Sending back my rMBP for poor performance

[jedolley]

Personally I find it hard to believe those that claim they see no lag in the UI with their rMBP, even with the latest OS X update and after resetting the SMC. Case in point.

Switching to desktops using the swipe or ctrl + left or right arrow = smooth
But put one application in desktop 1 and another application in desktop 2. Now cmd tab between them = jerky

I've the dock set to autohide. When I click on applications it's jerky. If I click again immediately afterwards, then it's smooth.

This is on the 2.6 GHz model and using the Nvidia 650M. Jerky scrolling is still a problem in both Chrome and Safari, but not as bad as it was back in Lion.

Believe what you want, but I see no UI lag with my rMBP and I usually run 2-3 desktops.

As I mentioned in another thread... I can't explain it and there doesn't appear to be any technical proof to suggest it, but it appears that rMBPs are not created equally even when they are supposed to have the same specs.

 

[rmbpuser]

guys little help please ive always wondered if this is what you meant by laggy and choppy transitions i took a video just now of what my rmbp is doing is this supposed to be that way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZTKZPlOsg0

 

[stevelam]

guys little help please ive always wondered if this is what you meant by laggy and choppy transitions i took a video just now of what my rmbp is doing is this supposed to be that way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZTKZPlOsg0

you can't tell a thing from this poor quality video.

 

[Pentad]

I have some thoughts on the discussions here that I would like to share.

1. I was pretty unhappy with the MBPr when it first came out but I have really become a convert. My MBPr has been a workhorse since I received it and I feel it is probably the best workstation I have ever used.

2. If you look at my attachment you will see I really use my MBPr for work. This is a typical day of usage for me app wise. I am currently doing a lot of development work and using two VMs (Parallels and VMWare at the same time).

3. I think there is a big difference between lag and stutter. My MBPr does stutter from time to time when I am swapping between spaces/mission control. This has gotten much better since the MBPr launch and I don't really notice it. Given the apps that I'm using, the memory I'm consuming, and the data being read/written, I find this all to be within acceptable range. Again, I find the MBPr to be a real workhorse of a workstation.

I have not seen any Lag since 10.8.0 and even then that was a bit rare.

4. Drivers, drivers, drivers... I also like to play games via boot camp from time to time. Skyrim, Rage, etc... I have found the graphics via boot camp to have improved with each revision of the Nvidia driver updates. Much more than I thought a driver would give me.

I believe that Apple's OS X driver is quite old at this point. I believe they are still using a driver from early summer (maybe). To add some credit to this claim, Aspyr's COD:BO port also talks about driver features that they are waiting for before they recommend any MBPr owner purchase their game. (It is on their site if you do not believe me)

I suspect that Apple might have been waiting for Nvidia to certify their latest driver (30x-ish) before updating the driver on OS X. I can't tell you how much better I think OS X would become if it received graphic driver updates the way Windows does. I think it would solve many problems...

5. I also believe that those of us who use the MBPr day in and out just get used to any slight stuttering that may occur so it doesn't stand out. I think the performance far outweighs this issue.

Note:

My first MBPr had a Samsung screen but a chip next to the trackpad so I sent it back. The one I have now is perfect with an LG screen. Having had both I kinda lean towards the LG screen as I think the color is much richer but it could also be me. Also, no bad pixels and no ir issues.

I make my living off my MBPr so I wouldn't give you bad advice here...

-P

 

[rmbpuser]

you can't tell a thing from this poor quality video.

there is a cog-wheel on the right where u can change the quality mate

 

[theSeb]

Well, I must say that using a raised stand makes a huge difference. I am using a Just Mobile Xtand Pro and I am encoding a BR mkv right now. THe right fan is at 5500 RPM and the left fan is at 59xx RPM. CPU hovering between 80 and 97%, but the CPU temperatures are staying at around 50 degrees Celsius. Colour me impressed.

 

[mankar4]

Well, I must say that using a raised stand makes a huge difference. I am using a Just Mobile Xtand Pro and I am encoding a BR mkv right now. THe right fan is at 5500 RPM and the left fan is at 59xx RPM. CPU hovering between 80 and 97%, but the CPU temperatures are staying at around 50 degrees Celsius. Colour me impressed.

Thank you for posting this! This is exactly the type of test I had been wondering about.

 

[theSeb]

Thank you for posting this! This is exactly the type of test I had been wondering about.

No, wait. There appears to be a problem with the app I was using. I've installed two other ones to make sure. CPU cores are at between 94 and 99 degrees Celsius.

 

[mankar4]

No, wait. There appears to be a problem with the app I was using. I've installed two other ones to make sure. CPU cores are at between 94 and 99 degrees Celsius.

Hahaha, thanks for the update. The previous numbers were... how would he put it... magical.

 

[theSeb]

Hahaha, thanks for the update. The previous numbers were... how would he put it... magical.

Indeed. That's why I had to double check because I was struggling to believe it.

 

[epigenome]

Personally I find it hard to believe those that claim they see no lag in the UI with their rMBP, even with the latest OS X update and after resetting the SMC. Case in point.

