Samsung's Exclusive Contract for iOS Device Chips Expiring in June as A7 for iPhone 6 Heads to TSMC?

[Archon]

What ate you going on about?

Samsung has been making SoC for far longer than Apple, and they haven't exactly been copying. Samsung has been leading in the CPU portion of the SoC for a while. And it isn't even like Apple has anything like the octa-core.

I eat ARM chips for breakfast!

ARM is a standard and how well each company optimizes the standard is not about how long they have been making SoCs, it's who makes them best for the final product. Octa means nothing if the who system lags on simple UI transitions.

 

[UBS28]

That is good news.

Are you sure this is good news? All the non-samsung Retina Macbook Pro have problems.

I'd rather let Samsung be the manufacturer because then you know you get quality. There are market leader (including phones) in a lot of industries for a reason.

----------

let this be a lesson to you Samsung. Don't bite the hand that feeds you

You sure about that? Samsung is not even interested in selling displays to Apple anymore because Apple is very cheap, hence they don't care if Sharp will now provide for displays. So probably Apple isn't paying much at Samsung for the chips also.

 

[maxosx]

Are you sure this is good news? All the non-samsung Retina Macbook Pro have problems.

I'd rather let Samsung be the manufacturer because then you know you get quality. There are market leader (including phones) in a lot of industries for a reason.

The Apple + Samsung partnership in the pre-pissed off Steve Era, was one of the best deals he's ever negotiated.

A high quality iPhone being built with high quality components. The smooth working relationship was a win-win scenario.

With no one clearly superior to replace Samsung, Apple bit off their nose just so their angry CEO could make a public scene.

Sometimes I wonder why the board sat back & allowed a runaway narcissist get away with these harmful antics.

I feel for Tim Cook, what a mess he inherited.

 

[Infinitewisdom]

I feel for Tim Cook, what a mess he inherited.

Oh yeah, one of the most beloved brands in the world with an unimaginable stockpile of cash. Tim Cook sure took over a pile of dung.

 

[maxosx]

Oh yeah, one of the most beloved brands in the world with an unimaginable stockpile of cash. Tim Cook sure took over a pile of dung.

It's business. Only those who have no understanding of the true nature of what Cook goes through on a day to day basis would make a flippant comment as stated above.

You seem interested & emotionally protective of Apple. If that's true, doing some research of what's involved in running a massive enterprise would raise your level of awareness. In turn you just might understand the point I conveyed.

 

[samcraig]

It's business. Only those who have no understanding of the true nature of what Cook goes through on a day to day basis would make a flippant comment as stated above.

You seem interested & emotionally protective of Apple. If that's true, doing some research of what's involved in running a massive enterprise would raise your level of awareness. In turn you just might understand the point I conveyed.

I have found that several people here thinks money is all that matters in the world. Since Apple has so much, they can can a) operate above the law if they want; b) buy ANY company that stands in their way; c) have no worries about competition; d) can spend whatever they want; e) don't need stockholders

And I am sure other things.

 

[Michael Goff]

I eat ARM chips for breakfast!

ARM is a standard and how well each company optimizes the standard is not about how long they have been making SoCs, it's who makes them best for the final product. Octa means nothing if the who system lags on simple UI transitions.

Errr... that doesn't refute the fact that Samsung hasn't been copying Apple's ARM chip ideas.

That's what I was refuting, I wasn't saying that their phones are the bestest things ever.

:|

 

[xofruitcake]

The Apple + Samsung partnership in the pre-pissed off Steve Era, was one of the best deals he's ever negotiated.

A high quality iPhone being built with high quality components. The smooth working relationship was a win-win scenario.

With no one clearly superior to replace Samsung, Apple bit off their nose just so their angry CEO could make a public scene.

Sometimes I wonder why the board sat back & allowed a runaway narcissist get away with these harmful antics.

I feel for Tim Cook, what a mess he inherited.

heh heh, when the supplier become too powerful, they will dictate your schedule, cost, and at the end the final product. Looks at it this way, once Samsung achieve virtual monopoly,they can name the price of all the components that they sell. Why should Apple let it happen? For a system house like Apple, they need/want a very diverse supplier chains. They want a lot of competition between different suppliers to get the best pricing and best technology.

 

[maxosx]

heh heh, when the supplier become too powerful, they will dictate your schedule, cost, and at the end the final product. Looks at it this way, once Samsung achieve virtual monopoly,they can name the price of all the components that they sell. Why should Apple let it happen? For a system house like Apple, they need/want a very diverse supplier chains. They want a lot of competition between different suppliers to get the best pricing and best technology.

