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A8x CPU performance is almost double that of the A8

edit: sorry i meant to say in the past ipad chips maintained largely the same CPU performance as the iphone counterpart.

Not even close.
The A7 to A8 CPU (single threaded) performance jump is about 25% split about equally three ways between
- Compiler improvements (so not REALLY a CPU improvement, because the A7 gets the same 8% speed boost when things are recompiled)
- 100MHz speed increase
- very slightly improved/tweaked design. (The most obvious parts of this are
= second integer multiplication unit
= FPU add/multiply decrease latency by one cycle
= L3 cache substantially decreases latency).

A8X runs 100MHz faster than the A8, so it gets an additional 8% or so from that. An honest accounting (ignoring compiler speedups) would be that single threaded A8X is about 25% faster than A7.

Of course A8X has that third core which is very nice for maintaining a responsive UI in some especially demanding situations where many things are happening at once, but let's not go the Android route of pretending that more cores makes everything faster. Today that's just not the case for most apps in most situations. Every year an additional core becomes a little more useful --- the OS does a little more offloading from the main thread, apps work a little harder to parallelize themselves --- but we're by no means at the point where most software that needs it is making aggressive use of parallelism.

It's very tempting to enthuse about how super fast the A9 will be. I'm not sure that's the right mindset. Apple is not losing any sales from people saying "I really want an iPhone/iPad but they're just too darn slow", and that's not likely to change next year. The first crop of A57 devices will probably lag an A9 that's just a process tweaked A8. nVidia's Denver may be a worthy competitor; but only a competitor --- better along some dimensions, worse along others.

What we MAY see in the A9 is the ARM8.1 instruction set modifications, in particular the RMW atomics which should allow for faster reference count updates of objects shared between threads. (It's not clear if Apple was the one who wanted these ISA changes or one of the ARM server vendors, but if Apple implements them, it should help them to be somewhat more aggressive in multithreading Cocoa.)

What we MAY see in the A9 is the mythical Apple designed (perhaps based on an existing Imagination design) GPU. Alternatively Apple may feel that the current deal they have with Imagination (which appears to allow for taking existing Imagination designs and scaling them further that what Imagination sells to anyone else) is good enough.

What we MAY see in the A9 is the long-awaited HSA architecture which has CPU and GPU sharing a coherent address space, along with the OS allowed much more control of how individual GPU cores are scheduled.

All three of these are more subtle than just "it's 30% faster", but they are the natural next steps for Apple, if not now than over the next three years or so, and they will all contribute to Apple being once again a year or more ahead of the competition. As far as the user goes, they will all contribute to "snappiness" rather than higher benchmark numbers, which will make a few fanboys sad, but should make the customer base as a whole happier.

Which means I expect the FinFets and smaller geometry of the new process to be used much like the A7 to A8 transition --- some more transistors to support the functionality I'm described, a minor speed boost from tweaks and maybe an extra 100MHz, and another halving or so of energy used. I expect Apple to stick with the basics of the existing (quite satisfactory) design while they add the 8.1 instructions and HSA and only work on a more radical design (at which point they drop 32-bit instruction support and go for more aggressive performance) once 8.1 and HSA are implemented and fully understood.

We'll see how right I am in a few months...
 
What we MAY see in the A9 is the long-awaited HSA architecture which has CPU and GPU sharing a coherent address space, along with the OS allowed much more control of how individual GPU cores are scheduled.

We know that the A7 SRAM block was writable by the GPU too, so it seems they're headed that way.
 
Yes! Next year's WWDC2015 will be the 10th anniversary of the announcement to switch to using Intel processors. Tim Cook will bring it up so he can talk about how OS X will be (has been) running on ARM (A7 and newer) processors. He will then debut the return of the MacBook powered by an A9 processor running OS X. He will go on the say iOS will also be installed on the MacBook similar to Rosetta so iOS apps will be able to run on the MacBook. His "just one more thing" will be to announce that iOS 9 is also running on Intel processors, and any Mac that can support and is running OS X 10.11 will be able to install and run iOS 9.

With Microsoft putting so much effort into creating iOS apps, people will be able to run those on their Mac without needing to install Windows. All the games written for iOS will be playable on a Mac. The Apple TV currently uses the A5 processor so in one fell swoop, Apple can update it with the A9 processor and turn it into a gaming console with 4K video support.

Dare to dream!
I actually agree about the AppleTV. I've assumed that the A9 will become the new baseline chip because of h.265 support; and I'm guessing it hasn't happened yet because manufacturing is constrained.

As for OSX running on ARM, while I think it IS feasible in the nearish term future, I don't think it will be on an A-series chip. Those are too far tweaked for low power; it would make more sense to create a different design with optimizations better targeting the energy/performance tradeoff appropriate to laptops+desktops.
There's also some fundamental low-level changes that are coming to the ARM world (see my previous comment) and I think it would make sense for Apple to sort those out and nail them down before making the switch.

