Screw the new airport extreme...

[wakerider017]

Wakerider, I have the same beef about lack of gigabit, however, I am confused how you can say one product "sucks" and recommend another when you don't own either one

Have you been hanging out with buckwheat?

Not sure who buckwheat is... Is that some cartoon or something?

I really did not recommend the linksys router. I simply pointed out that it included some features that the APX was lacking. And in my 2nd post I contrasted it to the linksys and pointed out that the APX does have a few advantages.

Additionally I never said the APX sucks. You are putting words in my mouth. (The only person in here who said the APX sucks is logandzwon)

In fact the one point I made is that I will not buy a draft n product. So why would I be recommending any routers that where indeed draft n?

 

[jeremy.king]

Not sure who buckwheat is... Is that some cartoon or something?

He had a thread where he made up benchmarks to bash the AEX.

Additionally I never said the APX sucks. You are putting words in my mouth. (The only person in here who said the APX sucks is logandzwon)

Sorry, "screw the new airport extreme" sounds a lot like you are saying it sucks.

So why would I be recommending any routers that where indeed draft n?

Now this is what I am talking about.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Sate...632665&pagename=Linksys/Common/VisitorWrapper

Wireless n router with 10/100/1000 switch. Complete with the wonderful linksys firmware that is oh so versatile.

Yummy.

Sorry guys it may not be an product....

But when it comes to a home network I am more about function than beauty.

Sorry I thought this sounded an awful lot like a recommendation to me...

In fact the one point I made is that I will not buy a draft n product. So why would I be recommending any routers that where indeed draft n?

Then what was your point of this thread? To let everyone know AEX doesn't have gigabit?

 

[wakerider017]

He had a thread where he made up benchmarks to bash the AEX.



Sorry, "screw the new airport extreme" sounds a lot like you are saying it sucks.




Sorry I thought this sounded an awful lot like a recommendation to me...



Then what was your point of this thread? To let everyone know AEX doesn't have gigabit?

When you take things out of context (your bolding) you can make things seem anyway you want.

I certainly do like a lot of the features linksys routers have. And for me it was exciting to see how they are moving forward. This is a far stretch from recommending it though. Why didn't you bold where I said I would not buy a draft n product?

(Don't see how you could interpret me saying I would not buy a draft n router, into me saying I recommend it?)

You not saying I am making numbers up are you? (Like "buckwheat")

The APX does not suck, but it is missing some key features. The linksys has some of those features that the APX does not have. As I have said a million time now, I would not buy either.

 

[jeremy.king]

So you make all of this noise - cleverly worded as flamebait (see title) - for sake of attention just to let everyone know that AEX doesn't have gigabit and that there are pre-n routers that do have it? Wow! thanks Captain Obvious!

Most threads here have a purpose - this thread, however...does not.

 

[wakerider017]

So you make all of this noise - cleverly worded as flamebait (see title) - for sake of attention just to let everyone know that AEX doesn't have gigabit and that there are pre-n routers that do have it? Wow! thanks Captain Obvious!

Most threads here have a purpose - this thread, however...does not.

Most posters can discuss something with out trying to start a war - you, however...can not.

I tried to keep this thread civil by listing the +'s/-'s of each. Seems like you as well as some others want to "flame" about something. Especially if it is not pro apple.

There is more to it than just no gigabit... The APX can only be connected to 3 computers via ethernet with out an extra switch, The firmware is not that hot for those of us that like to customize and forward ports on a regular basis.

I have also heard unconfirmed reports that it is hard to setup with a PC (Don't know if there is any truth to that). Additionally the external HDD capability is supposed to have an incredibly slow transfer rate.

But yah, gigabit is the biggest downer for me

 

[2ndPath]

Everyone is talking about possible or not possible limitations of the wireless through put caused by Gigabit Ethernet not beeing included in the new Airport extreme. However, there is a second place where it might be really missing:

One of the nice features of the new Airport Extreme it the USB port, where an external HD can be connected. If the USB port is 2.0, which I didn't see mentioned on the Apple page, but it is almost certainly the case, then this has a bandwidth of up to 480 Mbits/s. Via Gigabit Ethernet that could be fully saturated, but with 100Mbit ethernet this is far from being the case.

Ok, the Airport Express base station is primarily a wireless networking product, but then again it is the only switch-like networking product Apple is selling. Considering that Apple even includes Gigabit ethernet in its cheapest computer, the mini, it is a bit surprising that they do not include it in the Airport Extreme base station.

 

[SkyBell]

Hehe, yeah, almost forgot about that. I don't think it matches too well either but at least the top of the mini doesn't look like cheap white plastic.

