I think devs can release different versioms of the same app, it all comes down if they care to do so.
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Say goodbye to great apps on iPhone 3G
- Thread starter jamesr19
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I think devs can release different versioms of the same app, it all comes down if they care to do so.
Why would they do that? Apple is primarily a hardware company, they make money from making users upgrade to the latest and greatest devices.
And you can't use a device from 2008 in 2013 and complain it isn't supported properly. The 2G iPod touch is literally five years old for crying out loud! I'm surprised the things even boot, let alone run apps.
This is the unfortunate mentality of people these days. "This is five years old. How can it work?" Well, why not. People aren't even really asking Apple to support anything. This is just another example of why Apple's App Store being the only store available on a non modified firmware is bad for the consumer.
It's just the rate of technological development in modern computing. I would say the same thing to anyone complaining the latest version of Photoshop doesn't work properly on a five year old laptop too.
And you are asking Apple to support something, if you want all the new apps to work on legacy hardware Apple would need to update it all to the latest version of iOS.
developers will keep supporting a device as long as there are enough users. and there will probably still be tens of.millions of 3g users for.another couple of years. and there are also touch users from the same generation. I'm writing this from my balckberry playbook that was a total flop and had very limited sales. but it got dungeon hunter 3 ported to it yesterday. so it is still getting support. and it is much less popular than the 3g.
The person you quoted isn't really asking for latest versions of apps. People just want to be able to use whatever version of the app as last made for the device. Once the app has been updated on Apple's servers, that's it.
And, for what it's worth, the latest version of photoshop should work just fine on even five year old hardware. The key point is, when it doesn't work, it's literally te hardware limiting it, not the distributor of the OS.
RWL2013 has already showed you a method for using old versions of apps on old iOS versions.
It would run slowly and inefficiently, and my old MacBook can't run OS X Mountain Lion because, well, the hardware is very old. Same goes for Windows, there is always a minimum system spec sheet for all Microsoft operating systems.
Sure he did. It requires you have a current piece of hardware. Again, I am speaking why Apple's distribution system is te problem. If I'm required to own newer hardware to use older versions of software on an older piece of hardware, what's the point? I'm still in the same predicament (and that is where they would like to have me I am sure). I also question the legality as you aren't supposed to just be able to download an ipa outside of the AppStore. Technically speaking, a downloaded ipa would be a cracked app I would think.
In short, This is not a solution, but a loophole that is only available to those who have invested in newer hardware. If you happen to want to use an older device you own for the simple nostalgia (or whatever), great. If you happen to only own that device, you are sol because of the way the system is set up. THAT is the problem (not to mention the fact that the average joe isn't going to have any idea how to do any of this).
My point with the software thing is, it will work. One can easily install windows 7 or 8 on a 5+ year old system no problems. But we went talking operating systems. Because guess what? I always have the freedom to reload te operating system. That's not the problem. The problem is apps. And I repeat. We are not talking about wanting to load newest versions if apps on outdated hardware. We are talking about not having access to the apps that were made for said hardware in the first place due to the way the software is distributed.
As a semi-side note, there is actually a lawsuits going on that covers this, to some extent (not being able to load apps from other sources and whether it not that is anticompetitive).
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Okay, so we're not talking newer operating systems but newer apps. Can you run the latest version of Photoshop on Windows 2000? Can you run the latest version of Safari, Firefox, or Chrome on a Mac running OS X Tiger?
Newer versions of iOS have newer APIs which apps take advantage of, and after years of development (iOS 3 on old iPods vs. iOS 6 on current ones) there is a massive difference between what those apps can do on each version. Apps for current iOS versions would not be able to function correctly on outdated iOS versions, simple as that.
You insisting Apple continue to provide legacy software, but why? Can you go into a shop and buy a version of Photoshop that runs on Windows 2000? No, you have to go online and probably pirate that old version if you want to do that. You can do the same thing here using an unofficial app repo on an old iOS device.
I don't complain I can't run all the latest software on my iMac G4 because I know that, although it's a nice machine that brings about feelings of nostalgia for me, it is frankly crap hardware wise compared to modern computers. Second generation iPods are the same. Unless you're emotionally attached to it, throw it in the bin and buy a new one.