There's ALSO the aWatch coming out soon, with its whole new SoC (this time super-optimized for energy rather than performance) and Apple maintaining three design teams at the top of their game seems a bit much --- maybe let the watch come out, have it be iterated on for the next few years, and have the top designers from that team start to work on a kickass laptop chip.
 
... the RMW atomics which should allow for faster reference count updates of objects shared between threads. ...

Wow. ARC garbage collection at the hardware level.
I had no idea that the hardware could do that.
(I'm obviously a software-only person.)

----------

Yep, their sales show how superior they are.

Samsung's sales show how superior their copying was.
 
I'm just wondering about the A9X. Will they increase the cores up to 4 from the current 3? Will they stay with 2 GB of RAM? Will it be used to run the new iPad Pro and the Air that comes out next year? What about the mini, are they done with that category or are they going to relaunch it with a bang with the A9X next year?
 
I'm just wondering about the A9X. Will they increase the cores up to 4 from the current 3?

Doubtful. We've been on 2 cores 3 years now. 3 will probably have its own little run too.


Will they stay with 2 GB of RAM?

Almost certainly. Typical cadence is bump every 2 years.

Will it be used to run the new iPad Pro and the Air that comes out next year? What about the mini, are they done with that category or are they going to relaunch it with a bang with the A9X next year?

I doubt they'd split into three different processors for the sake of a bigger iPad, but we'll see. I imagine the mini gets the A8 (less likely A9) next year.
 
Apple need Samsung and Samsung need Apple. Apple needs a manufacturer for components, and Samsung need "inspiration" :p

Such an awkward relationship ;)

Apple also apparently needed the idea for the iPhone 6+.

I wonder where that idea came from... Oh! That's right. Samsung. :cool:
 
Apple also apparently needed the idea for the iPhone 6+.

I wonder where that idea came from... Oh! That's right. Samsung. :cool:

what idea?

HTC was making large screen phones before samsung. the Note was more of an accident than anything else
 
…As for OSX running on ARM, while I think it IS feasible in the nearish term future, I don't think it will be on an A-series chip. Those are too far tweaked for low power; it would make more sense to create a different design with optimizations better targeting the energy/performance tradeoff appropriate to laptops+desktops.

There's also some fundamental low-level changes that are coming to the ARM world (see my previous comment) and I think it would make sense for Apple to sort those out and nail them down before making the switch.
I do not think a MacBook with an ARM processor would be focused on power like the current models of notebooks and desktops. I do think it will be focused on doing the same tasks that can be done with the iPad but addressing some "problems" with the iPad such as:
  1. Physical Keyboard - more natural and doesn't use screen space.
  2. PCIe-based Flash Storage - the more you have the less you need the cloud.
  3. RAM - the more the better with 4GB standard, upgradable to 6GB.
I do not know about the low-level changes coming to the ARM world, but it does not make sense for Apple to get those changes nailed down before releasing OS X on ARM. If anything, it make sense for Apple to release OS X on ARM in the next version so developers will start updating their applications.

Look at what Apple has done already. The iWork and iLife applications were updated with feature parity and require OS X Mavericks and iOS 7, at a minimum, which also happens to have been released at the same time as the A7, 64-bit ARM processor. Now, Apple has updated their OSes (Yosemite and iOS 8) with feature parity. So with the next update to OS X and iOS I am expecting both OSes to run on both processors.
 
Better be a friggin up-to-date iPad Mini scheduled for one.

This idea of crippling an ipad because the screen is an inch smaller is certainly not helping those slouching ipad sales.
 
Apple need Samsung and Samsung need Apple. Apple needs a manufacturer for components, and Samsung need "inspiration" :p

Such an awkward relationship ;)

The ONLY thing samsung ever copied is the VISUAL look of the icons on their very first touch screen phone. Big deal. It's an ICON, not a TRADEMARK. Icons and signs should be universally recognizable. If samsung made the phone app blue instead of green you wouldn't be saying they "copied" apple. Android was making the first smartphone before apple did, all apple did was release it first. Apple has copied samsung in every other regard. The iphone 6 and 6+ looks EXACTLY like a galaxy. The rounded corners, the same sized bezels, the curved edges. And did anyone else other than me notice that on the new iphone 6 and 6+ the sleep button is in the same exact location as SAMSUNG'S sleep button? Was that intentional to make it look even more like a galaxy?

Apple needs samsung but believe me, samsung does NOT need apple! Apple better put its money where its mouth is. I'm hoping samsung underclocks these processors.

