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San Francisco Mayor to Take Another Look at Apple's Proposed Union Square Store Following Criticism
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Yes, what passes for wit among the unwashed always surprises.
One thing this forum will never be short on is blind loyalists that are quick to dismiss any arguments or rational criticism of a decision made by or in support of Apple, usually by making a straw man out of the argument or by pretending the values motivating it are old or illogical.
"Who cares if the wall is boring and the fountain is gone, it's Union Square and it's a boring area". If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't care if Apple is forced to redesign it. They make a lot of money every year, I'm sure they can spend a little more time coming up with a new design. The idea that what goes on at Union Square doesn't matter, is a self-defeating argument because it LITERALLY means that you as a person, who don't care what Union Square looks like, shouldn't even take part in the discussion. You yourself have dismissed your own view.
"The fountain looks [x], [y] and [z] and I don't think it matters anymore anyway." The fountain could look like a generic circular disk with a garden hose sticking out of it and it would look more unique than the Apple store. That store literally looks like a large, two-story version of any regular Apple store.
Here's how I feel about it: If you don't live in San Francisco, you shouldn't be concerned with whether or not the ramifications are a valid argument against it. This is of course, unless you SUPPORT the arguments. The reason why? It's not YOUR fountain and you're not one of the people directly involved in its removal.
Society in general is tending toward dismissing classical forms of art and art history. It's really sad.
And for what? A generic glass front two-story cube? Did they borrow their design idea from Forever 21? We need to be moving forward with our flagship designs and inspiring young businesses and the future of architecture. Decisions like this are what makes things so boring when it comes to progress these days. No one is taking chances, no one is trying new ideas. People just fall into line, minimize their artistic risk and gun for the maximized profit.
"Who cares if the wall is boring and the fountain is gone, it's Union Square and it's a boring area". If that's how you feel, then you shouldn't care if Apple is forced to redesign it. They make a lot of money every year, I'm sure they can spend a little more time coming up with a new design. The idea that what goes on at Union Square doesn't matter, is a self-defeating argument because it LITERALLY means that you as a person, who don't care what Union Square looks like, shouldn't even take part in the discussion. You yourself have dismissed your own view.
"The fountain looks [x], [y] and [z] and I don't think it matters anymore anyway." The fountain could look like a generic circular disk with a garden hose sticking out of it and it would look more unique than the Apple store. That store literally looks like a large, two-story version of any regular Apple store.
Here's how I feel about it: If you don't live in San Francisco, you shouldn't be concerned with whether or not the ramifications are a valid argument against it. This is of course, unless you SUPPORT the arguments. The reason why? It's not YOUR fountain and you're not one of the people directly involved in its removal.
Society in general is tending toward dismissing classical forms of art and art history. It's really sad.
And for what? A generic glass front two-story cube? Did they borrow their design idea from Forever 21? We need to be moving forward with our flagship designs and inspiring young businesses and the future of architecture. Decisions like this are what makes things so boring when it comes to progress these days. No one is taking chances, no one is trying new ideas. People just fall into line, minimize their artistic risk and gun for the maximized profit.
Apple - kill the toaster oven
Very funny - yet tragically sad if people agree with your statement without realizing the sarcasm.
I do think, however, that we should all refer to this design as the "toaster oven Apple store", and hope that out of embarrassment Apple starts over with a different design that respects the immediate neighborhood. (I like the idea of building underground, and keeping the ground and first floors in the footprint of the existing building - preserving the public space with the fountain.)
And "bronze gilding" is an oxymoron, especially in reference to cast bronze.
Instead, melt down the bronze gilding and cast a large Apple logo for the empty wall.
Very funny - yet tragically sad if people agree with your statement without realizing the sarcasm.
I do think, however, that we should all refer to this design as the "toaster oven Apple store", and hope that out of embarrassment Apple starts over with a different design that respects the immediate neighborhood. (I like the idea of building underground, and keeping the ground and first floors in the footprint of the existing building - preserving the public space with the fountain.)
And "bronze gilding" is an oxymoron, especially in reference to cast bronze.
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An ugly Apple store won't harm Union Square
Attached is a photo that I took last Saturday of the Levi's building from the Emporio Rulli wine bar on the corner of Union Square closest to the Levi's building.
Even if Apple is allowed to destroy the fountain and plaza, and build the toaster oven on the site of the Levi's building - it won't matter from the square.
No matter what Apple does, it won't matter from the square.
Attached is a photo that I took last Saturday of the Levi's building from the Emporio Rulli wine bar on the corner of Union Square closest to the Levi's building.
Even if Apple is allowed to destroy the fountain and plaza, and build the toaster oven on the site of the Levi's building - it won't matter from the square.
No matter what Apple does, it won't matter from the square.