There are around five of those every month, none of them ever gets anywhere. I dislike Apple's walled garden too... which is why I don't buy iOS devices anymore. Seriously just go get an Android device if you want to sideload apps.
Apple could make more of an effort...
If Apple changed the App Store so that downloading an app on an older device would download the last version compatible with that device, that would be a REAL solution to the problem. Right now its almost as if they want you to download the apps "illegally" from elsewhere and transfer them to the device!
I'm actually going to ask Apple about this now. It's unlikely I'll get much out of it, but worth a try at least.
If Apple changed the App Store so that downloading an app on an older device would download the last version compatible with that device, that would be a REAL solution to the problem. Right now its almost as if they want you to download the apps "illegally" from elsewhere and transfer them to the device!
I'm actually going to ask Apple about this now. It's unlikely I'll get much out of it, but worth a try at least.
This is where you insist on putting words in my mouth(or just really, really don't get what I am saying here). No, you cannot install photoshop onto windows 2000. But a windows 2000 pc can be upgraded to newer versions of windows. But te most important point is that I am free to legitimately and legally, without going through loopholes, install an older version of photoshop. In fact, adobe is happy to help you with older versions of photoshop and have made some of them free. Why? Because they are free to distribute (and sell, if they choose) the software. They don't have to go through some AppStore.
Again, you say I insist apple continue to provide older software. That is absolutely not what I have said at any point in our conversation. What I am saying is that I recognize the issue that the AppStore imposes; the fact that I am only ever legitimately allowed to download software from said AppStore. The fact that an ipa is available on some site does not make it legitimate. In fact, I would venture to say the fast majority, if not all, "legacy" ipa you find online are not legally obtained/obtainable. As such, the loophole that is available is not really an answer (not is it supposed to exist if Apple knew about it before dumping 3G support, but the latter is just an assumption on my part, albeit a safe one I think).
So again, since you keep misinterpreting my meaning, my issue is with the AppStore and how it is te limited distributor of apps. In this specific case I feel the customer loses, and again, this is why there is a lawsuit about it. You may claim no lawsuits gets anywhere. While you are free to make said claim, it would be an incorrect one. Users of the 3GS who were denied warranty service due to water indicator damages were just ruled that they were entitled to $200 for the repairs that they likely paid out of pocket. Apple gets hit with fines all the time, and are forced to change things to comply with laws. The EU is also looking into Apple's anticompetitive AppStore nature in Europe. The sampler lawsuits in the states isn't huge, but the eu looking into them is a pretty big deal. If you don't think so, that's completely fine, but simply assuming nothing will come of a lawsuit is a bit of an overstep IMO.
By the way, I'm not sure d you're aware of how the windows phone store works, but it's essentially the same as the AppStore in terms of how apps are sold, stored etc. unfortunate windows phone 7 users, who's phones are as little as six with months old (in fact they still sell them) run into this issue, on a lesser scale, again based on the distribution model.
Edit: excuse the typos. I'm posting on my phone.
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A PC that came with Windows 2000 won't be able to run Windows 8. A Mac that came with OS X Tiger won't be able to run Mountain Lion.
You can't walk into a store and buy it, you have to get it online like I said. With the iPhone it's a little different because you only have the store unless you jailbreak, but guess what? You knew that before you bought the thing. I don't buy a Honda Accord and complain when a Bugatti can go faster because I know what I'm buying.
Like I said, if you think sideloading is so important you can buy an Android device instead, no one's stopping you. It's up to you as a consumer to do your own research and decide the device that's best for you. Personally I hate Apple's walled garden and I hate their hypocritical censorship too, so I am not buying iOS devices anymore. That's the solution to the problem.
Like I said, if you want a platform that allows sideloading, Android is right there.
Apple's been a walled garden ever since the first iPod in 2001 and since then many have tried to sue them over it and no one has got anywhere. Like I said, it is up to the user to buy a product that's right for them. Vote with your wallet if like me you hate walled gardens, don't buy a product you know is a walled garden then complain about it afterwards.