Switching to desktops using the swipe or ctrl + left or right arrow = smooth
But put one application in desktop 1 and another application in desktop 2. Now cmd tab between them = jerky

I've the dock set to autohide. When I click on applications it's jerky. If I click again immediately afterwards, then it's smooth.

This is on the 2.6 GHz model and using the Nvidia 650M. Jerky scrolling is still a problem in both Chrome and Safari, but not as bad as it was back in Lion.

I have the same processor... I frequently use multiple desktops - have never noticed the problems you mentioned. I specifically tried to replicate each case as you stated and could not. I do a lot of graphics and video intensive work.

I get occasional strangeness in Safari - mostly in areas with text. But, it's fairly rare and unobtrusive... and I'm pretty optimistic it will be resolved in the not to distant future.

 

[theSeb]

I have the same processor... I frequently use multiple desktops - have never noticed the problems you mentioned. I specifically tried to replicate each case as you stated and could not. I do a lot of graphics and video intensive work.

I get occasional strangeness in Safari - mostly in areas with text. But, it's fairly rare and unobtrusive... and I'm pretty optimistic it will be resolved in the not to distant future.

I am doing it right now and it's doing what I mentioned. I have Evernote on the one desktop and Chrome on the other. Cmd tabbing between produces a noticeable lag. If I put the rMBP into clamshell mode and run it on the 24" 1920x1200 monitor, then everything is smooth as butter.

Edit: After further testing the issue appears to be related directly to Evernote and what it does in "retina" and scaled mode when Evernote is on the rMBP's screen. Cmd+tab between any other apps on different desktops does not produce this. I apologise to my rMBP and any other rMBPs that I may have offended. Initially I thought 10.8.2 had introduced this because I had never seen anything this bad before.

 

[0x000000]

guys little help please ive always wondered if this is what you meant by laggy and choppy transitions i took a video just now of what my rmbp is doing is this supposed to be that way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZTKZPlOsg0

I see nothing. I watched it several times and don't see anything that's out of the ordinary.

To make clear what we're talking about:

Lagging would mean that it lags behind user input, which cannot be seen because we don't see your input. Computers aren't instant, though: they need to, yes, compute things and depending on what it is, that may take time. Lag may occasionally happen, and I see it as something completely normal.

Choppy would mean that there's breaks in the animation; either the animation skips a part or it stops and resumes after a short break. But here you have a very clean transition of coordinates and transparency, with no apparent stuttering at all.

The only thing that was "weird" was that the window moves and then jumps up a bit. But that's Apple's lazy programming and nothing that's unintended.

 

[jedolley]

I am doing it right now and it's doing what I mentioned. I have Evernote on the one desktop and Chrome on the other. Cmd tabbing between produces a noticeable lag. If I put the rMBP into clamshell mode and run it on the 24" 1920x1200 monitor, then everything is smooth as butter.

Edit: After further testing the issue appears to be related directly to Evernote and what it does in "retina" and scaled mode when Evernote is on the rMBP's screen. Cmd+tab between any other apps on different desktops does not produce this. I apologise to my rMBP and any other rMBPs that I may have offended. Initially I thought 10.8.2 had introduced this because I had never seen anything this bad before.

Bob (my rMBP) accepts your apology.

I'm glad you were able to figure out the root of your problem. There are so many conflicting reports that sometimes I wonder if the rMBP is getting too much blame. I'm not saying that the issues some people are having aren't genuine, but as in your situation the issue was with the app and not the rMBP itself.

 

[rmbpuser]

I see nothing. I watched it several times and don't see anything that's out of the ordinary.

To make clear what we're talking about:

Lagging would mean that it lags behind user input, which cannot be seen because we don't see your input. Computers aren't instant, though: they need to, yes, compute things and depending on what it is, that may take time. Lag may occasionally happen, and I see it as something completely normal.

Choppy would mean that there's breaks in the animation; either the animation skips a part or it stops and resumes after a short break. But here you have a very clean transition of coordinates and transparency, with no apparent stuttering at all.

The only thing that was "weird" was that the window moves and then jumps up a bit. But that's Apple's lazy programming and nothing that's unintended.

I see. Thank you for the clarification. Seems like I thought that the moving and jumping up after the transition/resizing was "choppy", glad to know it isnt.

 

[AirThis]

I've tried to reproduce the UI lag people mention , but am unable to do so. I've tried to run on battery, use hd 4000, multiple desktops, higher res, etc., but still no UI lag. I've even FileVaulted my machine. The only thing I've noticed is that from time to time the swipe backwards between desktops seems to have a missing frame or two. It's not lagging but just looks really odd (25% of screen is black during the swipe). Otherwise all animations (genie effect, etc.) look fine to me. I define a lag as something which slows down my progression during a task. But that's clearly not what I'm seeing. And the animations (genie effect) seem pleasing as well. Maybe I'm just too mellow and easygoing.

 

[Forkjulle]

I think the term should be "choppy" and not "lag".

What I experience is choppy performance. Animations are jerky and not smooth. And while it sounds anal, a machine that costs this much should be performing at its best. It should even make me coffee.