Attachments
I agree. However Apples incapable of being embarrassed. Having viewed themselves as superior to other humans on the planet, a precedence set by Jobs year after year it's their "normal" therefore they simply look down at those outside the walled garden & snicker.
As someone from San Francisco and happily familiar with the Bay Area, there are a few things I feel need to be addressed:
San Francisco is a heinously expensive place to live, and it's not because the city council arbitrarily prohibits affordable housing (quite the opposite, actually), but so many people want to live there! It's like startup central, and many tech companies are based out of San Francisco. Therefore, your street bum hippies are probably respectable business people that probably make more than you do.
The residents and government also have a lot of experience in dealing with things like this - they've been around for a while, if you haven't noticed, and have made plenty of mistakes in their time. I think a comprehensive public review process for significant structures NOW is an important deal, it'll keep mistakes from the past being repeated again.
This is a supposed Flagship store? It looks like they just plopped in a generic Apple Store Simcity style. It looks like the 2nd floor cantilevers over the first from the back wall, and if it does then that's VERY cool, but it's a 3 sided brick with a glass front...
Really though, San Francisco is a great city in California - a state that prides itself upon agricultural and technological industry, and a large creative industry. As a state, we have one of the largest economies in the world, and contribute more in federal tax revenue than many other states do, especially the ones that criticize us.
I hope Apple comes up with something cooler. I was going to say the Metreon was pretty cool, but yea.. that worked out really well for sony :\
I'm actually not against 70s architecture though, sometimes it can be pretty cool! The fountain is kinda weird, looks like a big tree trunk, but the detail is pretty cool.
San Francisco is a heinously expensive place to live, and it's not because the city council arbitrarily prohibits affordable housing (quite the opposite, actually), but so many people want to live there! It's like startup central, and many tech companies are based out of San Francisco. Therefore, your street bum hippies are probably respectable business people that probably make more than you do.
The residents and government also have a lot of experience in dealing with things like this - they've been around for a while, if you haven't noticed, and have made plenty of mistakes in their time. I think a comprehensive public review process for significant structures NOW is an important deal, it'll keep mistakes from the past being repeated again.
This is a supposed Flagship store? It looks like they just plopped in a generic Apple Store Simcity style. It looks like the 2nd floor cantilevers over the first from the back wall, and if it does then that's VERY cool, but it's a 3 sided brick with a glass front...
Really though, San Francisco is a great city in California - a state that prides itself upon agricultural and technological industry, and a large creative industry. As a state, we have one of the largest economies in the world, and contribute more in federal tax revenue than many other states do, especially the ones that criticize us.
I hope Apple comes up with something cooler. I was going to say the Metreon was pretty cool, but yea.. that worked out really well for sony :\
I'm actually not against 70s architecture though, sometimes it can be pretty cool! The fountain is kinda weird, looks like a big tree trunk, but the detail is pretty cool.
As someone from SAN FRANCISCO, I feel it important that you are not a San Franciscan, or your location would say San Francisco. My guess is you're from the far far far east bay.
What San Franciscans Say
Today's (May 31) SF Chronicle has a dozen letters arguing to keep the Ruth Asawa fountain.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/letters-editor/
And it got covered in the local network news:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=9121366
I thought you all might want to know what the people who actually live in SF think about it.
Today's (May 31) SF Chronicle has a dozen letters arguing to keep the Ruth Asawa fountain.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/letters-editor/
And it got covered in the local network news:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=9121366
I thought you all might want to know what the people who actually live in SF think about it.
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All this about "that" fountain?
I am the first to say that this building design is, by no means, artistically important. However, anyone that has spent time looking at that fountain, has probably come away with a similar feeling. It is Kitchy, very 70's, highly detailed, but not inspiring in the least, or at least only as inspiring as a Bugs Bunny cartoon might be. This not a critique of the artist, who has many interesting pieces of art. But this piece in particular looks more like a junior high school art project then any thing produced by a famous artist.
I tend to agree that the building could use more windows and design on the sidewalk side,
I also think that if the architect had been told to incorporate the fountain into the design of the building they could have. But IMHO I can't imagine why.
I am the first to say that this building design is, by no means, artistically important. However, anyone that has spent time looking at that fountain, has probably come away with a similar feeling. It is Kitchy, very 70's, highly detailed, but not inspiring in the least, or at least only as inspiring as a Bugs Bunny cartoon might be. This not a critique of the artist, who has many interesting pieces of art. But this piece in particular looks more like a junior high school art project then any thing produced by a famous artist.
I tend to agree that the building could use more windows and design on the sidewalk side,
I also think that if the architect had been told to incorporate the fountain into the design of the building they could have. But IMHO I can't imagine why.
You can't say that about anyone because the letters to editor referenced in the post right above yours contradict about everything you just wrote.
Michael
Anyone who has spent time?
