This is why you get: INSURANCE.[/QUOTE]

But it does allow for something is not supposed to do, slide in and break functionality.

Yes....when inserted INCORRECTLY by the users It's no different than damage caused by anything that's used incorrectly. Headphones cause hearing loss when turned up too far. Poor engineering or user error? I mean they can configure headphones to max out so why don't they? My kids headphones max out and prevent hearing loss. Call it what you will but in the end, hearing loss is user error.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Again, as do MANY things, smartphone screens crack or shatter when dropped, components malfunction when the phone is submerged.

By your definition, almost everything in a phone allows failure easily.

No, its not the same thing. This is where you guys keep failing at the argument. You try to apply it to EVERYTHING. These aren't comparable scenarios.

The stylus is something that is removed on the phone many times a day and put back in. It is a key feature on the phone. With that much important usage, in good engineer practices, the design should specifically be tested to not break the device. Especially with easy to execute user error.

If there was a stop that made you have to jam it in even, then the engineers did their job. But there is nothing. It goes in just as easily forward as it does backwards. Tests were probably done inserting and removing the spen to simulate 10s of thousands of reinserts. Just to see how it would withstand the usage.

At no time, in any of these test, did not one engineer think to see if it allow backwards insertion? And if so, what are the ramifications? If they did, and knew even 100 "idiots" would do this, don't you think they would have wanted to prevent it?

 

[Fernandez21]

Here is a good video showing what happening when you insert the pen back words and how to get it out without damaging the phone incase this ever happens to you.

 

[pdqgp]

The stylus is something that is removed on the phone many times a day and put back in. It is a key feature on the phone. With that much important usage, in good engineer practices, the design should specifically be tested to not break the device. Especially with easy to execute user error.

Same could be said about just about any device. The phone itself is the key component of the device for any user. I use my phone to make calls every day. I'm ticked that the design should have been tested more and not break if I were to drop it on concrete. It's an easy to execute user error and yet more often than not I end up with a cracked screen. Poor design ? I mean I dropped my old 1990's phones all the time and never broke them. Why the step backwards? At what point do we blame the user vs a manufacturer?

If there was a stop that made you have to jam it in even, then the engineers did their job. But there is nothing. It goes in just as easily forward as it does backwards. Tests were probably done inserting and removing the spen to simulate 10s of thousands of reinserts. Just to see how it would withstand the usage.

Continue to ignore my E85 gas pump example. Me thinks users of E85 also have Note series phones.

At no time, in any of these test, did not one engineer think to see if it allow backwards insertion? And if so, what are the ramifications?

and at any point did the makers of sun tan lotion in spray bottles not think my kids could confuse it for silly string or cheese whiz? I mean any accidental ingestions or lotion all over my house can't be my fault as a parent right?

If they did, and knew even 100 "idiots" would do this, don't you think they would have wanted to prevent it?

I stand by my point that they probably didn't expect even 100 people to be that dumb.

 

[Surf Donkey]

Here is a good video showing what happening when you insert the pen back words and how to get it out without damaging the phone incase this ever happens to you.

Nice... something useful in this thread 🙂 I expect to see an official "SPen removal tool" from Samsung soon.

 

[LadyX]

I don't see this as being a design flaw. They have warned about this in the manual.

 

[Surf Donkey]

If your point is that the engineers knew about this, but did nothing about it because they didn't think anyone is this "dumb". Then point taken. End topic for me. It says something about Samsung engineering for sure.

 

[I7guy]

Same could be said about just about any device. The phone itself is the key component of the device for any user. I use my phone to make calls every day. I'm ticked that the design should have been tested more and not break if I were to drop it on concrete. It's an easy to execute user error and yet more often than not I end up with a cracked screen. Poor design ? I mean I dropped my old 1990's phones all the time and never broke them. Why the step backwards? At what point do we blame the user vs a manufacturer?



Continue to ignore my E85 gas pump example. Me thinks users of E85 also have Note series phones.



and at any point did the makers of sun tan lotion in spray bottles not think my kids could confuse it for silly string or cheese whiz? I mean any accidental ingestions or lotion all over my house can't be my fault as a parent right?




I stand by my point that they probably didn't expect even 100 people to be that dumb.

There are people in the world that lack common sense and these people are part of the nightly news. But the part about the spray on suntan lies squarely with the parents.

No matter how dismissive some in this forum may be of what appears to be design flaw I'm sure there will be an engineering fix at some point. Why have good hardware marred by this?

 

[pdqgp]

Nice... something useful in this thread 🙂 I expect to see an official "SPen removal tool" from Samsung soon.

