Samsung says not all FinFET chips are created equal

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by MaciMac100, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. MaciMac100 macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    Samsung Announces Mass Production of 2nd Generation 14-Nanometer FinFET Logic Process Technology

    "Samsung Electronics, a world leader in advanced semiconductor technology, announced that it has begun mass production of advanced logic chips utilizing its 14nm LPP(Low-Power Plus) process, the 2nd generation of the company’s 14nm FinFET process technology.

    In leading mass production of advanced FinFET logic process, Samsung announced in Q1 of 2015 the launch of the Exynos 7 Octa processor built on the industry’s first 14nm LPE (Low-Power Early) process. With the new 14nm LPP process, Samsung continues to demonstrate its process technology leadership, and unparalleled performance and power efficiency for its Exynos 8 Octa processor and its many foundry customers including Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.. The Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 820 processor uses Samsung’s new 14nm LPP process and is expected to be in devices in the first half of this year.

    “We are pleased to start production of our industry-leading, 2nd generation 14nm FinFET process technology that delivers the highest level of performance and power efficiency” said Charlie Bae, Executive Vice President of Sales & Marketing, System LSI Business, Samsung Electronics. “Samsung will continue to offer derivative processes of its advanced 14nm FinFET technology to maintain our technology leadership.”

    Incorporating three-dimensional (3D) FinFET structure on transistors enables significant performance boost and low power consumption. Samsung’s new 14nm LPP process delivers up to 15 percent higher speed and 15 percent less power consumption over the previous 14nm LPE process through improvements in transistor structure and process optimization. In addition, use of fully-depleted FinFET transistors brings enhanced manufacturing capabilities to overcome scaling limitations.

    With its superb characteristics, 14nm FinFET process is considered to be one of the most optimized solutions for mobile and IoT applications and is expected to meet growing market demand for a wide range of high performance and power efficient applications from network to automotive."


    Samsung Apple A9 is first generation FinFET
    TSMC Apple A9 (and A9X) is second generation FinFET
    Snapdragon 820 will be second generation FinFET
  2. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    I have two iPhone 6s with first gen Samsung chips, but I'm not sure if it's worth the gamble try to exchange them to second gen TSMC chips, since they have good screens?

    Knowing my luck I would end up with yellow screen TSMC... :confused:

    Maybe it's best to have two Samsungs so I can't really compare battery life, lol. :p
  3. sanke1, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    sanke1 macrumors 65816


    Nov 9, 2010
    Yellow TSMC should still be better than blue Samsung.

    Consider your yellow to be f.lux mode enabled by default. :p
  4. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

    Aug 5, 2001
    Good job picking out a single parameter of chip production, and base conclusions on that. You bought your phone based on official specs, and now you cry because it *may* be possible to obtain another that has 2% less battery usage using one of those single parameters, but without taking into consideration all other things required to build a chip?

    StupidGate really continues.
  5. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    According to TSMC, second gen FinFet provides up to 15 per cent performance improvement over the first gen FinFET at the same level of power consumption. At the same clock-rate, chips produced using second gen are expected to consume 30 per cent less power compared to the same chips made using first gen FinFET.

    Now Samsung is telling the same thing.
  6. HEK, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    HEK macrumors 68040


    Sep 24, 2013
    Can't find the part to back up all of your "so" statement.

    Where did it say which process Samsung used for the iPhone 6s/6s+ production.

    Where did it say which process TCMC is using for the iPhone 6s/6s+ production.
    No article on this from TCMC.

    I do see the Qualcomm 820 chip will be new process.

    So when Samsung stole the FinFET process from TCMC, they didn't steal/tool up the latest process till now? And the TCMC chip is 16nm and Samsung is 14nm?
  7. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    Today Samsung announced their second gen FinFET process and it will available first half of this year. TSMC has announced their second gen FinFET+ before A9 chips. It depends which year Samsung stole FinFET from TSMC but if it was more than couple years ago, it could have been still first gen...
  8. HEK macrumors 68040


    Sep 24, 2013
    Still don't see anything other than your conjecture as to which process was used by each company on the A9 chip. And what differences will result from using 16nm and 14nm A9 chips.

