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I assume that some others here realize that 22 nM means a line width (or is it metallurgical junction?) of only 220 atoms? It's almost incredible that this stuff works at all (even at 28nM), let alone at decent yields.

The meaning of the process node name keeps changing.

It used to be that the process name specified a minimum feature size (smallest element). Then it was something like minimum gate size, where other features could be smaller.

At 22, I'm not sure what it means because I've heard conflicting definitions and I don't keep myself up to date in this realm. I'll ask some people next time they're in town for the conference; they love talking about this stuff.

But yeah, it is seriously incredible this stuff works at all.

Did you know part of metal gate lithography involves laying down a bunch of materials as scaffolding and then etching that away in order to make sure incompatible materials don't ever touch? Oh, and it happens across 9+ layers? And you have to change etchings in order to make sure you don't etch away stuff that's exposed that you want? It's ridiculous.
 
That's the lesson Apple needs to learn. Samsung produces everything from LCDs to NAND and SoCs which makes them independent, whereas Apple doesn't own a single factory. Without Samsung, Apple couldn't make a single iPhone or iPad but Samsung would do just fine without Apple, so who is feeding who?

Good point.
 
What makes you think, that the others can do it cheaper?

Smart suppliers might want to negotiate better deals unless Apple picks bankrupt suppliers like Sharp and trying to lift them from financial woes.

This increases the risk factor since they can't afford to have issues with their parts. Samsung somehow pulled this for Apple for so long.

Already Apple is having QC issues in few areas, hope this does not amplify further!
 
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At some point Apple will just find a new supplier and it'll hurt Samsung more in the end.

Good job.
Samsung is a huge company in it's own right. They have many different product lines, not all in electronics. It's really not dependent on Apple as a customer. However Apple currently depends on Samsung as a supplier.
 
Ha - not really cowboy. I generally think about things BEFORE making decisions/posting to internet forums. Something I would say a majority of people don't do enough of - so I guess you'd be correct in that regards.

Still, I stand by my initial hypothesis. At the basis of every decision lies a series of yes/no questions. Each person will answer a specific way and then defend said answer, as you so eloquently stated, based on various inputs - experiences, emotions, beliefs. NONE of this changes the fact that the brain makes small yes/no decisions to ultimately reach a more complex answer.

I wonder how, in your world, those decisions are made in the first place? I don't deny rationalization takes place - my statements never mentioned any thought processes after the decision, rather the conversation was regarding the core of decision making - before the decision. I suppose answers to decisions just come to you out of nothing and you rationalize the decision that came from nowhere based on your beliefs?

You should try reading up on the topic. You'd be surprised, and you wouldn't have to build straw men out of what I say in the process.

I'd call it counter-intuitive, but that would actually be just about exactly wrong. The human mind intuits its way to a decision, *then* collates the information available, connecting that information (factual or otherwise) to the decision after the fact. What we *think* is a rational decision making process is actually acting on our 'gut instincts' and then rationalizing the decision after the fact.

That process is probably the biggest part of why people can cling to beliefs well past the point where they have been proven completely and utterly without any basis in reality. (The 6000 year-old Earth, for example.)

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Oh good - another human :)

We really do exist!
 
Samsung Korea chaebol-mafia say to Apple: "You pay me now!"

You_37fff7_267547.png
 
Samsung sees the writing on the wall. They know Apple is entertaining other fabricators.

I have to call it out when I see people saying "This is the end for Samsung, This is the end for Apple. The writing is on the wall!"

In reality both companies are too big to fail anytime soon. Let's all be realistic. The falling out in the Apple-Samsung supplier relationship will hurt the finances of BOTH companies. But the hurt will be short term. Samsung will move on and find other customers. And Apple will eventually find a replacement supplier that's more amicable and more reasonable (they have been working on this transition for over a year now).

The hurt (for both Apple and Samsung) will be short term, possibly denting their profit margins a bit. The stock investors to both corporations will feel the effects (because stock performance is highly correlated to a company's profitability), but most consumers probably won't notice the effects.

Both companies have so much cash reserves that neither will be crippled or collapse due to this. They will move on and continue to be industry giants for years to come.

Let's cut out the hyperbole and the drama-queening here.
 