Respectfully you know nothing about how Apple operates.

An extremely dominate dictatorial company Apple calls the shots ... Always.

 

[samcraig]

Respectfully you know nothing about how Apple operates.

An extremely dominate dictatorial company Apple calls the shots ... Always.

Paraphrasing

We call the shots, son. We call the shots or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?

 

[maxosx]

Paraphrasing

We call the shots, son. We call the shots or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?

No... I'm not your son.

I was sharing a general observation from years of watching & reading about how Apple has a practice of playing hardball with suppliers.

It's as simple as that.

 

[samcraig]

No... I'm not your son.

I was sharing a general observation from years of watching & reading about how Apple has a practice of playing hardball with suppliers.

It's as simple as that.

Maybe you missed the pop culture reference. I was riffing on your post based on a quote from A Few Good Men...

 

[maxosx]

Maybe you missed the pop culture reference. I was riffing on your post based on a quote from A Few Good Men...

You're right I did...ha ....ha....ha....

 

[Archon]

Errr... that doesn't refute the fact that Samsung hasn't been copying Apple's ARM chip ideas.

That's what I was refuting, I wasn't saying that their phones are the bestest things ever.

:|

In the chip fabrication biz, Apple does not walk up to Samsung one day with blueprints and say build us 5 million of these by next week. There is a LOT of planning and information exchange well in advance.

It is not the copying but if Apple does something innovative within the ARM standard, Samsung will be aware of this far in advance.

They could take an Apple idea and further that concept in their iteration of ARM far faster than if they took an off the shelf production iPhone 6 and dissect it.

I can assure you that Samsung doesn't share their Octo-chip plans with Apple.

The threat is painfully obvious...

 

[Michael Goff]

In the chip fabrication biz, Apple does not walk up to Samsung one day with blueprints and say build us 5 million of these by next week. There is a LOT of planning and information exchange well in advance.

It is not the copying but if Apple does something innovative within the ARM standard, Samsung will be aware of this far in advance.

They could take an Apple idea and further that concept in their iteration of ARM far faster than if they took an off the shelf production iPhone 6 and dissect it.

I can assure you that Samsung doesn't share their Octo-chip plans with Apple.

The threat is painfully obvious...

Their concepts for how to use the ARM chips are different, though.

And my main point was that Samsung has been innovating chips their own way, even if they copy some other things.

 

[xofruitcake]

Respectfully you know nothing about how Apple operates.

An extremely dominate dictatorial company Apple calls the shots ... Always.

And is there anything wrong if a company want to call their shot instead of letting supplier call the shot? Looks at HTC, rumor was that HTC has to move back their launch day for HTC One because vendor doesn't view HTC as tier one customer any more and HTC cannot get enough part. Why would Apple keep feeding Samsung business until one day they are so big that they will dominate every system house including Apple? There is always tension between suppliers and system house between who call the shot in term of technology trend, schedule, and price. If you don't understand this basic and trying to take side with this argument, you really don't have any idea of how business operate..

 

[NutsNGum]

Sometimes I wonder why the board sat back & allowed a runaway narcissist get away with these harmful antics.

Harmful antics? The guy resurrected the company from the dead. And if it wasn't for his narcissism, Apple wouldn't have been founded in the first place.

 

[maxosx]

And is there anything wrong if a company want to call their shot instead of letting supplier call the shot? Looks at HTC, rumor was that HTC has to move back their launch day for HTC One because vendor doesn't view HTC as tier one customer any more and HTC cannot get enough part. Why would Apple keep feeding Samsung business until one day they are so big that they will dominate every system house including Apple? There is always tension between suppliers and system house between who call the shot in term of technology trend, schedule, and price. If you don't understand this basic and trying to take side with this argument, you really don't have any idea of how business operate..

You've failed to read my post carefully, taken it out of context all because you want to argue.

Harmful antics? The guy resurrected the company from the dead. And if it wasn't for his narcissism, Apple wouldn't have been founded in the first place.

You're memory of how Apple was turned around follows along with the Steve Jobs disciples. All giving credit to just one man who was the master of taking all the credit. He was the leader, had learned a lot since being forced out of Apple, and had the advantage of a more mature talented group of people. They all wanted to succeed, and together they did.

As far as how Apple was created, few of the worshipers will acknowledge their were three men, not just Steve Jobs. But again it makes for good fiction.

