Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's very Apple to call "what people want" , "what people need", or "what people use" (take your pick) the "lowest common denominator".

The fact that to use your brand new $3000 laptop the normal way you need a "workaround" is exactly my point.

It would be like buying a car that you can't drive to the store unless you install an aftermarket workaround.

Ridiculous.

Macrumors used to be a gathering place for underground Apple lovers -- people who understood how great it was.

That all changed when it stopped being great like that.

No I think the better analogy is someone with a brand new car but their entire music library is on cassettes or in the very near future you can say CDs. So then yeah, they would need a work around. But the main function of my laptop isn't disabled if I can't connect my soon to be outdated hard drive to it out of the box.

Big picture of it all, I don't think using a different connector is even a workaround. When someone buys a new monitor but it uses a different cable than your last one, people don't complain about it and say it's ridiculous, they just buy a new wire. If you are always connecting jump drives to you mac, then you just start using a usb-c one, I have one with both A and C on the same one.

In theory, if it is really adopted, Apple is pushing towards eliminating all these different ports with the functionality of TB3/USB A. Power, display and data all on one universal connector.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bwintx and chabig
No I think the better analogy is someone with a brand new car but their entire music library is on cassettes or in the very near future you can say CDs. So then yeah, they would need a work around. But the main function of my laptop isn't disabled if I can't connect my soon to be outdated hard drive to it out of the box.

Big picture of it all, I don't think using a different connector is even a workaround. When someone buys a new monitor but it uses a different cable than your last one, people don't complain about it and say it's ridiculous, they just buy a new wire. If you are always connecting jump drives to you mac, then you just start using a usb-c one, I have one with both A and C on the same one.

In theory, if it is really adopted, Apple is pushing towards eliminating all these different ports with the functionality of TB3/USB A. Power, display and data all on one universal connector.
I get what they want to be true, but the fact is that connecting USB devices is as core to using a laptop as putting gas in a car.

If you had to use a special funnel adapter every time you fueled up your car you would be choked.

"Get full serve" people might say. "Wait until all gas pumps change over the next 5 years" they might say.

But it wouldn't mean it wasn't ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: idunn and heffsf
I get what they want to be true, but the fact is that connecting USB devices is as core to using a laptop as putting gas in a car.

If you had to use a special funnel adapter every time you fueled up your car you would be choked.

"Get full serve" people might say. "Wait until all gas pumps change over the next 5 years" they might say.

But it wouldn't mean it wasn't ridiculous.

Apple and Microsoft are still pushing their 1990’s agenda for eliminating externals and moving everthing to cloud. Then...no need for externals, external drives, CDs, USB drives etc.

Just a dumb terminal with everything cloud based.

Slow adaption...10 more years to complete “Big Brother”.
 
I get what they want to be true, but the fact is that connecting USB devices is as core to using a laptop as putting gas in a car.

If you had to use a special funnel adapter every time you fueled up your car you would be choked.

"Get full serve" people might say. "Wait until all gas pumps change over the next 5 years" they might say.

But it wouldn't mean it wasn't ridiculous.
I guess we will have to just disagree on how core an external USB-A drive is to using a computer.

Or you can look at it like this. You just bought your brand new Infiniti or luxury car. You used to just use 87 gas but now you have to use 91+ octane. You're not going to just sit there and say I can't drive my car because I don't want to have to spend more (get a new usb drive) for gas.

This has set the record for me by the way for the most analogies I have used in one day on a forum. lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chabig
I guess we will have to just disagree on how core an external USB-A drive is to using a computer.

Or you can look at it like this. You just bought your brand new Infiniti or luxury car. You used to just use 87 gas but now you have to use 91+ octane. You're not going to just sit there and say I can't drive my car because I don't want to have to spend more (get a new usb drive) for gas.

This has set the record for me by the way for the most analogies I have used in one day on a forum. lol.
Anyone with a cellphone (including an iPhone) has a USB-A cable that they use every single day.

Are you thinking of people who have laptops but no cellphones?

Also who never interact with a thumb drive and never connect to a monitor.

Yeah that's a pretty big group that Apple is meeting the needs of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: heffsf
The fact that to use your brand new $3000 laptop the normal way you need a "workaround" is exactly my point.

One man’s workaround is another man’s indispensable workflow.

With this hub, there is potential to connect all your peripherals to one device, which then connects directly to your MacBook. Then when you want to disconnect everything, simply disengage the hub, rather than having to fiddle with multiple wires.