But it does FEEL like it.

 

[netdog]

Gee, this is really interesting. Keep it up for sure.

 

[wakerider017]

Everyone is talking about possible or not possible limitations of the wireless through put caused by Gigabit Ethernet not beeing included in the new Airport extreme. However, there is a second place where it might be really missing:

One of the nice features of the new Airport Extreme it the USB port, where an external HD can be connected. If the USB port is 2.0, which I didn't see mentioned on the Apple page, but it is almost certainly the case, then this has a bandwidth of up to 480 Mbits/s. Via Gigabit Ethernet that could be fully saturated, but with 100Mbit ethernet this is far from being the case.

Ok, the Airport Express base station is primarily a wireless networking product, but then again it is the only switch-like networking product Apple is selling. Considering that Apple even includes Gigabit ethernet in its cheapest computer, the mini, it is a bit surprising that they do not include it in the Airport Extreme base station.

True, but people have been reporting VERY VERY slow throughput speeds with external HDD's hooked up to the APX. (Doesn't matter if it is connected through ethernet, 802.11g or 802.11n) I am talking about 16mbps (2MBPS) or LESS. Hopefully Apple gets this worked out.

I really liked this feature about the APX. Even better would be to hook up a USB hub to the APX and hook up several USB devices. (If that is possible)

 

[aristobrat]

Even better would be to hook up a USB hub to the APX and hook up several USB devices. (If that is possible)

It is possible.

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/sharing.html

Just connect a USB hub to AirPort Extreme and attach your devices to the hub. Share both a printer and a hard drive, multiple printers, or multiple hard drives.

 

[wakerider017]

It is possible.

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/sharing.html

Neato.

Now Apple needs to figure out what is up with the extremely slow throughput with external USB devices hooked up to the APX.

 

[aristobrat]

Yeah, that we definitely agree on.

 

[nateDEEZY]

I'm having a bit of trouble reading/calculating this information to figure out throughput.. Well actually I have no idea.

This is using a linksys WRT350N + Usb Hard drive connected wirelessly to my iMac, and also Link Speed is only showing 130 Mb...

Meh, I'm not sure if any of this is good, decent or bad... help?

 

[aristobrat]

Do you have any 802.11b/g devices on your network?

When I had my new Extreme setup to allow b/g devices, the connection rate (link speed) was 144Mbps. When I made a 802.11n-only network (i.e. b/g devices couldn't join), the connection rate stayed at 300Mpbs.

It looks like your average rate is 1.8MB/s.
Using 802.11n on the new Extreme, mine's 9.8MB/s.

Your average rate is actually a little slower than my 802.11g (2.5MB/s), and a fair bit slower than Wakerider's 802.11g (3.5MB/s).

Were you fairly close to the access point when you did your test?

 

[danny_w]

Now Apple needs to figure out what is up with the extremely slow throughput with external USB devices hooked up to the APX.

I think what you are seeing here is really quite simple and to be expected. Ethernet file transfers are file based, whereas USB disk transfers are block based, and the processor in the base station has to do this translation. Considering that the base station probably has fairly low processing power, this is going to be a slow process. Just look at any of the consumer NAS devices on the market and you will see the same thing; the primary complaint with these devices is the very sluggish speeds that they provide.

 

[wakerider017]

I think what you are seeing here is really quite simple and to be expected. Ethernet file transfers are file based, whereas USB disk transfers are block based, and the processor in the base station has to do this translation. Considering that the base station probably has fairly low processing power, this is going to be a slow process. Just look at any of the consumer NAS devices on the market and you will see the same thing; the primary complaint with these devices is the very sluggish speeds that they provide.

Thanks for that.

If that is the case the APX external storage capabilities can not really be used for "serious" users.

I will most likely buy a WD external drive with Firewire 800 and hook that upto my iMac.

That way I will have the best of both worlds

 

[nateDEEZY]

Do you have any 802.11b/g devices on your network?

When I had my new Extreme setup to allow b/g devices, the connection rate (link speed) was 144Mbps. When I made a 802.11n-only network (i.e. b/g devices couldn't join), the connection rate stayed at 300Mpbs.

It looks like your average rate is 1.8MB/s.
Using 802.11n on the new Extreme, mine's 9.8MB/s.

Your average rate is actually a little slower than my 802.11g (2.5MB/s), and a fair bit slower than Wakerider's 802.11g (3.5MB/s).

Were you fairly close to the access point when you did your test?

Even without running any test, and n-enabled only, the max link speed i was seeing was 130mb under Network Utility... And the router was within a foot of my iMac

 

[aristobrat]

That stinks.

