"Serenity" movie discussion - spoiler warning!

[efoto]

I just saw it last night having never seen the series and I'll say it was pretty good but not excellent. I respect it for all that it accomplished and having you all say that it follows the series well and everything makes it that much better, but since I have not seen the series yet the movie is simply good but not great.

I thought the storyline was good and definitely leaves enough for a sequel and perhaps rounded out by trilogy which would be sweet. I am usually a stiff critique of movies because I see almost all of them, but overall Serenity was good and highly entertaining. I have already recommended it to several co-workers and will be passing the recommendations on to friends and others soon enough.

A quick question; The FireFly series has been on how long? I have heard mention of the DVDs already so I am assuming some time.... Secondly, does the entire FireFly series precede the movie?

 

[huck500]

Serenity

But both deaths serve a purpose.

I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. Wash's death just ruined the movie for me. If the actor didn't want to return, fine. I hope that was the deal. Killing off my favorite character, turning Zoe into nothing but an emotionless soldier, and taking away one of the only married, happy couples in sci-fi just angered me, enough that I really don't want to watch the couple of episodes I haven't seen. What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?

 

[clayj]

A quick question; The FireFly series has been on how long? I have heard mention of the DVDs already so I am assuming some time.... Secondly, does the entire FireFly series precede the movie?

One season, 15 episodes (about 4 of which were never aired on TV)... the series was badly hampered by having its episodes aired out of sequence (the pilot wasn't aired until about 6 or 7 other "later" episodes had already been aired), and it was given the axe midway through the first season.

And yes, the entire series precedes the movie.

 

[joepunk]

I wish that "they" kept the original theme musik from the TV show and incorporated it somehow into the movie. Possibly like during the credits or during the beginning.

I liked how Joss sort of kept the beginning like a TV show by showing an opener and then going to the open credits.

Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).

Overall, I enjoyed it tremendously. Will probably try to go and see it for a second time.

 

[Guitarius]

Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).

Yeah, but that was made up by the abundancy of Reavers. I binge watched the whole series on the friday and saturday, and was bitching on the ride to the theatre about how they underdeveloped the whole Reaver thing.

I agree that it would have been cooler with those guys there somehow, but I loved how they tied in the Reavers.

 

[stcanard]

I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. Wash's death just ruined the movie for me ... What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...

 

[Guitarius]

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...

I agree. A wonderful, and greatly dramatic choice.

 

[huck500]

It's purpose was to make the audience believe that there was a real chance that everyone was going to die.

Without it the final scenes would have been far less tense/suspensful because the feel of the movie up until then gave you the feeling that you knew everyone would live happily ever after. As soon as the stake went through him you were no longer certain...

After reading about the studio's hope to make this a franchise, all his death did was make me think about how the possible future movies would suck without him.

Edit: Not suck, but not be as good.

 

[nagromme]

I wish that "they" kept the original theme musik from the TV show and incorporated it somehow into the movie. Possibly like during the credits or during the beginning.
...
Kind of missed the men in blue (those guys who wore blue gloves).

Re music: the Ballad of Serenity WAS there... an instrumental version ended the credits. Nice touch. (Although I was hoping the credits would get a full, new, vocal version.)

Re "2x2, Hands of Blue"--I agree. But you can only get so much in a movie. (They could have had the surgeons wearing blue gloves, though, or the Operative radioing someone in blue gloves.) As for "Blue Sun"... I guess only the most dedicated trivia buffs will ever know why River stabbed Jayne The connection to the hands may never be known. (Unless that wave from Miranda had a Blue Sun logo in it... I choose to think Blue Sun developed Miranda's drug.)

I absolutely disagree...Book's death did serve a purpose, to get Mal on the right track, at least to me. ... Killing off my favorite character, turning Zoe into nothing but an emotionless soldier, and taking away one of the only married, happy couples in sci-fi just angered me, enough that I really don't want to watch the couple of episodes I haven't seen. What purpose did it serve, plot-wise?