Not at all unlike the Thunderbolt Display of old.
 
Anyone with a cellphone (including an iPhone) has a USB-A cable that they use every single day.

Are you thinking of people who have laptops but no cellphones?

Also who never interact with a thumb drive and never connect to a monitor.

Yeah that's a pretty big group that Apple is meeting the needs of.

Sorry man, but I just see what the big deal is.

In terms of my iPhone I now use the usb-c to lightning wire.

If your gripe with this is that you don't feel anyone should spend money on a brand new laptop and then have to buy some new wires or an adapter then I get it. It's an annoyance because it costs extra for that.

So for me, it cost about $2600 for the one I recently bought and about $100 total for the usb-c to lightning wire and multiport adapter. I just see that as the price of upgrading to new technology. Would I prefer the MacBook to have one usb-a port? Sure, it would be nice, but in no way is it a deal breaker or do I feel it renders my computer useless. My last macbook only had 2 usb-a ports so I often used a hub anyway. I also run a lot of presentations on my Mac and HDMI out, which my last one had, is by far not the norm for AV setups at conferences so I always have adapters for DVI or VGA. So even then I had to use hubs and adapters.

Do you have a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro? Is your annoyance here based on principle or experience?


And..... I just checked out some of your other posts......... are you paid to come on here or is it just a hobby? Nothing but criticism for anything apple.... Why though? I've seen other people on the forums like this too, I just don't get it.
 
Last edited:
Sorry man, but I just see what the big deal is.

In terms of my iPhone I now use the usb-c to lightning wire.

If your gripe with this is that you don't feel anyone should spend money on a brand new laptop and then have to buy some new wires or an adapter then I get it. It's an annoyance because it costs extra for that.

So for me, it cost about $2600 for the one I recently bought and about $100 total for the usb-c to lightning wire and multiport adapter. I just see that as the price of upgrading to new technology. Would I prefer the MacBook to have one usb-a port? Sure, it would be nice, but in no way is it a deal breaker or do I feel it renders my computer useless. My last macbook only had 2 usb-a ports so I often used a hub anyway. I also run a lot of presentations on my Mac and HDMI out, which my last one had, is by far not the norm for AV setups at conferences so I always have adapters for DVI or VGA. So even then I had to use hubs and adapters.

Do you have a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro? Is your annoyance here based on principle or experience?


And..... I just checked out some of your other posts......... are you paid to come on here or is it just a hobby? Nothing but criticism for anything apple.... Why though? I've seen other people on the forums like this too, I just don't get it.
I didn't say it's useless. Just stupid.

Mac owner and fervent defender and evangelist from 1999 through the early 2010's here.

When they make a computer thats not stupid again I'll start saying nice things again.
 
Very few laptops from PC manufacturers include ethernet ports these days - not sure why people are bitching about Apple not including one.

...because we still need them for fast and reliable network connections? Just gave up on the WiFi at work because it kept dropping out. At home, well, the latest WiFi tech is faster than gigabit ethernet... in ideal conditions that won't happen outside a lab. However, most of us gave up moaning about that 5 years ago... and at least when the 2012 rMBP dropped ethernet it added an extra TB and HDMI c.f. the old MBP so you had more places to stick the dongle.

HDMI? Maybe. I got used to Apple's inclusion of the mDP port, so I always carried a couple of adapters (HDMI, VGA) in my laptop bag anyway

I'd be happy with a dedicated mDP port, which would accept the cables and dongles I already have, as long as you don't have to waste one of your 4 data ports by plugging in a display....

*some users need

When you only make a couple of models of laptops, some of them need to work for "some users". Pretty sure that if I rummaged through the thicket of different models on Dell/Lenovo's website or tried a couple of smaller OEMs I could find a PC that still has USB-A ports.

Thing is, if a laptop has a connector that you don't need, that's much less of a problem than not having a connector that you do need.

I just got an external ssd drive in a usb-c enclosure. 400+ mb/s.

...which would still do 400+ MB/s plugged into a USB 3 type A port (and probably came with the USB-A cable in the box). OK, so you could have sprung for one of the USB 3.1gen2 models that are now emerging and got 540 MB/s (you'd definitely maybe notice the difference with a synthetic benchmark but don't expect twice as fast) if it was plugged directly into a 3.1g2 port on the laptop (most hubs and docks only do 3.1g1) but then 3.1g2 doesn't need USB-C connectors: quite a few PC motherboards offer 3.1g2 USB-A ports.