Introducing the new Samsung S-Pen removal tool, which ironically can also be used to prevent S-Pen Jambs.



but if your tool is dull you can use a white sheet of paper to extract the S-Pen from your device.

 

[pdqgp]

There are people in the world that lack common sense and these people are part of the nightly news. But the part about the spray on suntan lies squarely with the parents.

Agree on both accounts. I've provided several more and better examples, but in the end users need to exhibit a little common sense too. When bad stuff happens they need to be accountable too.

I mean really, I've seen people mount directional tires on cars backwards and I've seen them rotated side to side which is incorrect too. Pure user error.

I'm sure there will be an engineering change at some point.

Agree.

 

[AustinIllini]

So you are backing poor engineering as long as it is covered in the manual?

The people in this argument don't understand. Having to put things in the manual or any other form of release notes is a failure for most companies. You don't want to have the customer have to go through manuals to work the thing.

 

[pdqgp]

You don't want to have the customer have to go through manuals to work the thing.

^^ Very odd statement to believe in. Sure, everyone wants fairly intuitive experience with their device. However, there's also an expectation that customers actually use the device correctly not incorrectly put things in backwards. Again, every device has a means to break it. It's simply not acceptable to dismiss the users role in the matter. No different that if I scratch the screen on my device by jabbing it in my bag with a set of keys.

 

[epicrayban]

The people in this argument don't understand. Having to put things in the manual or any other form of release notes is a failure for most companies. You don't want to have the customer have to go through manuals to work the thing.

I came out of my "retirement" from this thread to reply to specifically this.

Wait, what? You never had to use a manual to figure something out ever? Where exactly are you going with this line of thought? So only things that are designed poorly or flawed use manuals to explain how they work? I say again, what??? If something comes with a manual, it's a "failure for most companies?" You mean like Apple? Would you say Apple has failed given most, if not all, their products come with manuals, too? Manuals that do exactly what manuals are supposed to do; provide instructions, directions, warnings, etc.

Virtually everything comes with manuals. If one chooses to ignore the contents of the manual or not follow them, that's up to the individual user. But "having to put things in the manual or any other form of release notes is a failure..." is just puzzling to me.

 

[Tsepz]

If your point is that the engineers knew about this, but did nothing about it because they didn't think anyone is this "dumb". Then point taken. End topic for me. It says something about Samsung engineering for sure.

Yep, that its like all other engineering, it won't cover all mistakes, like everything else made by humans. Logic and common sense are required.

You finally get it! Congrats! 😀

 

[sartrekid]

oooooh burn. did you give yourself a high five? actually she was near blind for a good part of her life and had lots of assistance devices to help her with through the day. but in your eyes, she was just an dumbass who couldn't RTFM.

This is exactly what is bothering me about the discussion. Elderly people with deficits, people with handicaps, people with some form of mental or physical disabilities were definitely not considered this time around. Anyone who works in the medical/healthcare field, has older relatives (again, this does not apply to every old person, obviously), young people with specific mental/physical malfunctions, etc. are aware of the significance and (in some cases, legally required) accessibility considerations that go into a design. Samsung has neglected to accommodate this specific group of users with the design of the Note 5. Sure, for the majority of us who are healthy, the sensibility of the pen is a non-issue. For anyone else, it's pretty much a potentially costly oversight.

And it's not like you have to use brute force to break the functionality within a few seconds:

From a pure design perspective, the fact that the pen - the function that distinguishes the Note over any other flagship high-end phone - is practically useless is, at the very least, bad design. Samsung is known for making great and sturdy hardware. That Samsung could have intentionally created the design to allow a simple "user error" to break an 800 USD device within seconds seems very out of character for the company. So, it's either a flaw (most disagree) or an oversight. Fighting over which terminology best addresses the issue seems quite ludicrous to me as it doesn't make an iota of a difference to the consumer.

Anyhow, this isn't anything to get angry about, but it definitely is something Samsung should be taking care of in their next revision/model.

No, I don't have a Note 5 yet, but I was planning to get one for myself and one for my mother because of the pen feature as the pen would have helped her immensely with doing certain tasks, a feature no other flagship phones have. She's extremely smart with gadgets and modern technology, but she has a serious eye illness that doesn't allow her to distinguish certain shapes thus effectively making it too high a risk for me to potentially waste money on a device that is ridiculously fragile. I will still be getting a Note 5 when and if it's released in Europe but for my mom this device is no longer an option. And no, she is neither stupid nor careless. She's simply a smart person with a handicap, like millions and millions of other people.

