Sandy Bridge Air vs. Ivy Bridge Air - Worth waiting for?

[torbjoern]

I just hope the new MBA comes with Thunderbolt, a lighted keyboard, and runs as cool or cooler than it does now. Also, it would be nice if they could do this while increasing the CPU speed, making ram user upgradeable, and keeping the graphics as good or making them better. All of this in the same case design and I'd be sold on the 11 inch as my daily school/work computer. Come home and hook up to a 27inch ACD.

Inconsistencies are marked with red. Which one is more important?

 

[Twe Foju]

OS X does not support DirectX so DX10 vs DX11 is irrelevant.

well, for Bootcamp / Windows gaming that is

 

[Hellhammer]

well, for Bootcamp / Windows gaming that is

That isn't something that Apple cares about.

 

[2IS]

That isn't something that Apple cares about.

You're right. It would be quite uncharacteristic for Apple to do what the consumers want

 

[CorvetteZR1]

Inconsistencies are marked with red. Which one is more important?

Case design as in the way it looks. They would obviously have to re design the mother board to make the ram user upgradeable. I'm talking about the case, not the parts inside the case. I want the case to look the same. I like it as it is. But I want the ram user upgradeable. Steve Jobs is like Willy Wonka, he can make it happen.

 

[fyrefly]

You're right. It would be quite uncharacteristic for Apple to do what the consumers want

At the risk of sounding like I've dranken too much Steve Job-brand KoolAid today - I'd say that Apple routinely doesn't give people what they "want". It makes machines that people will realize they need, and it's often not based on specs or benchmarks, etc...

Take Netbooks for example. All kinds of pundits said Apple needs to come out with a netbook, or at least a low-cost 10" or less portable. Now Netbook sales are falling 40% 'cause of iPads.

And while some will argue that the 11" MBA is a "netbook", I'd venture to say it's more like a sibling to the 12" PBG4.

Apple took away floppies, and added USB before lots were ready. And they've all but abandoned Blu-Ray, and yet Apple's the only computer manufacturer posting year-over-year growth while other post declines.

John Gruber said it best, I think, when he said Apple's philosophy is to pare tech back to the bare minimum and then add from there, vs. trying to put in everything and the kitchen sink:

Some users may not like it, but Apple makes hard choices. And (at least so far, and financially) it's paying off.

More to your point - Apple's never been a gaming company. We've been spoiled with the 320m lately, but it was the last hurrah in the MBA universe. There's no easy way to get the 320m's performance + and IX processor w/o making the MBA thicker/have smaller battery/more weight. Gamers suffer. But I bet an i5 MBA will sell through lots and make Apple more money. Which ultimately is the point. They're a corporation beholden to the shareholders like any other.

 

[theturtle]

That isn't something that Apple cares about.

hhahaah totally agree

 

[yanksrock100]

maybe we should just wait for the macbook wheel....

 

[gri]

Dude seriously you need to calm down. This guy is speculating on a forum called Macrumors not Mac Gospel. Sheesh! Just ignore it if you don't like it.

It's MacRumors - not MacSpeculation. But i don't mind you discussing it though it won't influence my decision as I wait for the 2021 MBAs+ (super+) with MegaChip SensTronic architcture from Intronics/MG providing the fastest 5D performance EVER - though the upcoming Quantonics chip is only running 3 microWatt with the photosynthesis battery, one 10 minute charge lasts you 30 days if you don't use to much iHologram; of course charged by the sun. Maybe I wait for that then...

 

[ntrigue]

It could stay right where it is and up the battery an hour and I'd be pleased.

 

[TrollToddington]

They exist. We just can't buy them. Apple isn't stupid, they're at least testing the things. They may decide, "eh...we'll forget the Air and just ride Core 2 duos" but saying they don't exist is dumb. Things exist that the general public never knows about. Like the iPad was created (i.e. existed, probably a lot different than it is now) in 2004....it was 2010 before we ever saw it.

And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

 

[applefanDrew]

And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

Actually it's based on common sense. The tremendous growth of the MBA at the end of last year slowed when the refreshed MBP came out. Obviously, they will refresh the MBA (future of notebooks). When they do, it makes sense that they will put the latest (SB) procs in them. Last gen core i procs have worse graphics than SB. It's fairly obvious what the next MBA upgrade will be. Makes sense from business and technical standpoints.

 

[ghileman]

update on ivy bridge timing; looks like Q1-to-mid 2012 at the earliest:

http://www.9to5mac.com/69736/ivy-bridge-chips-pushed-to-2012-macs-will-have-to-wait/

 

[PraisiX-windows]

And your post is purely based on speculation. Stop calling me dumb, it is not polite. You could strengthen your point through providing some proof the SB and IB MBA do exist in Apple's factories. You can't, do you?