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wish Wash was still around. Book too, but especially Wash. I think the movie COULD have been done with one or both of them living.

But the purpose Wash's death served was to make the audience lose hope. It was a nasty, senseless, horrible shock, coming right on the heels of watching the beloved ship ripped to shreds. After that, the other characters started to fall one by one--and speaking for myself, I believed it very possible that many of them would never live to see another day. I thought that Mal WOULD get the signal out, but beyond that I didn't expect a happy ending. Even River's death at the hands of the Reavers wouldn't have surprised me. Heck, I even thought Mal himself might be dead for a while there. Yet the movie DID have a basically happy ending. Everyone else lived after all. Surprise!

Which is why Wash couldn't have been "badly injured but found miraculously alive later on." Too many other characters had just been through near-death injury. (Kaylee and Simon and Mal.)

It was like the last few episodes of Buffy season 5. A real sense of impending doom, followed by... well, in that instance, actual doom. But my point is, it's not easy to make an audience BELIEVE that a whole batch of beloved characters is going to lose--or even die. In that sense, Wash's death may have been mostly FOR the Firefly fans: they are the ones who most expect their crew to make it.

So painful as it is (and if you feel that pain, it's a mark of good drama), I will mourn Wash's death but not let it ruin the movie. And definitely don't let it ruin the rest of the Firefly DVDs--they're fun

(BTW, when I posted about "both deaths," I meant that both Tara's and Wash's deaths served a purpose... but you're right, Book's does as well. Tara is O/T... speaking of breaking up rare fictional couples.)

 

[stcanard]

(BTW, when I posted about "both deaths," I meant that both Tara's and Wash's deaths served a purpose... but you're right, Book's does as well. Tara is O/T... speaking of breaking up rare fictional couples.)

AHH I GET IT!

It's been driving me crazy trying to figure out which character Tara was. I remembered both Book and Wash dying, but aside from some other side characters didn't remember a Tara in the movie, let alone one that had a 'significant' death.

I finally understand that we're talking Buffy not Serenity

 

[huck500]

But the purpose Wash's death served was to make the audience lose hope.

I understand the purpose, I just hate the choice of character. I know others would have hated whichever character he chose to kill off...to me, he killed the best character, the character I identified most with, and at the same time ruined the character of Zoe...to me, half of who she was was her relationship with him.

If the death made everything more exciting for most people, that's cool. It pulled me out of the movie and, at least at this point (two days later), has ruined the Firefly universe for me. I'm not being petulant about it, I just don't really care about the story without Wash and his relationship with Zoe. I hope I'm in the minority, and I hope I change my mind so I can enjoy any future movies.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I understand the purpose, I just hate the choice of character. I know others would have hated whichever character he chose to kill off...to me, he killed the best character, the character I identified most with, and at the same time ruined the character of Zoe...to me, half of who she was was her relationship with him.

If the death made everything more exciting for most people, that's cool. It pulled me out of the movie and, at least at this point (two days later), has ruined the Firefly universe for me. I'm not being petulant about it, I just don't really care about the story without Wash and his relationship with Zoe. I hope I'm in the minority, and I hope I change my mind so I can enjoy any future movies.

I think one thing you'll see happen is working the new crew out and how the survivors grow/change with the deaths. It might not be all that bad and I can't imagine there isn't a plan.

Besides, having River pilot the ship might be necessary, who knows.

D

 

[huck500]

Besides, having River pilot the ship might be necessary, who knows.

I liked that River took over piloting, actually. Not sure there will be more movies, since it underperformed this weekend...maybe the DVD sales will justify it.

To change the subject: Did anyone else think it was strange that Mal didn't make sure to kill the bad guy before he climbed onto the scaffolding over the giant pit? Especially after learning that said bad guy wore body armor earlier? I'm just sayin'...headshot please...

 

[nagromme]

Serenity is already a huge success

That was careless of Mal. Then again, a bit later he had plans OTHER than death for the Operative.