My monitors hook up with display port to usb-c wires.

...needlessly occupying a valuable USB/Thunderbolt port and (incidentally) limiting the connection to DP1.2a even if your GPU can support DP1.4 (hopefully any future Macs will have the new Thunderbolt controllers which at least fix that). Also see multiple threads from people who've had trouble with getting USB-C to DP cables to work - they're not just simple cables that wire the USB C port to the correct pins on the DP port.

USB-C doesn't really offer anything that couldn't be done with existing interfaces. Its "party trick" is combining several unrelated functions (power, display, high-speed data) into one connector, which may be an asset on a phone or tablet that can only physically accommodate one port, but is a ruddy nuisance on a full-sized laptop.

E.g. the number of TB3 and USB3.1g2 ports - and, hence, full-function USB-C ports - is constrained by the availability of PCIe lanes. That shouldn't affect display ports, power sockets or even slower USB connectors. Plugging in a regular display shouldn't "use up" a potential USB 3.1g2 or TB3 port. Of course, Apple could have added a couple of extra "basic" USB-C ports with no TB3 or 3.1g2... or maybe 3.1g2 but no DP... or maybe DP and USB2.0... or.... Ok, right, that's why they wouldn't do that.

E.g. with high-frequency 4k displays and 5k displays becoming the norm, and 8k coming soon, the bandwidth used by displays is increasing dramatically, so sharing display data and other high-speed data on a single cable is becoming less practical. The new TB controller with DP1.4 support might halp a bit - when hubs and docks have caught up.

E.g. magsafe was a great idea for power cables - laptops mostly don't care if the power cable was pulled, and its power cables that get trailed over the floor in meetings etc. - its a stupid idea for connecting multiple storage arrays where pulling the plug has consequences - and using a tiny plug with no retention clips that falls out of its socket with a hard stare is pretty stupid for such applications, too.

E.g. if they'd made DisplayPort Alt Mode so it worked with simple pin-to-pin USB-C-to-DP cables (like the "legacy MiniDP mode" in TB1/2) that would have been better, but it doesn't, and some cable makers have clearly done it wrong.

E.g. you now have the choice of "wasting" one of your high-speed data ports/external display connections by plugging in a charger - or needing a dock/dongle just to plug in a charger (I'm particularly thinking of the 12" MacBook and non-TouchBar MBP here with only 1 or 2 USB-C ports, respectively).
 
From all the bitching and complaining on MacRumors - I was terrified to get my new 15” touch bar rMBP with my 3yr hardware refresh at work.

The keyboard is great. USB-C is amazing, and the power adapter and other cords plug in firmly and work great. Love the large trackpad. Thin. Light. Overall a great machine and improvement. I may miss the physical ESC button a bit (looking at you vi), but it’s not a show stopper and I’m getting used to it.

I can see why their sales are great. They are awesome machines and I love mine.

The 1TB “SSS” is blazing fast. Would have loved 32GB RAM vs 16GB RAM - but that’s on Intel and chipset support for LPDDR4.

I don’t get the complaining. The future is wireless. And if we can have a single port to rule them all - that *simplifies* everything long term.

Absolutely love it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bwintx
From all the bitching and complaining on MacRumors - I was terrified to get my new 15” touch bar rMBP with my 3yr hardware refresh at work.

The keyboard is great. USB-C is amazing, and the power adapter and other cords plug in firmly and work great. Love the large trackpad. Thin. Light. Overall a great machine and improvement. I may miss the physical ESC button a bit (looking at you vi), but it’s not a show stopper and I’m getting used to it.

I can see why their sales are great. They are awesome machines and I love mine.

The 1TB “SSS” is blazing fast. Would have loved 32GB RAM vs 16GB RAM - but that’s on Intel and chipset support for LPDDR4.

I don’t get the complaining. The future is wireless. And if we can have a single port to rule them all - that *simplifies* everything long term.

Absolutely love it.