I'm not really sure how to troubleshoot if it's the computer or the access point that's causing the slow connection.

This speaks to Wakerider's point of not buying technology in the "pre" stage. Even though it's supposed to be a standard, interoperability between different brands isn't guaranteed.

Does the Linksys have the option of doing a n-only network on the 5ghz band? Maybe 2.4ghz around your area is crowded with other wireless networks?

 

[jamesarm97]

Speaking of linksys and junk. I have a WRT350N right here in front of my all boxed up ready to take back to bestbuy. I ordered an extreme lastnight. Their storage manager sucks. I have a dlink wireless storage and it works well, but I was treating myself to a birthday present and since my macbook pro has n I bought the WRT350N and a usb 500 gig drive. Gave me nothing but problems. Every file I tried to copy to the share gave me permission problems. Most would copy, but always gave me the error at the end. Some would not copy at all with an error -13. I even tried to unzip a file in place on the share and it have me an error -13 permission denied. Formatted 4 times. Linksys only does FAT32. It is not the mac or drive, because I can put the same drive on the dlink and it works fine. Calling the Indian tech support did not help. They just said to reformat and try again. For less money I ordered the airport extreme, will connect a hub and add all my usb drives and usb printer and gain some functionality.

The speed of the linksys on loading webpages seem slower than the wireless g I use.

- James

 

[GFLPraxis]

What is puzzling me is why Apple didn't include 2 USB ports. I am sure enough users would like to connect a printer AND a HD.

Forget that, I want a FireWire and a USB port. FireWire for my external hard drive, USB for the printer.

 

[wakerider017]

Speaking of linksys and junk. I have a WRT350N right here in front of my all boxed up ready to take back to bestbuy. I ordered an extreme lastnight. Their storage manager sucks. I have a dlink wireless storage and it works well, but I was treating myself to a birthday present and since my macbook pro has n I bought the WRT350N and a usb 500 gig drive. Gave me nothing but problems. Every file I tried to copy to the share gave me permission problems. Most would copy, but always gave me the error at the end. Some would not copy at all with an error -13. I even tried to unzip a file in place on the share and it have me an error -13 permission denied. Formatted 4 times. Linksys only does FAT32. It is not the mac or drive, because I can put the same drive on the dlink and it works fine. Calling the Indian tech support did not help. They just said to reformat and try again. For less money I ordered the airport extreme, will connect a hub and add all my usb drives and usb printer and gain some functionality.

The speed of the linksys on loading webpages seem slower than the wireless g I use.

- James

LOL at bolded comment.

Why do you need a "storage manager"? Just drag and drop. Sounds like you are more confused than the people in Bombay India

 

[aristobrat]

Why do you need a "storage manager"? Just drag and drop. Sounds like you are more confused than the people in Bombay India

I think he's talking about the Linksys web interface you use to set the shared drive up.

 

[nateDEEZY]

Does the Linksys have the option of doing a n-only network on the 5ghz band? Maybe 2.4ghz around your area is crowded with other wireless networks?

That actually maybe the problem! Theres about 6 or so networks within range. Blah!

It does have the option of doing N-only network, but I saw no improvement under Network Utility.

And btw, the linksys web utility to share a drive is just terrible... It's going back in the box tonight, to return to best buy.

 

[jamesarm97]

LOL at bolded comment.

Why do you need a "storage manager"? Just drag and drop. Sounds like you are more confused than the people in Bombay India

The 'Storage Manager' mentioned above is just what Linksys calls their wireless router option that has a usb port for mounting and sharing a drive. It is not an actual gui manager that is used to copy files. That is done using drag / drop as you mentioned once the drive is shared remotely.

I was trying to accomplish two things, I have a dlink wireless storage (802.11g) with built in drive and usb drive. I have been using an ethernet cable in the living room, but with kids around it keeps getting tripped on. I have wireless-n in the laptop, so I decided to get a wireless-n router with storage (linksys WRT350N).

I returned it because of two issues. Once I mounted the shared usb drive on the laptop, I had nothing but random permission problems. Could copy some files, not others. Could not extract files in place on the shared drive (error -13 permission denied). I did not have these problems with the dlink and I tested the same usb drive I had bought for the linksys on the dlink and it worked fine.

The second issues was just browsing the web seem sluggish / slower than if I connected to the dlink 802.11g. It just was not worth $200 if I was going to have these problems. All linksys techsupport could say was reformat the drive, which I had already done link 5 times. The linksys (running linux) only had the option to format it FAT32. The dlink had three choices, EXT2, EXT3 and FAT32.

- James