 

[theSeb]

I think the term should be "choppy" and not "lag".

What I experience is choppy performance. Animations are jerky and not smooth. And while it sounds anal, a machine that costs this much should be performing at its best. It should even make me coffee.

Yes, choppy is the best word to describe this.

 

[GermanyChris]

I have some thoughts on the discussions here that I would like to share.

1. I was pretty unhappy with the MBPr when it first came out but I have really become a convert. My MBPr has been a workhorse since I received it and I feel it is probably the best workstation I have ever used.

2. If you look at my attachment you will see I really use my MBPr for work. This is a typical day of usage for me app wise. I am currently doing a lot of development work and using two VMs (Parallels and VMWare at the same time).

3. I think there is a big difference between lag and stutter. My MBPr does stutter from time to time when I am swapping between spaces/mission control. This has gotten much better since the MBPr launch and I don't really notice it. Given the apps that I'm using, the memory I'm consuming, and the data being read/written, I find this all to be within acceptable range. Again, I find the MBPr to be a real workhorse of a workstation.

I have not seen any Lag since 10.8.0 and even then that was a bit rare.

4. Drivers, drivers, drivers... I also like to play games via boot camp from time to time. Skyrim, Rage, etc... I have found the graphics via boot camp to have improved with each revision of the Nvidia driver updates. Much more than I thought a driver would give me.

I believe that Apple's OS X driver is quite old at this point. I believe they are still using a driver from early summer (maybe). To add some credit to this claim, Aspyr's COD:BO port also talks about driver features that they are waiting for before they recommend any MBPr owner purchase their game. (It is on their site if you do not believe me)

I suspect that Apple might have been waiting for Nvidia to certify their latest driver (30x-ish) before updating the driver on OS X. I can't tell you how much better I think OS X would become if it received graphic driver updates the way Windows does. I think it would solve many problems...

5. I also believe that those of us who use the MBPr day in and out just get used to any slight stuttering that may occur so it doesn't stand out. I think the performance far outweighs this issue.

Note:

My first MBPr had a Samsung screen but a chip next to the trackpad so I sent it back. The one I have now is perfect with an LG screen. Having had both I kinda lean towards the LG screen as I think the color is much richer but it could also be me. Also, no bad pixels and no ir issues.

I make my living off my MBPr so I wouldn't give you bad advice here...

-P

All the pic shows is you're using 13GB of RAM at that screen shot..

 

[theSeb]

Thanks to fake SMC I am finally able to monitor real time CPU frequencies. I'll be posting some interesting facts later today or tomorrow.

Edit: Darn, I can only get it to work on my MBA, but I can't get it to work on the rMBP. It's still very interesting to see the throttling.

 

[AirThis]

I think the term should be "choppy" and not "lag".

What I experience is choppy performance. Animations are jerky and not smooth. And while it sounds anal, a machine that costs this much should be performing at its best. It should even make me coffee.

I took a very close look at the desktop switching today (next to a cMBP) and I think I see what you're referring to. When you swipe towards the dashboard (or another dekstop) the screen panes over in a succession of micro-increments instead of being 100% seamless. To be honest, it's something I never would have noticed. However, I know that when something like that bugs you it can quickly become a big distraction. That sort of thing has happened to me a couple of times in the past with other computers. I think you made the right choice in sending it back.

 

[foodle]

But the performance is jerky and not smooth. Switching between desktops is jerky and even opening Finder is often not smooth.

This should not be the case. There is an issue with your software, your hardware, or the interaction between the two.

When I got the laptop, the Backspace key got stuck after it was pressed, though it seems a bit better now. And the Caps Lock key doesn't turn on when I press it. I have to hit it hard. It's moody and sometimes works.

Again, this should not be the case. A computer is a machine, not an living creature. It cannot be "moody". It functions deterministically. Because it is a highly complex machine, there are a lot of inputs/factors that influence its operation, and thus it can seem non-deterministic if the issue is complex.

If the keyboard is not working properly, then there is likely a hardware fault (bad keyboard switches, bad cable, bad connector) that needs to be fixed. This is covered under the standard Apple warranty. Take it in and they will replace your keyboard.

I've looked at the Airs, thinking that they're better in performance,

Huh? The Airs will always be worse performance. Slower ULV CPU, fewer cores, less memory, etc. If you want performance the Air is not what you want.

The new rMBPs are benchmarking higher than all previous MBP laptops. If yours is not giving you adequate performance, there is a problem with your particular instance of the hardware, software, or HW+SW interaction.

 

[Forkjulle]

I've not taken back my rMBP. Instead, I've tried working through the issues.

It seems that, after some testing and reading online, rMBPs will always have some "jerky" performance hassles.

But here's the strange part.

I've been testing the resolution on 1900 (instead of the "Best For Retina" option) and, in some instances, the performance is SMOOTHER. Not all instances, but certainly in enough to be noticeable.

Which makes me believe that the hardware is able to handle the display.

Still, I'm happy with the machine, by and large, bar the jerky animations here and there. After seeing other screens, I can't go back to lower resolutions.