Steve Wozniaks engineering expertise is what created the first computer the trio of young men turned into the company known as Apple Computer Inc. Woz's greatest fault was being a well balanced self confident man who allowed Jobs to take all the credit. Once he was tired of the internal politics he left to enjoy life, and be involved with projects he could not while working at Apple.

 

[samcraig]

Y

Steve Wozniaks engineering expertise is what created the first computer the trio of young men turned into the company known as Apple Computer Inc. Woz's greatest fault was being a well balanced self confident man who allowed Jobs to take all the credit. Once he was tired of the internal politics he left to enjoy life, and be involved with projects he could not while working at Apple.

I have a lot of respect for Woz. And there's no way Apple could have succeeded without him NOR if he was of the same character as Steve Jobs. Can you imagine how many times Woz would have gone "thermonuclear" on Job/Apple if he was...?

 

[gto55]

Could the upcoming A7 beat the SnapDragon S800 which has impressive specs and will Apple finally integrate the PowerVR Serie 6 in ?
http://www.geek.com/mobile/qualcomm-unveils-2-3ghz-snapdragon-s800-mobile-chip-1535125/

The S800 promises to offer some serious performance gains over anything that has come before. A move to a 28nm manufacturing process means Qualcomm can offer the new Krait 400 quad core CPU running at speeds of up to 2.3GHz per core while keeping power use equivalent, if not lower than previous generations.
As well as a super fast CPU, Qualcomm is using the Adreno 330 GPU, which the company claims offers double the performance of the Adreno 320. That CPU/GPU combination coupled with support for 800MHz DDR3 memory (12.8GB/s bandwidth), form the S800, which is expected to increase overall performance by up to 75 percent over what the S4 Pro can achieve.
By comparison, the S600 gets a new quad-core Krait 300 CPU with speeds limited to 1.9GHz. It has also been combined with the older Adreno 320 GPU, but still offers a major performance gain to mid-range smartphones and tablets. Qualcomm rates it as a 40 percent performance gain over the S4 Pro.
Such a large increase in performance has allowed Qualcomm to introduce new features, not least of which is the ability to handle UltraHD (4K) quality video. That’s four times the resolution of 1080p. And not only can you output 4K to a compatible display, you’ll also be able to capture video at such resolutions when coupled with the right hardware.


The S800 and S600 should certainly usher in a new wave of performance tablets and phones, especially as the SoC supports display resolutions of up to 2560 x 2048, as well as multichannel audio with DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Plus support. Communication isn’t lacking either, with a third-generation 4G LTE modem included offering speeds of up to 150Mbps, 4G LTE Advanced Carrier Aggregation, 802.11ac, and integrated USB 3.0, Bluetooth, and FM support.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Could the upcoming A7 beat the SnapDragon S800 which has impressive specs

No, their target TDPs and battery sizes are different. S800 will have more peak performance.

and will Apple finally integrate the PowerVR Serie 6 in ?[/B]

Extremely likely.

The S800 promises to offer some serious performance gains over anything that has come before. A move to a 28nm manufacturing process means Qualcomm can offer the new Krait 400 quad core CPU running at speeds of up to 2.3GHz per core while keeping power use equivalent, if not lower than previous generations.

First gen Krait was already 28nm.

As well as a super fast CPU, Qualcomm is using the Adreno 330 GPU, which the company claims offers double the performance of the Adreno 320. That CPU/GPU combination coupled with support for 800MHz DDR3 memory (12.8GB/s bandwidth),

That's LPDDR3, which is definitely not the same as DDR3. First gen Krait supported that too. I'm guessing Apple will start using it soon, if not the A7. They're reaching the limit of LPDDR2 with 1066 MHz.

The S800 and S600 should certainly usher in a new wave of performance tablets and phones, especially as the SoC supports display resolutions of up to 2560 x 2048, as well as multichannel audio with DTS-HD and Dolby Digital Plus support. Communication isn’t lacking either, with a third-generation 4G LTE modem included offering speeds of up to 150Mbps, 4G LTE Advanced Carrier Aggregation, 802.11ac, and integrated USB 3.0, Bluetooth, and FM support.

A7 will likely have this same radio but with ac not enabled. (pure guess on my part)

Also, this article is months old. Devices using the S600 are already out (HTC One and US GS4).