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People don't seem to understand the concept of backups here. From day 1 of opening the iTunes Store, Apple has made it clear that YOU as the customer need to take care of your purchases. They give you the long list of terms and conditions that basically say, "This app or song might not be here next week, so please take the time to back them up." When you update apps, they don't even get deleted automatically, they go in your trashcan and are easy enough to move out for backup purposes.
The iPhone 3G is going to be five years old this summer. That doesn't seem like a long time, until you realize all the technology advancements that have happened since then. Not that it isn't still a very good phone, but Windows Mobile and Palm OS were still in the spotlight during that time too, and those are totally obsolete now.
Even if there was access to older apps via Apple, it still would be very outdated software that may or may not work due to API changes. Stuff like OpenFeint is dead too, and a LOT of iOS 3 games used it.
The iPhone 3G is going to be five years old this summer. That doesn't seem like a long time, until you realize all the technology advancements that have happened since then. Not that it isn't still a very good phone, but Windows Mobile and Palm OS were still in the spotlight during that time too, and those are totally obsolete now.
Even if there was access to older apps via Apple, it still would be very outdated software that may or may not work due to API changes. Stuff like OpenFeint is dead too, and a LOT of iOS 3 games used it.
Why buy a $700 phone to make phone calls, and then a $2400 2yr contract? That is insane.
Why not a 3GS for phoning, at least until there are choices in my area for reasonable contracts and plans.
Per a previous post, now I am nervous that the blue tooth may not work with software upgrades. Any suggestions appreciated.
You cannot expect Apple to fully support old devices, but to actually kill off the functionality they had is wrong at best.
Why not a 3GS for phoning, at least until there are choices in my area for reasonable contracts and plans.
Per a previous post, now I am nervous that the blue tooth may not work with software upgrades. Any suggestions appreciated.
You cannot expect Apple to fully support old devices, but to actually kill off the functionality they had is wrong at best.
I used to use an OG iPod until it died just as a fashion statement, they are cool gadgets even if just for the retro style
I don't complain that they aren't able to run apps, however
In assuming that was a typo about a Mac that came with OSX Lion not running mountain lion, because that isn't accurate (and I'm honestly certain you know that).
Depending on the hardware that you purchased with windows 2000, yes, windows 8 will run on it. But again that's not the point, and I'm quite certain by now you know that. We are talking about legacy apps on legacy operating systems running on legacy hardware. (And why are we comparing 13+ year old computers to a 5 year old phone? Windows 8 will definitely run on everything newer than five years old...)
My point is, which I think you see now, the AppStore. Again, this is the reason that the lawsuits exist. If it is deemed anticompetitive, it doesn't matter that android allows side loading. The excuse isn't good enough. I'm on the side of That not being a good enough excuse and am genuinely curious how the courts decide. "Don't like it, buy an Android" doesn't fly with me (and I've already bought one, many in fact). If you don't feel the same way, that's perfectly fine. Agree to disagree until we see a ruling.
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My story
I still have an iphone 3G 16gb that I got from my friend for $40(came with box, unused headphones and charger, all papers and cloth thing).
I'm on T-mobile with calling/unlim texting/ NO data and can't afford pay the ridiculous price of $580 for a phone. My ipod classic is what I use for music and I throw some artists on the iphone for listening to when driving.
I laugh at people who make fun of my(Oh yes there are people, "OMG a 3G?") because I paid $40 for this thing and I pay probably $15 a month for my texting and calling(family plan divided by 4)
I still have the original snapchat, monopoloy, splode, tetris, and the impossible game for 3rd party apps.
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I don't think my poor ass using a 3G is ironic at all. Not paying over $200 a phone and I might try to get a 3GS or 4 when the 5S comes out since they'll be cheaper.
I still have an iphone 3G 16gb that I got from my friend for $40(came with box, unused headphones and charger, all papers and cloth thing).
I'm on T-mobile with calling/unlim texting/ NO data and can't afford pay the ridiculous price of $580 for a phone. My ipod classic is what I use for music and I throw some artists on the iphone for listening to when driving.