This makes Apple more likely to hasten their move away from Samsung. if this rumour is true. And Apple away from Samaung = $0 for Samaung as they won't be buying parts from Samsung anymore.

Lesson Samsung needs to learn.
"Don't bite the hand that feeds you cause one day the hand will stop feeding you if you keep biting it".

Missing many points because we all pay for this. Apple won't come up with the best products anymore as Sammy has the best display(better than LG) and chips(SSD better than Toshiba). It is you and me who are affected.

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Best post ever !

Samsung will be fine in the future and so will apple.

Samsung will be more stronger. They don't just make phones, computers, tablet, chips. Samsung builds almost everything. Only Apple builds phones, tablets, computers and music player. One of them is gone bad. Apple will be in trouble.
 
Apple uses TI in the Lightning connector and their battery packs.

But there's no way Apple will switch to using OMAP considering TI's trying to exit that market. Remember the rumors of Amazon buying a piece of TI? That'd be this part.

I understand that Apple wouldn't switch to OMAP, but I was suggesting that Apple might have a partner in chip production. TI opened a semi conductor plant in China 2 years ago, and TI is also expanding in Texas as is Apple. Apple has the designs and the new lead designer, and TI has the manufacturing base.
 
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Samsung will be more stronger. They don't just make phones, computers, tablet, chips. Samsung builds almost everything. Only Apple builds phones, tablets, computers and music player. One of them is gone bad. Apple will be in trouble.

Samsung has basically just stolen everything from Apple at this point. Samsung will NOT "be more stronger" - it will be more weaker.

Samsung tries to build anything and everything in the world. They even make the garbage trucks to cart it all away after it breaks. Apple focuses like a laser on nothing but insanely great products and then recycles them responsibly.
 
Yes... But since Apple is going to lose a few billions, tell me why they won't:

- Invest 20 billions on LG, resulting in samsungs loses (Apple business and the fact that LG will compete more with Samsung)
-Invest in Sharp (same thing with LG)
-TSMC (same)
-Sony.
-etc.

How many billions per year would samsung lose with all these companies upping their game with Apple paying them for memory, screens, flash, ram, etc? 10?20?50?

Don't forget foxconn.

With this sort of alternatives, Apple would win a lot, Samsung will suffer a lot.
Don't fool yourself, Apple can bring the hammer to samsung not only directly (small part) but also by investing in others. Also, samsung's credibility is down within other clients. What are the other companies thinking? Samsung can bite their hands too...

LG parts and products are crap. Samsung makes quality parts. Why do you think apple has been getting Samsung to supply them.
 
Samsung has basically just stolen everything from Apple at this point. Samsung will NOT "be more stronger" - it will be more weaker.

Samsung tries to build anything and everything in the world. They even make the garbage trucks to cart it all away after it breaks. Apple focuses like a laser on nothing but insanely great products and then recycles them responsibly.

Samsung stole television,fridges,computers,stoves,microwaves etc design from apple ? Samsung is a bigger company than apple lol some people here really think that apple is the biggest company in the world :eek:

With those garbage truck samsung will collect apple and dump it on the trailer park with all the "insanely great product" :cool:
 
Samsung has basically just stolen everything from Apple at this point. Samsung will NOT "be more stronger" - it will be more weaker.

Samsung tries to build anything and everything in the world. They even make the garbage trucks to cart it all away after it breaks. Apple focuses like a laser on nothing but insanely great products and then recycles them responsibly.

Lets also remember that Apple partnered with the thief (if Samsung indeed has stolen) for so long and reaped benefits from where they were since 2007.
 
The largest intellectual property is in the design...chip fab is pretty straight forward.

This is pure nonsense. Fabs are incredible difficult to make, because of all the integration challenges across tool suppliers. Never mind their cost. That's why so many big players have gone fabless.

As far as IP, designers need patents cause there is nothing else. But the firms that can compete with Intel you can count on one hand.

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I have several pcs with AMD processors. How do they not manufacture chips?

AMD has gone fabless. Like ARM, marvell, qualcomm, nvidea. They now design only. And this only works because of TSMC and a few others will contract manufacture - it's how to get the economies of scale to justify the fab costs.
 