Hehe, I just thought I'd take the liberty to comment on this.
I mean, I probably shouldn't, but then again, you can't really blame me, do you?

 

[TrollToddington]

Point taken. English is not my mother language. I should have written "you can't, can you".

 

[Hellhammer]

update on ivy bridge timing; looks like Q1-to-mid 2012 at the earliest:

http://www.9to5mac.com/69736/ivy-bridge-chips-pushed-to-2012-macs-will-have-to-wait/

Dual cores and thus U/LV CPUs will be mid-2012 according to the rumors.

 

[trip1ex]

Why does this thread exist?

 

[tawcat]

I stopped by Best Buy today and the sales clerk told me that all the MBA's they had in stock were the newest release. I asked Sandy Bridge, they said yes.

I don't put a lot of value on that, being it was Best Buy people!

 

[zombierunner]

I will buy the macbook air in 2013.

 

[lazydesi]

so, those who are waiting for IB MBA, you need to wait until July 2012.

 

[WardC]

By that time, the MacBook Air will probably be running on ARM-based processors, Apple system-on-a-chip. Likely A7 or A8 processors. Apple is shifting away from intel for the MacBook Airs, they already have prototype MacBook Airs running on ARM, it is only a matter of time.

In that respects, you will be able to run some variant of Mac OS/ iOS also on the Air by that time.

 

[DavidC1]

"Significant"? Really? Everything I've read says IB graphics will be about 20% faster than SB. Which is about as fast as SB is from Arrandale, is it not?

I wouldn't be surprised if Ivy Bridge gains 2x performance in graphics over Sandy Bridge. That is in line with their generational gains. They also said back in Computex that they were aiming for 7x graphics performance gain by 2013(Haswell) in the Ultrabook form factor.

Sandy Bridge's graphics in the newest Macbook Air only seems 5-15% slower than the 320M. There's no doubt Ivy Bridge will outperform it significantly.

The Macbook Air on ARM is a baseless rumor. Why they would they opt for 1/3 performance and compatibility issues to maybe get 20-30% better battery life is beyond me.

 

[Hellhammer]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ivy Bridge gains 2x performance in graphics over Sandy Bridge. That is in line with their generational gains. They also said back in Computex that they were aiming for 7x graphics performance gain by 2013(Haswell) in the Ultrabook form factor.

Ivy Bridge will have only 16 EUs while Sandy Bridge has 12. That's 33% increase which isn't too promising. The micro-architecture is the same so you won't see any "hidden" gains either. The clock speeds would have to be increased dramatically to provide 100% better performance than SB.

My guess is that IB's graphics will end up being roughly 50% faster. Haswell is a new MA so Intel can do more tweaks to increase the performance.

 

[Jobsian]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, save for those who pollute it by disparaging the OP and tell him to stop, very ugly when that happens in the hive-mind here. The cordial posts that eg suggest the current gen cpus are functional are ok i guess and contribute to the thread, not the others.

No-one's forcing you to read this thread. Let others enjoy it, as they certainly are.

 

[DavidC1]

Ivy Bridge will have only 16 EUs while Sandy Bridge has 12. That's 33% increase which isn't too promising. The micro-architecture is the same so you won't see any "hidden" gains either. The clock speeds would have to be increased dramatically to provide 100% better performance than SB.

My guess is that IB's graphics will end up being roughly 50% faster. Haswell is a new MA so Intel can do more tweaks to increase the performance.

Remember, Intel has never increased EU count more than 20-30% per generation, yet got 2x gains. EUs alone won't get you high there. Think about it, if just increasing the EUs got you 100% scaling, that would mean performance is 100% bound, and that is just a bad design.

The microarchitecture has been "same" since the GMA X3000. Not the performance though.

GMA X3000: 8 EUs
GMA 4500: 10 EUs ~1.5-1.7x faster, more caches, 2x faster hardware VS, 20% higher clock
GMA HD: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, inclusion of a proper HSR mechanism, higher clock, better transcendental performance
HD 3000: 12 EUs ~1.5-2.5x faster, GPU Turbo mode, better transcendental performance, CPU cache sharing, CISC architecture

For Ivy Bridge we can expect not only higher clock, but possibly doubling the ROP and TMU units(every arch since GMA X3000 at 2 ROP/4 TMUs), along with a general change.

If anything, I'd bet on Ivy Bridge getting more benefits than Haswell, as the shrink affords more die size.