I laugh at people who make fun of my(Oh yes there are people, "OMG a 3G?") because I paid $40 for this thing and I pay probably $15 a month for my texting and calling(family plan divided by 4)
I still have the original snapchat, monopoloy, splode, tetris, and the impossible game for 3rd party apps.
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I don't think my poor ass using a 3G is ironic at all. Not paying over $200 a phone and I might try to get a 3GS or 4 when the 5S comes out since they'll be cheaper.
Indeed, it's a typo, I meant OS X Tiger.
Make up your mind! You've complained about everything from lack of support for old iOS versions to lack of legacy apps to lack of updates! None of it matters though because the solution is to update your bloody hardware.
My old MacBook, which is "only" 5 years old, cannot run Mountain Lion. Give it a few years and it'll run very few apps because all apps will start to use APIs for the new OSs that are around by then. Only some developers will provide legacy software, and the Mac App Store certainly doesn't. These are comparable situations.
My point is, which I think you see now, the AppStore. Again, this is the reason that the lawsuits exist. If it is deemed anticompetitive, it doesn't matter that android allows side loading. The excuse isn't good enough. I'm on the side of That not being a good enough excuse and am genuinely curious how the courts decide. "Don't like it, buy an Android" doesn't fly with me (and I've already bought one, many in fact). If you don't feel the same way, that's perfectly fine. Agree to disagree until we see a ruling.
All I'm saying is, if you buy an Apple product, you do so on the understanding you are buying into a walled garden. Furthermore, you also buy into it with the understanding that current software will support it for a few years and legacy software will likely not be made available. Again, this is public knowledge which you should know before purchasing the product. So you can't complain that the Honda you bought isn't actually a Bugatti - that was obvious at the time you bought it. If you want a Bugatti, buy a Samsung
But yes, the ruling will either:
a) Be basically what I just said, or
b) Be a fine for being naughty with no real consequences for the end consumer or indeed Apple seeing as they have more money than the US government in the bank
I think I've been pretty clear with my complaints. I never complained that apple dropped support in old hardware (though other did, perhaps you are confusing me with them?), nor did i ever complain about developers not producing bewer apps for older hardware. I chimed in on another users post who was complaining of not being able to legitimately/legally install older versions of apps on her 3G. That is, and always has been, my only complaint.
Talk about desktop operating systems only came up as a direct response to you, as you brought them up. If and when developers will stop allowing is to use older versions of their apps, perhaps I will be upset with them. I certainly won't be upset with Apple because, unless they change things in future builds of osx, they won't be the only venue from which said apps can be downloaded.
So you can't complain that the Honda you bought isn't actually a Bugatti - that was obvious at the time you bought it. If you want a Bugatti, buy a Samsung
This analogy doesn't make any sense at all. Once again, I am left baffled by your lack of understanding what I am saying. I am not asking you to agree with my thoughts, but clearly, you don't even comprehend them if you think that comparing the purchase of a Honda vs a Bugati adds even the slightest bit of value to this conversation. I am not comparing products here. I am complaining about the consumer being hurt due to anti-competitive actions Apple has taken in the name of "security".
This isn't necessarily true. If Apple is deemed to be practicing anti competitive behavior, they may see a fine AND be told to change their actions. "Money solves all legal problems" is truly an overly simplistic view of the system, though it is a view that a lot of people, maybe those who don't know better, seem to share. The fact that Apple have a stockpile of cash is irrelevant, as it should be.
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You're right—that would be a real and very possible solution.
What they want is for you to upgrade your phone every generation or two. I don't cry 'planned obsolescence' every time an OS doesn't support outdated hardware, but this issue, where apps you once paid for are no longer available in a version that will run on your device is a perfect example of planned obsolescence. It's just wrong.
I don't remember Apple ever pushing backups of apps (your app data maybe, but not apps). What, it's in the iTunes Store 'long list of terms and conditions' you say? Who reads that? 1% of the population? That's not there to make anything clear to customers—it's there to protect Apple from being sued.
Apple always allowed you to download apps directly to your phone without syncing to your Mac, which is what I did when I got my 3G—and that's the preferred model they have long been pushing. (i.e. Mac/PC syncing is out, and iCloud is in.)