Apple may have invented the first touch screen phone but it was all the other manufacturers who REinvented the wheel and made it better, faster, stronger, etc. Apple always releases features 2-3 years behind jailbreak tweaks and android features, they make it look pretty and slap on some gimmicky marketing word onto it like "Applepay."
 
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Korean company, manufactures in Austin, TX.

Hated by Americans.

American company, manufactures in China.

Loved by Americans.

:apple:
 
Yep, their sales show how superior they are.


Samsung's manufacturing capabilities is indeed very good, that I don't think many people can deny. That Apple hasn't been able to wean itself off Samsung yet is testament to this.

Give credit where it's due. :)
 
We always need construction workers.

/Not dissing construction workers, I'm just pointing out the relationship.

In this sense, Apple is just an assembler of components. That is, a big portion of Apple products internals which they call "innovation" actually was designed by third-parties. Examples: ARM, SSDs (Apple didn't invented them), von Neumann computer architecture, touch-sensitive screens, wi-fi modules and so on.

I agree that designing how to assemble something can be innovative, but the parts used in the process also deserve a innovative status.
 
Came here to write this. I've mentioned this several times on these forums. I think that Apple will use the iPad Pro as a testing stage of sorts for components that will be used in iOS devices later in the year. They can charge people more money for a faster Pro machine, and then sell the same or similar downclocked components with less CPU or graphics cores in the autumn product lineup. I've also mentioned a while back that the rumored 12" MacBook might also be the 12" iPad Pro with a keyboard dock as there have been rumors of an ARM-powered MacBook floating around for at least a year or two. But you never know since Apple tests so many things in their lab.

Even if we're talking about a WWDC launch—December seems pretty early to start ramping up production for a chip that would only go into an iPad Pro or MacBook Air. Presumably an iPad Pro has an even more limited potential market than an iPad Air, and the MacBook Airs aren't huge sellers either when compared to iOS devices. This makes me think that either Apple is going to put the iPad Pro / MacBook Pro retina on sale earlier this Spring that originally thought (perhaps announced at the Apple Watch event around February), and/or they've lost their damn minds and are going back to a summer release schedule for the iPhone along with the iPads. As someone who is wanting to move down to a 4.7" iPhone from the 5.5" Plus model and has been frustrated with some of the crashing problems when compared to my immaculate iPad Air 2, I fully support Apple releasing an upgraded 4.7" 6S with 2GB of RAM and that rumored fancy new camera module this summer. Hopefully they also bump up the base model to 32GB so that people can upgrade future versions of iOS without running out of space lol.

There is no way any new iPhones are coming out pre-fall 2015. I've had no problems with my 6 Plus. In fact it's the best phone I've ever owned.

The iPad Pro only has a limited market if Apple announce it as just a larger iPad. The fact is even if that is all it basically is, they aren't going to stand up on stage and simply say 'here's your larger iPad, enjoy.'

No, they are going to show software demos like with the iPad Air 2 and unique features like with the 6 Plus. This is Apple. They like to brag about what their hardware and software can do in unity.

There's a good chance of some Apple branded accessories as well, but even if they don't come third party manufacturers will fill the void pretty quickly. I personally think we will see the introduction of an Apple branded stylus that can be used across the entire iPad range. A keyboard smart cover has also been patented.

All this could indeed point to Apple merging the Macbook Airs replacement with the high-end iPad market. This is the only way the replacement for the Macbook Air will get an A-series processor though, if a standalone Retina Macbook Air is released it will be a separate Intel based product.

Doubtful. We've been on 2 cores 3 years now. 3 will probably have its own little run too.

Almost certainly. Typical cadence is bump every 2 years.

I doubt they'd split into three different processors for the sake of a bigger iPad, but we'll see. I imagine the mini gets the A8 (less likely A9) next year.

The iPad Pro by definition would have to be a more powerful product. Don't count out a quad-core version of the A9 and 4GB RAM just yet.

Although I to foresee the Mini only getting a version of the A8 next year, if only so Apple can keep their profit margins high enough.

I do not think a MacBook with an ARM processor would be focused on power like the current models of notebooks and desktops. I do think it will be focused on doing the same tasks that can be done with the iPad but addressing some "problems" with the iPad such as:
  1. Physical Keyboard - more natural and doesn't use screen space.
  2. PCIe-based Flash Storage - the more you have the less you need the cloud.
  3. RAM - the more the better with 4GB standard, upgradable to 6GB.
I do not know about the low-level changes coming to the ARM world, but it does not make sense for Apple to get those changes nailed down before releasing OS X on ARM. If anything, it make sense for Apple to release OS X on ARM in the next version so developers will start updating their applications.

Look at what Apple has done already. The iWork and iLife applications were updated with feature parity and require OS X Mavericks and iOS 7, at a minimum, which also happens to have been released at the same time as the A7, 64-bit ARM processor. Now, Apple has updated their OSes (Yosemite and iOS 8) with feature parity. So with the next update to OS X and iOS I am expecting both OSes to run on both processors.