 

[StoneJack]

I think some important points are missed:

1. So far Apple has paid billions of dollars to Samsung to help them build and expand their production facilities; basically the fantastic rise of Samsung happened because they were supported by billions dollar orders from Apple, a leading smartphone and tablet company. Using Apple money and adding their own orders, Samsung was able to leverage tremendous economies of scale thanks to Apple. It made their own smartphones very cost competitive (notice how every Samsung flagship model specifically undercuts in price a corresponding leading Apple model). Ending the contract will let Samsung go on its own. With already built large scale production base, Samsung will be fine, but it will no longer enjoy guaranteed, multiyear, billion dollars orders from Apple. Anyone with a business experience would say that such orders were like gift from heaven. Well, no more gifts.

2. Ending Samsung as a chip supplier doesn't mean that Apple will not buy any parts from Samsung. If they are competitive enough, why not. But chips, the heart and brain of modern mobile devices, will be not in hands of Samsung, a company known for its industrial espionage record http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/10/samsung-display-hq-searched-by-police-in-probe-over-stolen-lg-ol/. Keeping competitors uneducated about brains of their leading electronics is absolutely essential for Apple to stay in competition and ensures unique design of Apple chips benefitting its customers.

3. Without Apple as a its a free R&D center which even pays money, Samsung will have to invest море in its own chip development rather than spend billions of dollars on marketing. Only now competition is becoming fairer.

 

[essexman]

please explain why? just because Samsung isnt making it? you know whats really funny is its prob the only part of the iphone that's made in the US and it will prob be made offshore now.

That's the perception which Apple would like its customers to have. Many Americans believe buying more apple products means more jobs in America but Apple makes its phones in China and Samsung makes it's chips in texas. Tim Cook even try to take credit for Samsung masking its chips in Texas saying apple suppliers provide jobs in the USA conveneantly omitting the fact its Samsung who make Apple's chips in Texas.

 

[rjohnstone]

I think some important points are missed:

1. So far Apple has paid billions of dollars to Samsung to help them build and expand their production facilities; basically the fantastic rise of Samsung happened because they were supported by billions dollar orders from Apple, a leading smartphone and tablet company. Using Apple money and adding their own orders, Samsung was able to leverage tremendous economies of scale thanks to Apple. It made their own smartphones very cost competitive (notice how every Samsung flagship model specifically undercuts in price a corresponding leading Apple model). Ending the contract will let Samsung go on its own. With already built large scale production base, Samsung will be fine, but it will no longer enjoy guaranteed, multiyear, billion dollars orders from Apple. Anyone with a business experience would say that such orders were like gift from heaven. Well, no more gifts.

2. Ending Samsung as a chip supplier doesn't mean that Apple will not buy any parts from Samsung. If they are competitive enough, why not. But chips, the heart and brain of modern mobile devices, will be not in hands of Samsung, a company known for its industrial espionage record http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/10/samsung-display-hq-searched-by-police-in-probe-over-stolen-lg-ol/. Keeping competitors uneducated about brains of their leading electronics is absolutely essential for Apple to stay in competition and ensures unique design of Apple chips benefitting its customers.

3. Without Apple as a its a free R&D center which even pays money, Samsung will have to invest море in its own chip development rather than spend billions of dollars on marketing. Only now competition is becoming fairer.

So much nonsense in this post... where to begin?

1. Apple has always been less than 10% of Samsung's revenue.
Were they a big customer... yep. But not as big as some would like to believe.
Samsung has been in the semiconductor business for a long time.
Apple didn't provide them with any "gifts". The original iPhone chips were both designed and manufactured by Samsung, not Apple. Apple had to buy a chip design company to develop the A series SOC, but they still needed Samsung to produce it in high volumes. No other chip maker producers higher yields than Samsung beside Intel.
As for the fabs, that is the cost of doing business. Apple needed a dedicated production line, so they had to pay for it. Those fabs are of no use to Samsung once Apple's contract is over. They will have to be retooled for new production. That alone will cost billions.

2. LG and Samsung have been pointing fingers at each other for years.
Old news. LG is still trying to stay relevant. Too bad their newer mobile displays still turn yellow. I loved their older LCDs.
Also, Samsung has never used any SOC that was purpose built for Apple.
They're not any more "amazing" and "magical" than pretty much any modern ARM SOC. Apple finally got LTE!

3. Your lack of industry knowledge here is beyond obvious.
Samsung doesn't need or use Apple's R&D for their own chips.
The Exynos chip is proof of that.
Samsung sticks Qualcomm chips in their phones where the Exynos' radio is not compatible with the market the phone is being shipped too.
No Apple designs are ever used in Samsung's chips.

 

[Oletros]

So much nonsense in this post... where to begin?

Don't waste your time with him, it is worthless