Secure empty trash disabled in DP5?

alex_rockt

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 18, 2015
4
1
Today I saw the the menu item "Secure Empty Trash" in the Finder menu was disabled. The option to turn on "Empty Trash securely" in the Finder advanced settings is also gone.

Screen Shot 2015-07-29 at 13.01.35.png Screen Shot 2015-07-29 at 13.03.47.png

Anyone else seeing this?
 
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Ritsuka

macrumors 65816
Sep 3, 2006
1,088
557
Are you on a SSD? Secure Empty Trash is useless on a SSD, because of the way a SSD work.
 

alex_rockt

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 18, 2015
4
1
Yes, I am. I'm not using it, was just curious, because a few days ago I could click the "Secure Empty Trash" item.
 

Ritsuka

macrumors 65816
Sep 3, 2006
1,088
557
Yes probably they disable it in the last beta. The only use of that feature on a ssd is making it die sooner.
 

rockarollr

Suspended
Apr 3, 2010
152
224
USA
I am not using an SSD on my mid-2010 iMac, and I am also seeing that the 'Secure empty trash' option is now greyed-out. It is also gone from Finder/Preferences/Advanced just like the image here in the first post. I'm just using a typical 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black as my only internal hard drive.

I wonder if they're going to change the way the 'Empty trash' option works, or just have us leaving 'deleted' file remnants scattered throughout our drives from now on.
 

youradhere4222

macrumors 6502
Dec 16, 2007
320
70
I have no idea why, but Preview won't open my .JPG images anymore. Every time I try to double click an image it tries to open in Safari (but doesn't). Then I right click and try to do Open With, but Preview isn't an option, and I have to go in and select it. Still, double clicking the image starts Preview but the image never loads.
 

mlsusa

macrumors regular
Sep 17, 2012
148
11
Don't know what SSD has to do with this. Unless something intrinsic with SSD actually wipes out the data being trashed, not just freeing the blocks for use.

I have FileVault2 enabled so even though the data is there and recoverable my drive is still encrypted. So I'm not that concerned about losing functionality. But I don't see how the feature being disabled has anything to do with saving one's SSD from unneeded writes.

EDIT: So reading up, something about TRIM and wear-leveling yadda yadda yadda, recovery is difficult with how SSDs move data around. Or something like that.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,132
3,178
Don't know what SSD has to do with this. Unless something intrinsic with SSD actually wipes out the data being trashed, not just freeing the blocks for use.

I have FileVault2 enabled so even though the data is there and recoverable my drive is still encrypted. So I'm not that concerned about losing functionality. But I don't see how the feature being disabled has anything to do with saving one's SSD from unneeded writes.

EDIT: So reading up, something about TRIM and wear-leveling yadda yadda yadda, recovery is difficult with how SSDs move data around. Or something like that.
Well the point of secure erase is to make sure that the data is useless immediately and doesn’t linger until the drive finds another use for it. I am not sure whether it works differently on SSDs, but on HDDs the system is overwriting the data with useless information so that any attempt at recovering the data is difficult or impossible. On SSDs this would mean: additional write operations.

Perhaps the fact that it is greyed out has something to do with FileVault itself? When the drive is encrypted, there is probably no need for secure erase to begin with as long as it’s on.
 

jgeezy235

macrumors newbie
Jul 31, 2015
7
2
Eastern United States
Well the point of secure erase is to make sure that the data is useless immediately and doesn’t linger until the drive finds another use for it. I am not sure whether it works differently on SSDs, but on HDDs the system is overwriting the data with useless information so that any attempt at recovering the data is difficult or impossible. On SSDs this would mean: additional write operations.

Perhaps the fact that it is greyed out has something to do with FileVault itself? When the drive is encrypted, there is probably no need for secure erase to begin with as long as it’s on.
You can open your trash folder in finder and select whatever you want to delete and right click on it and you should see this option
 
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KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,132
3,178
You can open your trash folder in finder and select whatever you want to delete and right click on it and you should see this option
That probably makes a lot more sense actually. Delete the stuff that you really want gone, but keep unnecessary writes to a minimum.
 
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benjitek

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2012
863
452
I actually reinstalled the beta, starting with release 1 thinking something went wrong because of this, as I previously had the advanced setting checked to secure-delete all the time. The function is there through beta 4, but disappears in 5 -- I'll bet it returns in beta 6. There's no mention of it in the release notes, if it were a permanent change it would probably have been documented.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,132
3,178
It’s gone from the file menu now as well (public beta 4). The “delete immediately...” option (above) seems to be the only way from now on.
Screen Shot 2015-08-04 at 20.09.52.png
 

msephton

macrumors 6502
Jan 6, 2004
321
142
Cornwall, UK
Interestingly if you tap Option key when viewing the finder file menu Empty Trash gets the symbols next to it but I cannot see any alternative behaviour if I choose it with the option key held down.

Delete Immediately is useful. It's in the Finder File menu but not in the context menu. Unless you're in Trash (which you can now sort by Volume!)
 
Last edited:

scottburke

macrumors newbie
Oct 12, 2015
1
0
Hi, Apple explains that such a decision was made because the Secure Empty Trash tool may not securely delete files that are placed in the Trash. The simple Empty Trash option cannot completely erase files, they keep residing on the hard drive and will be overwritten only when a Mac needs additional free space.
Though you still have options of how to securely empty trash in El Capitan such as using third party software or enabling FileVault, check out the article here: http://mac-how-to.wonderhowto.com/how-to/securely-empty-trash-el-capitan-0165175/
 
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