 

[Tsepz]

This is exactly what is bothering me about the discussion. Elderly people with deficits, people with handicaps, people with some form of mental or physical disabilities were definitely not considered this time around. Anyone who works in the medical/healthcare field, has older relatives (again, this does not apply to every old person, obviously), young people with specific mental/physical malfunctions, etc. are aware of the significance and (in some cases, legally required) accessibility considerations that go into a design. Samsung has neglected to accommodate this specific group of users with the design of the Note 5. Sure, for the majority of us who are healthy, the sensibility of the pen is a non-issue. For anyone else, it's pretty much a potentially costly oversight.

And it's not like you have to use brute force to break the functionality within a few seconds:

From a pure design perspective, the fact that the pen - the function that distinguishes the Note over any other flagship high-end phone - is practically useless is, at the very least, bad design. Samsung is known for making great and sturdy hardware. That Samsung could have intentionally created the design to allow a simple "user error" to break an 800 USD device within seconds seems very out of character for the company. So, it's either a flaw (most disagree) or an oversight. Fighting over which terminology best addresses the issue seems quite ludicrous to me as it doesn't make an iota of a difference to the consumer.

Anyhow, this isn't anything to get angry about, but it definitely is something Samsung should be taking care of in their next revision/model.

No, I don't have a Note 5 yet, but I was planning to get one for myself and one for my mother because of the pen feature as the pen would have helped her immensely with doing certain tasks, a feature no other flagship phones have. She's extremely smart with gadgets and modern technology, but she has a serious eye illness that doesn't allow her to distinguish certain shapes thus effectively making it too high a risk for me to potentially waste money on a device that is ridiculously fragile. I will still be getting a Note 5 when and if it's released in Europe but for my mom this device is no longer an option. And no, she is neither stupid nor careless. She's simply a smart person with a handicap, like millions and millions of other people.

My granparents are elderly, both of them are academics, granfather was the 1st African to get a PhD in Physics down here during apartheid, he has been around the world and rubbed shoulders with some of the greatest minds, but he now suffers from Alzheimer's , and cannot use most tech, should I then be angry at Samsung if he breaks his Note5 or iPhone6 e.g. dropping it when he shakes? As that would mean he was not considered at all when they made them.

The point is, no device covers everyone, and I can certainly assure you the Notes skip many able bodied people when designed, they are large, cumbersome for most, so should we also chalk that up? As that is also the same as the SPen situation.

 

[sartrekid]

My granparents are elderly, both of them are academics, granfather was the 1st African to get a PhD in Physics down here during apartheid, he has been around the world and rubbed shoulders with some of the greatest minds, but he now suffers from Alzheimer's , and cannot use most tech, should I then be angry at Samsung if he breaks his Note5 or iPhone6 e.g. dropping it when he shakes? As that would mean he was not considered at all when they made them.

The point is, no device covers everyone, and I can certainly assure you the Notes skip many able bodied people when designed, they are large, cumbersome for most, so should we also chalk that up? As that is also the same as the SPen situation.

No, that is not the point I made. The point is that inserting a pen in the wrong direction, even just slightly and without brute force, should not break a device within seconds, just like you don't use aluminium that bends too easily (iPhone 6 - also bad design), just like you don't use light grey text on a white background in a website. These are standard considerations that apply to any design, be it architecture, a tangible item, or a digital product. It's the 101 of accessibility and pretty simple to adhere to.

 

[Surf Donkey]

No, that is not the point I made. The point is that inserting a pen in the wrong direction, even just slightly and without brute force, should not break a device within seconds, just like you don't use aluminium that bends too easily (iPhone 6 - also bad design), just like you don't use light grey text on a white background in a website. These are standard considerations that apply to any design, be it architecture, a tangible item, or a digital product. It's the 101 of accessibility and pretty simple.

They will just keep coming with slippery slope BS arguments. Save your time. You made an awesome point, thank you.

 

[Tsepz]

No, that is not the point I made. The point is that inserting a pen in the wrong direction, even just slightly and without brute force, should not break a device within seconds, just like you don't use aluminium that bends too easily (iPhone 6 - also bad design), just like you don't use light grey text on a white background in a website. These are standard considerations that apply to any design, be it architecture, a tangible item, or a digital product. It's the 101 of accessibility and pretty simple to adhere to.

But putting a phone in water even just a bit can render it useless. Its very easy to drop it or drop drinks on it, so surely a good design should prevent this.

So ultimately most devices are not well designed.

I'm not against Samsung making it more difficult to put the SPen backwards, but to say the design and engineering is bad is one hell of an overreaction as we can apply that to many many great products.