Totally agree. The slightly smaller form factor of the 15" compared to the old models makes a big difference to me as well seeing as I travel a lot. I can't imagine going back to my mid-2012 now! Would seem so clunky.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoulderAdonis
...needlessly occupying a valuable USB/Thunderbolt port and (incidentally) limiting the connection to DP1.2a even if your GPU can support DP1.4 (hopefully any future Macs will have the new Thunderbolt controllers which at least fix that). Also see multiple threads from people who've had trouble with getting USB-C to DP cables to work - they're not just simple cables that wire the USB C port to the correct pins on the DP port.

I grabbed two cheap wires off of amazon and have had zero issues.

E.g. with high-frequency 4k displays and 5k displays becoming the norm, and 8k coming soon, the bandwidth used by displays is increasing dramatically, so sharing display data and other high-speed data on a single cable is becoming less practical. The new TB controller with DP1.4 support might halp a bit - when hubs and docks have caught up.

As see it as a start in the right direction. I'm sure it will evolve to accommodate greater demands.

its a stupid idea for connecting multiple storage arrays where pulling the plug has consequences - and using a tiny plug with no retention clips that falls out of its socket with a hard stare is pretty stupid for such applications, too.

I can't imagine ever seeing retention clips on a laptop now that DVI and VGA connectors are outdated.

E.g. you now have the choice of "wasting" one of your high-speed data ports/external display connections by plugging in a charger - or needing a dock/dongle just to plug in a charger (I'm particularly thinking of the 12" MacBook and non-TouchBar MBP here with only 1 or 2 USB-C ports, respectively).

I think what is being overlooked is that a laptops primary purpose is to be portable. Some of these criticisms I think would be more valid if we were talking about a desktop computer. My mid-2017 MacBook Pro has replaced my 2009 Mac Pro 2x2.93 Quad core, 28GB Ram. I own a creative services business and I do a lot of video production, on a long After Effects render my laptop outperformed my Mac Pro. So for now I am using it to fill the role my Mac Pro had until Apple comes out with a new one hopefully next year. There are compromises I had to make to do that but I don't hold a laptop up to the same standards I would a desktop. It's great if people want to use it that way but it does come with limitations.

I have preordered the Caldigit TS3 Plus which looks really promising and will free up 2-3 of the ports.
http://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-3-dock/thunderbolt-station-3-plus/

You mentioned the MacBook, I had to buy one in 2016 to be a backup laptop for presentations at a conference. I have no defense of the pure stupidity it was for them to only have one port.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoulderAdonis
I like articles like this. It reminds me that I made the right decision last year to buy a used 2015 MBP with its USB 3.0, SD slot, HDMI and MagSafe. I’m sure they’re great machines otherwise but needing a dongle would do my head in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: idunn and heffsf
Almost, almost perfect. Full size SD card and dual monitor support would have made this my go to accessory for all my clients.

Also curious about the actual speed of that 'gigabit' ethernet port. Most USB-C adapters do not support full gigabit speeds.
 
I think what is being overlooked is that a laptops primary purpose is to be portable.

Yes, but "portability" isn't just about size and weight, it's about how many other boxes you have to carry around. It sounds great to make the laptop 10% smaller, but if that means you suddenly have to carry a hub and/or a bunch of dongles, plus wires, where, previously, you could just have taken the laptop then it doesn't really improve portability.

Its great to have an option - like the MacBook Air or the 12" MacBook, that's optimised for someone who e.g. needs to carry the machine around college all day, or who wants to write notes/watch videos while travelling economy class - but now the entire MacBook range seems to be optimised for that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: idunn and heffsf
Need. More. USB ports. I want unit like that, but with 4-5 usb 3 ports.

I have 2017 MBP and USB-C is daily PITA.
 
It should be noted that my 2012 MBP doesn't require such an adapter as having most of these ports built in. HDMI and USB-C were before its time, but it does have the Gigabit Ethernet port, two type-A USB 3.0 ports, and an SD card slot (not to mention a Display port, Thunderbolt—AND MagSafe, etc.). In other words, Apple kindly provided the necessary ports standard at that time, as would be expected in what was then billed as and indeed a professional computer.

Oh, yes, also relatively easy to service, with a decided lack of glue.

I would like to upgrade as some advancements have been made, yet waiting for Apple to come to its senses first. I'm in no mood to pay more for what is quite arguably—in many respects—less.
 
Last edited:
Apple knows that "wireless" is the truly universal port that the world needs, and they are pushing the world towards that by removing still-needed physical ports.