Those are not problems with the iPad. They are the components that make a Macbook a better purchase for your needs.

OSX is not migrating to ARM. iOS may gain some new features that bring the two OSs closer together in terms of features, but that's all. I will be shocked if we see an OSX capable A9 powered touchscreen enabled MacBook or iPad.

The ONLY thing samsung ever copied is the VISUAL look of the icons on their very first touch screen phone. Big deal. It's an ICON, not a TRADEMARK. Icons and signs should be universally recognizable. If samsung made the phone app blue instead of green you wouldn't be saying they "copied" apple. Android was making the first smartphone before apple did, all apple did was release it first. Apple has copied samsung in every other regard. The iphone 6 and 6+ looks EXACTLY like a galaxy. The rounded corners, the same sized bezels, the curved edges. And did anyone else other than me notice that on the new iphone 6 and 6+ the sleep button is in the same exact location as SAMSUNG'S sleep button? Was that intentional to make it look even more like a galaxy?

Apple needs samsung but believe me, samsung does NOT need apple! Apple better put its money where its mouth is. I'm hoping samsung underclocks these processors.

Apple may have invented the first touch screen phone but it was all the other manufacturers who REinvented the wheel and made it better, faster, stronger, etc. Apple always releases features 2-3 years behind jailbreak tweaks and android features, they make it look pretty and slap on some gimmicky marketing word onto it like "Applepay."

Absolute rubbish.

I wonder if they are still hoping Samsung goes out of business? :eek:

Apple doesn't want nor need Samsung to go out of business. They are partners on the manufacturing side of Apple's products. Apple does want higher sales than Samsung's in the mobile market, because everyone wants to sell more than their competition.

Competition is good though, because it raises the value of having a certain brands products. If there were no other phones in the world other than an iPhone, would you want to own one as much?
 
no no not at all
it's one thing to say that the ipad air cpu is 2x more powerful...heck it can be 5x
but if your utility of the device doesnt get increased, its still a waste of money. do you need the extra power? i find for most people, the answer is no. especially for people with only a 1 year old ipad.

for example, my ipad 4 is less than 50% less powerful than my iphone.
i have no intention of replacing it soon because it does everything i need on it well.

Im not sure if the extra power would be useful. However i do surf the web a lot and with the extra ram i wonder if my experience would be a lot better on the Air 2. I like the mini portability. But sometimes also the screen is smaller than I'd like to be for certain things. I fairly often use it to review documents and I'm stuck with either smaller type or scrolling often. So I'd get some extra utility just from the larger screen. The Ram and the screen would help. But the mini is pocketable either in a coat or in the back pocket of my jeans.

If websites loaded quicker and also if tabs could be more easily flipped between, that might be nice. And the touch ID access is a nice thing as well.
 
The A-series of chips don't get enough recognition IMO. They are incredible to say the least.
Let's remind ourselves that iPads only exist since January 2010. And almost five years later we have the A9X powering the 6.1 mm iPad Air 2. The people who complain about "it's only thinner and faster" do not appreciate what a difference it makes after a few years of progress in these two dimensions. It doesn't make for an entertaining keynote to hear the new iPad is thinner (again) and faster (again) and otherwise virtually unchanged. But it improves the experience so much.

Korean company, manufactures in Austin, TX.
Hated by Americans.

American company, manufactures in China.
Loved by Americans.

Korean company, manufactures in Austin, TX.
Hated by Germans.

American company, manufactures in China.
Loved by Germans.

 Now try to explain that. Hint: It's not about who or where.
 
Of course Apple needs Samsung. Apple knows where Superiority is located :)

Actually :apple: wanted to save samsung the cost of reverse engineering the chip. Perhaps samsung can use the money to finally design a product themselves. Small hope though.:D
 
Im not sure if the extra power would be useful. However i do surf the web a lot and with the extra ram i wonder if my experience would be a lot better on the Air 2. I like the mini portability. But sometimes also the screen is smaller than I'd like to be for certain things. I fairly often use it to review documents and I'm stuck with either smaller type or scrolling often. So I'd get some extra utility just from the larger screen. The Ram and the screen would help. But the mini is pocketable either in a coat or in the back pocket of my jeans.

If websites loaded quicker and also if tabs could be more easily flipped between, that might be nice. And the touch ID access is a nice thing as well.

I would like to see more powerful apps come out that tax the hardware more and make the iPad become a more viable PC replacement.

The A7 processor was 4 times as fast as the A5. To put things in perspective, an imovie clip which used to take 1 hour to export now takes me just 15 minutes.

There's definitely room for the iOS devices to become even more powerful than they currently are.
 
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