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Selling iPhone on eBay/Fraud

dannster

dannster

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 10, 2008
133
0
London, UK
Hi guys,

I just thought I'd ask for a bit of advice on selling on eBay, after it appears I've become a victim of fraud!

I sold an iPhone 5S 64GB on eBay, received the money through PayPal and sent the phone to the PayPal 'Confirmed' address which was in Peterborough. I'm not too far away in Cambridge, so it wasn't to Nigeria or anywhere where I would have been suspicious.

I sent it by Royal Mail Special Delivery, so I have a tracking number and can see online that it was delivered successfully and can see the signature. I also have the paper receipts from the Post Office.

This was a couple of weeks ago. This morning, I received an email from PayPal notifying me that the buyer has filed a chargeback through their credit card, claiming it was an unauthorised payment.

I've sent PayPal the tracking number and scans of the receipts, but in the meantime they've placed a hold on the money in my PayPal account :(

I got ripped off once before and at the time I didn't cover myself, so this time around even though I bought the iPhone to sell I thought I'd get it insured just incase this happened. So if PayPal don't refund me the money then I can make a claim through my insurance.

I have an email receipt from Apple, but I sent the paper till receipt with the iPhone so it will show my name on there, email and some of my card details - can they use those details?!

Luckily, on the email receipt it shows the IMEI and serial number - will me blocking the iPhone actually block it? Or do the fraudsters have a way around this?

Any advice would help immensely!

Thanks,
Danny :)
 
Since you have signature confirmation that it was delivered and received by the buyer paypal will cover you and give your money back. I've had this happen a few times before.
 
dannster said:
Hi guys,

I just thought I'd ask for a bit of advice on selling on eBay, after it appears I've become a victim of fraud!

I sold an iPhone 5S 64GB on eBay, received the money through PayPal and sent the phone to the PayPal 'Confirmed' address which was in Peterborough. I'm not too far away in Cambridge, so it wasn't to Nigeria or anywhere where I would have been suspicious.

I sent it by Royal Mail Special Delivery, so I have a tracking number and can see online that it was delivered successfully and can see the signature. I also have the paper receipts from the Post Office.

This was a couple of weeks ago. This morning, I received an email from PayPal notifying me that the buyer has filed a chargeback through their credit card, claiming it was an unauthorised payment.

I've sent PayPal the tracking number and scans of the receipts, but in the meantime they've placed a hold on the money in my PayPal account :(

I got ripped off once before and at the time I didn't cover myself, so this time around even though I bought the iPhone to sell I thought I'd get it insured just incase this happened. So if PayPal don't refund me the money then I can make a claim through my insurance.

I have an email receipt from Apple, but I sent the paper till receipt with the iPhone so it will show my name on there, email and some of my card details - can they use those details?!

Luckily, on the email receipt it shows the IMEI and serial number - will me blocking the iPhone actually block it? Or do the fraudsters have a way around this?

Any advice would help immensely!

Thanks,
Danny :)
Click to expand...

If you have the tracking number to the confirmed address then the chargeback will fail and you will get your money. I would report this person to the police for fraud while you're at it though. This is clearly a fraudulent business practice. I would also call their credit card company and ask them to cancel the person's credit card for committing fraud.
 
I had this before and the police just referred me to a website. They don't have the resources to investigate every claim apparently! Even though I had the name, phone number, address and proof of delivery. Mind blowing!

----------

And thanks guys - I've submitted all the info to PayPal. Obviously now really nervous!
 
What insurance would you make a claim on? I just want to be clear on that point.


You have sold an iPhone to a buyer who paid using a PayPal account and you shipped the iPhone to the buyer using the PayPal verified address? You have all backup? I honestly would be shocked if this didn't go your way. Even if someone got into my account, bought a phone and had it shipped to my only PP verified address, I would be pretty hard pressed to prove that the charge was unauthorized since the item was shipped to my own address. Now, if you shipped it to another address, then there is some muddy water there and I'd be nervous.

In this case, I feel as though you were a model seller. Shipped within your home country, PP verified address, tracking, kept receipts, know the IMEI #, etc.

Kudos to you for doing what you had to do. I certainly hope this is just a hiccup because someone clearly had buyer's remorse.

----------
Radiating said:
If you have the tracking number to the confirmed address then the chargeback will fail and you will get your money. I would report this person to the police for fraud while you're at it though. This is clearly a fraudulent business practice. I would also call their credit card company and ask them to cancel the person's credit card for committing fraud.
Click to expand...