BTW, the movie didn't underperform: Joss Whedon and his fans would have loved to see this movie (with no known stars) immediately exceed expectations and open as the #1 movie overall. Instead, it opened as the #1 NEW movie, and as the #1 movie in revenue per screen (it just wasn't shown in as many theaters as Flight Plan, the #1). Also, the falloff from Friday to Sunday wasn't bad, it was good: it was less than the falloff for other movies.

Universal has said two encouraging things: 1) They have no set number target they need to meet to make sequels, and are not rushing to make that call. And 2) The opening weekend numbers are just what they predicted--not worse. Universal is happy, they are behind the movie, AND they are thinking ahead to DVD sales too.

Also, supposedly sequels tend to make more money than the originals (regardless of quality).

The success of this movie always was, and still is, expected to be a slow and steady one, fueled by word of mouth (and now some great reviews!) not by star power or a big marketing budget. In fact, I know people who have avoided seeing the movie right away BECAUSE they are so interested: they want to see it in "proper order" and are waiting to watch/rent the DVDs of Firefly first!

But it needs to get the CHANCE to have steady, prolonged sales. That means it has to stay in theaters. And THAT means the second weekend is important. Because theaters have a 2 week commitment, and then they can opt to keep a movie or not. Second weekend numbers are always lower--but how MUCH lower? If the dropoff next weekend isn't too much, then audiences are liking the movie and it will stay in theaters making money for Universal.

So we haven't won our sequels yet--but nobody realistically expected that. It would have been neat to say it was #1 and sequels are for sure, but Universal makes the decisions, and they have made no such expectations.

Two other points in Serenity's favor: 1. The movie paid for 1/4 of its cost in one weekend. That is unusually good for a sci-fi movie. And 2. This is Joss Whedon's first movie, and it came in on time and within budget. Studios like that! Not to mention, it came in within a SMALL budget--without LOOKING like it had a small budget. A very economical investment, then.

I almost hope the movie doesn't QUITE make it to sequels, and that a series returns sometime. I know, I know--we've been told a new series is impossible.

But we were also told a movie was impossible! And we got a good one that's widely liked by all audiences--and makes a great conclusion to the Firefly story even if there aren't sequels. Something to keep in mind when reviewers call Serenity sales "disappointing" just because it's only #2. (What about movies #3, 4, and 5? Failures every one?)

It's a movie that appeals to many demographics, but fits no known model. People have heard of it maybe, but aren't sure what to make of it. The TV connection may be perceived as a negative, however needlessly. So people decide to "wait and see" how it's received. Now that the great reviews are out, it's time to stop waiting and start seeing

This is a HUGE success story, not a failure. And I think it WILL get sequels, even if that decision isn't made until after the DVD is out.

To quote for the umpteenth time: "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

 

[stcanard]

I liked that River took over piloting, actually. Not sure there will be more movies, since it underperformed this weekend...maybe the DVD sales will justify it.

From what I've read, it didn't underperform, it performed right within expectations. I think everyone expects this movie to be a big repeat business / word of mouth showing, so the more interesting number is the drop off (or lack thereof) week to week. It was never going to open strong.

So I'm still hoping that it will get sequels. My wife's opinion (she never saw Firefly) was that Serenity was good, but the sequel will be great -- she could see how it was held back by the need to introduce the characters, universe, politics, and cram a whole bunch of plot into two hours. Hopefully more people will see that potential.

 

[eva01]

The entire series was word of worth and so is the movie. How did it underperform? It did very well in my opinion, because i heard from at least 10 other people that didn't know about Firefly that they were going to see Serenity.

I say that is not underperforming.

Hell i brought someone with me to the movie that had never heard of serenity or firefly before and now she is going to be borrowing the firefly series from me.

Definitely not underperforming.

Outstanding movie

 

[nagromme]

I do think sequels will be even better: Whedon will be able to "do his own thing" a little more freely the second time.

But enough about the movie industry and horrible deaths... here's my list of the most fun things in Serenity

* New Mule (was the old one destroyed? I forget.)