    Also did add link to court ruling on my previous post.
  9. ABC5S Suspended


    Sep 10, 2013
    Hey OP, put a stop to this already. Who cares anymore other than OCD people
  10. bruinsrme macrumors 603


    Oct 26, 2008
    Imagine if there wasn't 2 chips in play. What would so many complain about?
    1. Antenna bands on some phones are slightly off color and barely noticable when the case is removed
    2. week 51 phones boot up .002 seconds faster than phones produced before that.
    3. The volume buttons are different colors when subjected to a spectrophotometer, but not noticable with the a case installed or by the human eye.
    4. Finger sprint reader doesn't work with gloves on
    5. my screen is warmer, cooler, bluish, yellowish....
    6. my phone has a gray dot that I seem when the screen is all white and 2 inches from my face.
  11. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    I agree it's hard to say for sure since Apple doesn't announce these kind of technical details but for example here is TSMC announcing second gen FinFET+ in 2014

    in same the same year 2014 second gen FinFET+ was already in risk production.


    Samsung announcing second gen FinFET today in 2016.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2016 ---
    There's always rose gold threads for non-techies... Let us geeks have discussion too.
  12. HEK, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    HEK macrumors 68040


    Sep 24, 2013
    So after reading all this, it remains unclear if the TCMC A9 chip is FinFET or FinFET+ but we do know it is 16nm. Likewise it remains unclear if the Samsung A9 chip is FinFET or FinFET+ But know it is 14nm. This is because Apple and chip manufacturers are not disclosing the exact process.

    Second unknown is what effect tossing in the 16 vs 14nm size does on top of the FinFET type.

    What is know, is that there are many other components in the phone, that consume power and have variability in their manufacturing. Such that when phones are looked at as a total device, the chip contribution falls to within the tolerance specifications set forth by Apple. And this whole issue continues to be how many camels can be squeezed through the eye of a needle. Another words, stupidgate.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2016 ---
    Don't forget that if one of two identical iPhones is taken to a higher altitude it will run faster then the iPhone left at lower altitude. Nothing Apple can do about this as Einstein's general theory of relativity shows time slows as you get closer to earth's center of mass. Just the way the universe works.
  13. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    It would be quite astonishing if these "small players" would get FF+ before Apple in 2014.

    Also it would be incredible if Samsung had production of low-power-plus technology but didn't announce it before today.
  14. noobinator macrumors 603


    Jun 19, 2009
    Pasadena, CA
    This has been going on longer than just the iPhone and 6s/6s Plus but we just found out about it now I'm guessing. Let's all have outrage over the other phones too.
  15. Vicrooloo, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    Vicrooloo macrumors regular

    Dec 8, 2015
    Neato. Makes me excited for the iPhone 7S and Galaxy S8

    Instead of bettering the battery, the're just going to make better use of it.
  16. Matthew.H macrumors 6502


    Sep 16, 2015
    Norwich, UK
    My 6S has the TSMC A9. Even if it had the Samsung chip I frankly couldn't care less. Both chips work within Apple parameters. I can still remember the post on here when some exchanged 17 iphones because they wanted the TSMC chip and not the Samsung.o_O
  17. Vicrooloo macrumors regular

    Dec 8, 2015
    You have to be ****ing kidding right now. No way Apple actually gave someone 17 replacement devices...
  18. MaciMac100 thread starter macrumors 6502

    Oct 26, 2014
    It's possible, but I guess with 10nm they will boost performance more than effiency. When phones get even more thinner our hope is rumored Sony battery where they put 40% more mAh in same battery area...
  19. mrex macrumors 68030


    Jul 16, 2014
    people who are interested in tech? like me... i dont care if i had samsung chip or not, but im interested in the tech behind it.

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