Whoa there tiger. Since you're on the subject of fraud then hopefully you know full well that there is no scenario where a random person can call any credit card company and have them cancel a credit card for alleged fraud (or even confirmed fraud). You don't get to rule with an iron fist when it comes to a credit card company and a card you do not possess.

I would agree that if the buyer filed a charge back after receiving the phone then they did indeed attempt to commit fraud. I would look into what needs to be done to report them for the attempt but I don't expect much to come from it since the seller wasn't damaged (hopefully).

I do wonder if it may have been a kid who bought the phone and mom and dad found out and filed the chargeback without thinking about the fact that the kid had the phone. Funnier things could have happened.
 
GoCubsGo said:
What insurance would you make a claim on? I just want to be clear on that point.


You have sold an iPhone to a buyer who paid using a PayPal account and you shipped the iPhone to the buyer using the PayPal verified address? You have all backup? I honestly would be shocked if this didn't go your way. Even if someone got into my account, bought a phone and had it shipped to my only PP verified address, I would be pretty hard pressed to prove that the charge was unauthorized since the item was shipped to my own address. Now, if you shipped it to another address, then there is some muddy water there and I'd be nervous.

In this case, I feel as though you were a model seller. Shipped within your home country, PP verified address, tracking, kept receipts, know the IMEI #, etc.

Kudos to you for doing what you had to do. I certainly hope this is just a hiccup because someone clearly had buyer's remorse.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It sounds like the OP has more than covered himself from fraudulent claims. Unfortunately, this is just another example of why most people shouldn't bother with selling their iPhones on eBay anymore. iPhones are quickly becoming the hottest item for thieves and fraudsters. Even if the OP gets the funds released from PayPal, the hassle of having to deal with the whole ordeal is just not worth it in my opinion.

EDIT: I should probably mention that I've sold numerous Apple products on eBay in the past. iPhones, iPads, and Macs as well. I consider myself very fortunate that I haven't had to deal with dishonest buyers, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. If you absolutely need to sell on eBay, then make sure you utilize what's called "buyer requirements" on your listing. It should be on the 2nd or last page of the auction setup process. You should check off items such as "no registered PayPal account in my country," negative feedback within 12 months, etc, etc.
 
Last edited:
What would happen if the buyer said that there was no phone in the package they received? What if the seller actually did not put an iphone in the box? How could either the buyer or seller prove otherwise?
 
rlb4 said:
What would happen if the buyer said that there was no phone in the package they received? What if the seller actually did not put an iphone in the box? How could either the buyer or seller prove otherwise?
Click to expand...

Sounds like he went to the post office and had it mailed. They would have weighed it.
 
GoCubsGo said:
Sounds like he went to the post office and had it mailed. They would have weighed it.
Click to expand...

Right. But what is to prevent a seller from sending just a box of similar weight or from a buyer from claiming that? I am just trying to think of every worst case scenario. How could either be proved?
 
rlb4 said:
Right. But what is to prevent a seller from sending just a box of similar weight or from a buyer from claiming that? I am just trying to think of every worst case scenario. How could either be proved?
Click to expand...

The buyer is claiming unauthorized payment from their CC. That is what OP's case will be judged by. I understand where you are coming from but buyer has to claim such a senario in their case.

OP

You did everything a seller could do to protect themselves. You have a legit case with Paypal and from what you posted can prove your case.

You received the notice from Paypal due to a charge-back for an unauthorized payment on their CC. With everything you have done, I can not see how Paypal will not agree to your case.

Another question though, who signed for the package? Was it the card holder, buyer or someone other than them? Might help you even more if you provide Paypal with that info. You stated you could see their signature.

I understand you are nervous, but just continue to do your due diligence of supplying info to Paypal and I think it will work out for you in the end.
 
rlb4 said:
Right. But what is to prevent a seller from sending just a box of similar weight or from a buyer from claiming that? I am just trying to think of every worst case scenario. How could either be proved?
Click to expand...

Good point. I've heard of sellers having to refund (or PayPal withdrawing the funds) a buyer based on the buyer claiming that either the item wasn't as described or they received a different item altogether. eBay/PayPal seem to protect the buyer in a majority of cases, regardless of the sellers' performance history. The worst case I've heard of was a guy who sold a car on eBay and after delivery of the car w/ signed title, the buyer initiated a dispute and PayPal refunded the buyer over $8,000.