* "Am I talking to Miranda now?" - the look River gives to Simon.

* "Did you see us fighting?" "No..." "Trap."

* Mal telling the Buddha what he wants for "Christmas"

* "That's not incense." (It seemed like Inara was just a helpless victim. It felt wrong. I should have known.)

* "She is starting to damage my calm." (The most useful new phrase I picked up!)

* Serenity in Reaver trim

* Worst. Landing. Ever.

* River vs. Reavers

* Rebuilding and repainting - the only "down time"

 

[Xtremehkr]

The only part of the movie I think was lacking was the time where you see when the crew had the time to develop such loyalty for each other. I can see why they all appreciate each others abilities, and how they manage to work so well as a team. Plenty of emphasis was placed on how the different elements of the team strained relations between them all. I would liked to have had a few minutes here and there that showed how they relate to each other when they are not being threatened with certain doom. Given the differences and similarities that exist, even watching periods of the crew just interacting would have helped to justify how they were able to hold things together when times got rough.

Hopefully there is more of that in the sequel. Sappy as it sounds, I think that a minor plot line concerning the interesting aspects of the crews personal interactions could be explored. There were elements of that, like when the crew was watching Mal and Inayas interaction, but not enough to balance the good with the bad.

 

[eva01]

yes the look river gives Simon is awesome in that scene.

and the "Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die" from Wash.

But for my favorite quote out of movie and series it still has to be River going up to Jayne when he was not able to move due to medicine, and she said "Also, I can kill you with my brain."

 

[eva01]

The only part of the movie I think was lacking was the time where you see when the crew had the time to develop such loyalty for each other. I can see why they all appreciate each others abilities, and how they manage to work so well as a team. Plenty of emphasis was placed on how the different elements of the team strained relations between them all. I would liked to have had a few minutes here and there that showed how they relate to each other when they are not being threatened with certain doom. Given the differences and similarities that exist, even watching periods of the crew just interacting would have helped to justify how they were able to hold things together when times got rough.

Hopefully there is more of that in the sequel. Sappy as it sounds, I think that a minor plot line concerning the interesting aspects of the crews personal interactions could be explored. There were elements of that, like when the crew was watching Mal and Inayas interaction, but not enough to balance the good with the bad.

watch the series.

 

[huck500]

The entire series was word of worth and so is the movie. How did it underperform? It did very well in my opinion, because i heard from at least 10 other people that didn't know about Firefly that they were going to see Serenity.

I say that is not underperforming.

It is impressive that a (great) tv show that almost no one watched until it was on DVD made $10 million opening weekend...but I saw expectations of about $15 million from pretty reliable people. I like that the studio is behind the film, though.

I think that the theater release won't make the production costs + marketing costs back, but DVD sales will.

And since I don't want to complain any more...I loved seeing the beginnings of the crew in flashbacks. Wash's mustache was classic.

Edit: ^^^^That was in an episode, wasn't it...I watched all the shows the day before the movie and it's all running together....

But I REALLY liked Serenity disguised as a Reaver ship...THAT was in the movie, right??

 

[nagromme]

Yes, that was in the movie The flashback that WAS in the movie was Simon springing River.

The episode with the stories of how each crew member came aboard was a good one. Kaylee and Jayne had especially good entrances. And Zoe's opinion of Wash

 

[nagromme]

For people who know Firefly - my theory about Book

OK, since we may never know for sure... I have a solution for the mystery of the Shepherd. The facts:

* He has a broad knowledge of violence--weapons, pirate "nets," fistfighting, etc.

* His faith, virtue and pacifism are genuine, but he didn't always have them.

* He is familiar with a range of criminal activities.

* And he is ALSO familiar with Alliance operations--including high-level, secret ones.

* His ID card has some code that convinced Alliance personnel to give him priority medical treatment, no questions asked.

* He became a Shepherd late in life and then spent years in the Southdown Abbey before venturing out again.