USB was a noble effort, but it was far from "universal", as it was intended to be. The fact that there were different shapes, sizes and features of USB is a clear indicator of that. Blame Intel for their short-sightedness, not Apple.
[doublepost=1524962000][/doublepost]
It's very Apple to call "what people want" , "what people need", or "what people use" (take your pick) the "lowest common denominator".

The fact that to use your brand new $3000 laptop the normal way you need a "workaround" is exactly my point.

It would be like buying a car that you can't drive to the store unless you install an aftermarket workaround.

Ridiculous.

Macrumors used to be a gathering place for underground Apple lovers -- people who understood how great it was.

That all changed when it stopped being great like that.

I disagree. Apple continues to make great. But the tech has evolved so much, consumer expectations are out of control. A potential customer picks up an iPhone and says "this is too limited for me" without even considering all of the amazing tech built into it. That way of thinking is why Apple is on the path they are on... they know they can't please everyone, so they choose to push the envelope instead. The casualties of this decision are their own customers, though.
 
The problem with USB Type C isn't in the speed (it is really fast), it is with the poor quality of the hardware component. The very design of USB Type C connector and port isn't very sturdy. Even my pricey USB Type C hub wobbles in the port, causing any connected devices to disconnect, then reconnect, then disconnect, etc.
This hub plugs into two USB-C ports in parallel. That should make it somewhat more stable.
 
I bought a USB Type C hub for my 2016 MBP not long ago from Amazon. It cost me almost $70, and I am still using it to this day, but I can't connect any external hard drives to it.

The problem with USB Type C isn't in the speed (it is really fast), it is with the poor quality of the hardware component. The very design of USB Type C connector and port isn't very sturdy. Even my pricey USB Type C hub wobbles in the port, causing any connected devices to disconnect, then reconnect, then disconnect, etc. This has also happened with much cheaper hubs I have bought, so price (read: quality) isn't an issue here. It only compounds the dongle hell issue that a lot of 2016 MBP owners experience.

So with Satechi's new hub (if I were to buy it), I can now expect Ethernet to disconnect, then reconnect, then disconnect, etc. I would hope that they and other hub manufacturers would design some sort of clip that would secure it more firmly to the MBP, so the wobble would hopefully go away. I really hope that USB Type C goes the way of the dodo very soon, or the connector and port are redesigned to make them more sturdy.

I have the same issue, exactly with my Satechi Type C Pro hub adaptor. It has also 2 USB-C connectors to be attached. Cost me 85€ and started to wobbles in a period of months causing disconnections and even corrupted my external hard drive because it got disconnected while writing a file.
 
Great....so they add a $0.30 part (ethernet plug) onto the pre-existing adapter and then use that as an excuse to call it "pro" and add $30 to the price. Sigh....all I want is a cheap and reliable adapter that will let me plug in a couple of usb cables and an ethernet port for speed when I'm working at home...and act as a pass through with my LG ultrafine 4k
 
Apple knows that "wireless" is the truly universal port that the world needs, and they are pushing the world towards that by removing still-needed physical ports.

USB was a noble effort, but it was far from "universal", as it was intended to be. The fact that there were different shapes, sizes and features of USB is a clear indicator of that. Blame Intel for their short-sightedness, not Apple.
[doublepost=1524962000][/doublepost]

I disagree. Apple continues to make great. But the tech has evolved so much, consumer expectations are out of control. A potential customer picks up an iPhone and says "this is too limited for me" without even considering all of the amazing tech built into it. That way of thinking is why Apple is on the path they are on... they know they can't please everyone, so they choose to push the envelope instead. The casualties of this decision are their own customers, though.
Apple can see where it's going just like everyone can see where it's going.

It's not like USB and display Cables are some weird legacy standard that just won't die.

They are probably on 99% of things you connect to a laptop including Apple's own thousand-dollar bleeding-edge smartphone!

They come with everything and Apple disallowed you from using them years before the natural transition to USB-C.

This is minimalism for the sake of minimalism -- in a way that drives the majority of would-be users insane rather than impressing them with Apple's "courage".

That's not what made Apple great and not what Steve was about. And it's why Apple has lost the thread on computers and is on the verge of losing their way on phones.

Notice that macrumors doesn't say a peep about this:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...-mulls-400bn-payout-to-shareholders-73nsx353w

Apple is so confused that they are willing to literally pay shareholders cash bribes to stay interested.

Now you hold Apple stock not because of their compelling technology narrative, but instead because they are offering you cash from their bank account not to go away.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.