I'm mystified by statements like yours that begin "anyone that has spent time." It's plain that many who have spent time at the fountain don't feel as you do. All you have to do is read the outpouring of letter's to today's SF Chronicle to understand that.
It's like some of the posters here think that all aesthetic judgements should be the same. Or is it just that the sleek machine aesthetic of Apple products is so different from the folksy, hand-made, human-scale aesthetic of the fountain?
I'm mystified by statements like yours that begin "anyone that has spent time." It's plain that many who have spent time at the fountain don't feel as you do. All you have to do is read the outpouring of letter's to today's SF Chronicle to understand that.
It's like some of the posters here think that all aesthetic judgements should be the same. Or is it just that the sleek machine aesthetic of Apple products is so different from the folksy, hand-made, human-scale aesthetic of the fountain?
Where do you live?
Most San Franciscans don't consider Cupertino to be part of the "home town". If you asked random people on the street, most would probably say that Cupertino was part of Los Angeles. (It's really part of San Jose, though.)
At least those who've heard of Cupertino would say that. More likely that "what" or "where" would be the response. Anything south of 37° 42.411'N isn't SF.
I have personally stood at the base of this fountain, admiring it's character, nearly every time I have visited San Francisco. Being a few meters off Union Square, tourists from all over the globe have enjoyed it's rather humorous and clever design.
Short of being up close to it, no stock photograph can do it justice. The patina which has developed on the bronze alone is priceless in it's appearance. The detail and reflection of all who participated in creating it, is priceless.
To quote one of today's articles:
"Ruth one of the city's most important artists - for bronzes as well as her ethereal wire sculptures and work on paper - she has a legacy for public art and education, especially of children.
I hope that all the people - most of whom were children at the time, but also prominent citizens such as Cyril Magnin, who did the bread dough sculptures Ruth used to cast the foundation's figures - and their descendants can join to block this."
The thought of destroying, or even attempting to move this priceless example of Art, would be a tragedy.
So as to remind those who may or may not remember the definition of "art" I have copied and pasted it straight from the OS X default dictionary.
art 1 |ärt|
noun
1 the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power: the art of the Renaissance | great art is concerned with moral imperfections | she studied art in Paris.
works produced by such skill and imagination: his collection of modern art | an exhibition of Mexican art | [ as modifier ] : an art critic.
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture: she's good at art.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/letters-editor/
Short of being up close to it, no stock photograph can do it justice. The patina which has developed on the bronze alone is priceless in it's appearance. The detail and reflection of all who participated in creating it, is priceless.
To quote one of today's articles:
"Ruth one of the city's most important artists - for bronzes as well as her ethereal wire sculptures and work on paper - she has a legacy for public art and education, especially of children.
I hope that all the people - most of whom were children at the time, but also prominent citizens such as Cyril Magnin, who did the bread dough sculptures Ruth used to cast the foundation's figures - and their descendants can join to block this."
The thought of destroying, or even attempting to move this priceless example of Art, would be a tragedy.
So as to remind those who may or may not remember the definition of "art" I have copied and pasted it straight from the OS X default dictionary.
art 1 |ärt|
noun
1 the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power: the art of the Renaissance | great art is concerned with moral imperfections | she studied art in Paris.
works produced by such skill and imagination: his collection of modern art | an exhibition of Mexican art | [ as modifier ] : an art critic.
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture: she's good at art.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/letters-editor/
The fountain is obviously ugly and an eyesore and its comical that people are trying to pretend they find some kind of artistic "beauty" in it, but that being said, it has been a fixture for a while so I don't think it should be torn down to put an Apple store there.
The reason tech workers like paying for shockingly expensive apartments in San Francisco is because of it's eclectic culture - things like this sculpture, and the other parts of the city that give it its texture.
Destroying it eventually robs the city of its appeal - and indeed, you can read a not insignificant number of articles by San Franciscans wondering if their city is being homogenized. If it is, it won't be the companies that did the homogenizing left holding the bag - they'll leave.
I'm glad to see citizens movements like this at least getting some traction.
Destroying it eventually robs the city of its appeal - and indeed, you can read a not insignificant number of articles by San Franciscans wondering if their city is being homogenized. If it is, it won't be the companies that did the homogenizing left holding the bag - they'll leave.
I'm glad to see citizens movements like this at least getting some traction.
Thank you for giving a reasoned statement of why you think the fountain isn't worth keeping. You're the only one in this thread who has done so.
Ever hear of response bias? That's not indicative of the total opinion of SF, rather a vocal minority.
I live in SF and I think the fountain is hideous. Then again, I think Union Square in general is a pile of barf -- just a bunch of square 70's buildings packed with tourists.
Having not lived here all my life, I find the natives penchant to bitch is unmatched. It's truly something to see.
Anything and everything new receives high criticism in this city, regardless of how helpful it would be towards the city's growth and development. Unless, of course, it's painted sisters 2.0.