* Despite his experience with violence, coming face to face with it again aboard Serenity led to a minor personal crisis.

There's only one theory I can think of that cleanly answers all of the above:

* Derria Book is not his real name.

* He was a criminal, maybe not a bad person himself, but involved with the most dangerous kinds of people. People as bad as Niska.

* Something happened to bring about a change of heart.

* Under the promise of witness protection, he became an undercover operative for the Alliance. They gave him a way out, and a way to make some restitution for the things he now regretted.

* As part of a very major Alliance crime-fighting operation, he helped do a lot of damage to the criminals he was with. He was now marked for death.

* After the undercover operations, he was put in witness protection as promised, and given a new identity. Since he had found religion, an abbey was his choice for a hiding place--and a sanctuary from the violence he wished to forget.

* Eventually he dared wander out again, hoping to spread the Word.

* His simple beliefs were challenged on board Serenity. They couldn't stay quite so simple anymore.

* His ID card identifies him as being in witness protection. Seeing that code, the Alliance personnel decided they had better treat the man and not turn him away. Either witness protection carries with it a guarantee of certain privileges, or else the Alliance officers simply feared reprisal if they made a bad call and let Book die.

* He would have liked to tell his friends his story, but feared it would only put them in danger from the same criminals he was hiding from.

What do you think?

Now, Inara's trickier... I can't think of any explanation that fits the facts of her situation. This is why we need sequels

 

[clayj]

My theory about Book is that he was once an Operative himself... something happened to him that challenged his support of the Alliance, and he came to an arrangement with the Alliance: let me go and never allow me to come to any harm, and I won't blab about the stuff that I know. Somewhere there may be a lawyer or a secret stash of his secrets, and now that he's dead, there's a chance that his secrets may come to light. (One of those "in the event of my untimely demise" type deals.)

 

[nagromme]

I like your lawyer/secrets idea I don't think being an Operative explains everything, because Book has knowledge of down-and-dirty crime (different kinds of pirate nets and how they kill the crews, for instance), not just higher-level military type knowledge. But you never know what all an Operative might get involved in. Maybe he BECAME an Operative for the undercover sting

Anyway, unexpectedly, I have solved Inara's mystery--and I'm much more sure of it than I am about Book. My Book explanation is just an educated guess, but I'm 99% sure I know Inara's secret, and it's a big one. I picked it up from clues on the DVDs, and I'm sure others have figured it out too. The facts:

* She's a respected Companion on the fast track to the top of her Guild. She has no need to travel the solar system for an income--an easier life is ready and waiting for her at the Academy (and we see that in Serenity).

* If she DID have to travel, she'd be expected to be aboard a luxury liner, not an old junker Firefly transport.

* She's not running from the Guild--she's in contact with them, follows their rules, and seems to be in good standing.

* She's not hiding--she lets herself be seen any and everywhere.

* She's accepting of criminal activity going on around her, despite her law-abiding high-class background.

* She doesn't want to get involved with Mal, despite having real feelings for him.

WARNING: Her story might well be picked up in future movies, and I don't want discussion in this thread to spoil them accidentally! I think this could be a BIG spoiler, so public replies to my theory should probably come with "FUTURE MOVIE SPOILER?" warnings.

So here's her secret, I believe--paste into http://decode.org to view:

Vanen vf grezvanyyl vyy. Fur vf geniryvat gur fbyne flfgrz rvgure sbe n punatr bs rkcrevrapr orsber fur qvrf, be va gur ubcr bs pbzvat npebff fbzr gerngzrag. Fur qbrfa'g jnag gb trg vaibyirq jvgu Zny orpnhfr fur xabjf fur vf yvxryl gb or qrnq fbba.

The clues: things on Firefly that I wouldn't have noticed if the commentary hadn't made me look for them. The commentary refused to explain Inara's mystery, but it did lead me in the right direction I think. One line from Inara in particular takes on a new meaning that can't be accidental. If you're curious, the episodes with the clues are (Decode needed): "Freravgl" and "Bhgbstnf."