You have to keep in mind that at least in the U.S., PayPal is not a regulated financial intermediary. They can seize your PayPal funds, withdrawal them from your bank account months later, or hold them indefinitely. There's a good reason why they're called "PreyPal" these days lol.
 
Radiating said:
If you have the tracking number to the confirmed address then the chargeback will fail and you will get your money. I would report this person to the police for fraud while you're at it though. This is clearly a fraudulent business practice. I would also call their credit card company and ask them to cancel the person's credit card for committing fraud.
Click to expand...

LOL, you can't call someone's credit card and ask them to cancel their card. That's funny.... :rolleyes:
 
firedept said:
The buyer is claiming unauthorized payment from their CC. That is what OP's case will be judged by. I understand where you are coming from but buyer has to claim such a senario in their case.
Click to expand...

Yes. I should have been more clear. I was just asking about if that scenario happened.

applegeek25 said:
Good point. I've heard of sellers having to refund (or PayPal withdrawing the funds) a buyer based on the buyer claiming that either the item wasn't as described or they received a different item altogether. eBay/PayPal seem to protect the buyer in a majority of cases, regardless of the sellers' performance history. The worst case I've heard of was a guy who sold a car on eBay and after delivery of the car w/ signed title, the buyer initiated a dispute and PayPal refunded the buyer over $8,000.

You have to keep in mind that at least in the U.S., PayPal is not a regulated financial intermediary. They can seize your PayPal funds, withdrawal them from your bank account months later, or hold them indefinitely. There's a good reason why they're called "PreyPal" these days lol.
Click to expand...

So how can a seller keep this from happening? How is it possible to prove they actually sent the item?
 
I know too many people who have done EVERYTHING they were supposed to do and still got screwed in the end. Best practice is to avoid using eBay and avoid Paypal. It's the only 100% certain to avoid being ripped off.
 
So what is the safest way to sell a cell phone so one does not get screwed?
 
If the buyer makes a false claim can't the seller report the IMEI as stolen and then the phone will be essentially useless?
 
rlb4 said:
So how can a seller keep this from happening? How is it possible to prove they actually sent the item?
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's not possible. :( When you mail an item (doesn't matter what it is), you are taking on a huge risk/liability if a financial transaction is tied to it. The difference between the average eBay seller and a huge e-retailer like Amazon, is that Amazon has more resources at its disposal to fight with a credit card issuer on fraudulent transactions. Additionally, the card issuers are regulated institutions. "PreyPal" isn't.

When you have to file a complaint with your state's Attorney General in order to get your PayPal funds released, you know to stay away from their business.
 
phpmaven said:
Cash in person is the only way to truly avoid being ripped off. Even then, somebody could clout you on the nut and run off with your phone. #
Click to expand...

LOL so true. The whole concept of an eBay auction doesn't make sense in the first place. Realistically, what is eBay? A glorified web application with a countdown ticker and payment gateway. That's it. They don't handle the auction on your behalf nor verify that the item listed is legitimate. But boy are they willing to take a percentage of your proceeds. eBay should have you mail the item to them or have you take it to a certified individual locally who will vouch for it. Once the auction ends, eBay or the locally designated person should be in charge of mailing the item to the buyer...not the seller.
 
applegeek25 said:
eBay should have you mail the item to them or have you take it to a certified individual locally who will vouch for it. Once the auction ends, eBay or the locally designated person should be in charge of mailing the item to the buyer...not the seller.
Click to expand...

They're improving on that aspect with the Global Shipping Program, but I haven't tried it. Maybe I'll get to test it this week.
 
i don't know about Paypal's rules in the UK, but in the USA for something like an iphone you need to send it with signature required and not just a tracking #
 
applegeek25 said:
Good point. I've heard of sellers having to refund (or PayPal withdrawing the funds) a buyer based on the buyer claiming that either the item wasn't as described or they received a different item altogether. eBay/PayPal seem to protect the buyer in a majority of cases, regardless of the sellers' performance history. The worst case I've heard of was a guy who sold a car on eBay and after delivery of the car w/ signed title, the buyer initiated a dispute and PayPal refunded the buyer over $8,000.

You have to keep in mind that at least in the U.S., PayPal is not a regulated financial intermediary. They can seize your PayPal funds, withdrawal them from your bank account months later, or hold them indefinitely. There's a good reason why they're called "PreyPal" these days lol.
Click to expand...

That would suck. But that is where you use an escrow service to complete the sale. Have used them and are much better than direct sale through Paypal. Especially with large cash sales.
 
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