This "war" has gotten less away from iOS vs Android and more about Apple and Samsung. Either way it's time to end all ties with Samsung. HTC and Microsoft both came to agreements with Apple about iOS technology like responsible companies. Apple settled with that Swiss Clock company like a responsible company. Samsung on the other hand refuses to license anything they stole from Apple, and cries every time Apple sues their ass and ask what did we do wrong. I hate Samsung's business ethics and I hate their crappy plastic products.

Is this the same ethical company you are speaking of that sues innocent companies? Apple are complete losers when it comes to ethics. What Samsung took from Apple in terms of copying was little to nothing.

Check out this bit of work from your precious Apple.

http://www.dailycurrant.com/2012/09/21/apple-sues-york-orchard-patent-infringement/
 
Without Apple, Samsung should be still selling 10 phones each month and RIM being the King.

Without Apple, Samsung should not have all the money to build all those factories.

That's why they already stopped the build of their next generation CPU factory in the south of Korea: because they lose Apple.

And it's also why Sharp is not dead yet: because Apple is funding them now with TMSC. Apple is now funding the biggest competitor of Samsung.

We will see how Samsung will handle that: losing money on one side, while this money is used to boost competition :rolleyes:

Riiiiiight. And without Bill Gates investing in Apple they would be out of business. Oh how quickly people forget. Only Apple fans can be so arrogant and elitist to take credit for all the technology of the universe.
 
Riiiiiight. And without Bill Gates investing in Apple they would be out of business. Oh how quickly people forget. Only Apple fans can be so arrogant and elitist to take credit for all the technology of the universe.

Its the kool-aid mate :(
 
The lesson here is to never have to rely on a single supplier for anything. Apple have left themselves vulnerable in having a single supplier for some of their components and that Supplier is now turning the screw. Apple have transitioned their LCD panel to other suppliers so they no longer have a single supplier problem there but I would say they are still a year away from dropping Samsung as a foundry for their processors. This is the reason they developed their own maps so they did not have to rely on Google, a competitor, for that functionality. That was handled badly but they have now removed that point of leverage Google had over them. In an extreme case Samsung could just stop making the processors and that would sink Apple. Now that isn't going to happen because the contractual fallout for Samsung would be huge but it just goes to show how vulnerable Apple has left itself by relying on a single supplier who is also a competitor for supply of a key component.

I agree. Plus, let's not forget Samsung also dropped Apple from their display manufacturing. This says a lot. It wasn't Apple dropping Samsung but the other way around. Koreans can be fierce competitors and unlike Japan they are not as hung up on playing nice. Apple started the battle but Samsung may win the war. Especially if Apple is unable to supply their products. People are more on the fence when deciding on a new phone. If the Samsung phone can be had today but an iphone is back ordered, many people will buy what they can touch.
 
What do you mean why?. Why not? For the same reason Samsung did it. Money. They are already a supplier of chips and have the manufacturing capability.

Only it would be better for apple because AMD and Intel are not competitors with apple. AMD and Intel are suppliers the same way intel provides the chips in the macs. They could supply the chips for IOS only using apples design.

This would be an incredibly easy way for Apple to kick Samsung to the curb relatively quickly.

Again, why would Apple contact AMD? They already design their own chips, so they don't need AMD for that and AMD doesn't have any manufacturing capacity at all.
 
Samsung has basically just stolen everything from Apple at this point. Samsung will NOT "be more stronger" - it will be more weaker.

Samsung tries to build anything and everything in the world. They even make the garbage trucks to cart it all away after it breaks. Apple focuses like a laser on nothing but insanely great products and then recycles them responsibly.

I remember when Samsung was known worldwide as "that Korean refrigerator company" back in the 1970s and 1980s. Until Sammy succeeded in toppling America's beloved GE (General Electrics), in part by stealing GE's patents and inventions. From what I read of that rivalry, this was REAL stealing, not patent design imitation. Stealing as in corporate espionage (Samsung spies and moles inside GE allegedly stealing blueprints, bribing engineers, etc). GE is still seething with hatred from that experience.

Apple is not the first American corporation that Sammy backstabbed. It certainly won't be the last.
 
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