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Setapp Mac App Subscription Service Expands to iOS

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
I remember one needs to purchase mindnode Mac and iOS apps separately.

Yes, that is why: you purchased rather than rented them, which was only possible separately.

They still provide that possibility as a legacy option but have indicated that it will be removed soon, just as they removed the upgrade options. They are shifting towards a subscription-only model. One subscription of $19.99 p.a. covers both platforms. Their Setapp version had to match that.
 
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Cosmosent

macrumors 65832
Apr 20, 2016
1,501
1,612
La Jolla, CA
I'm assuming these iOS apps are strictly Progressive Web Apps (i.e., NOT native iOS apps).

Otherwise, they would NOT be able to pull it off.

Can anyone confirm this ?
 

tzm41

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2014
302
831
Boston
Yes, that is why: you purchased rather than rented them, which was only possible separately.

They still provide that possibility as a legacy option but have indicated that it will be removed soon, just as they removed the upgrade options. They are shifting towards a subscription-only model. One subscription of $19.99 p.a. covers both platforms. Their Setapp version had to match that.
I meant I own a Setapp subscription to use mindnode and their website mentioned setapp subscription only unlocks the Mac version. See https://mindnode.com/article/mindnode-for-ios-setapp which has a page posted April 2019 that clearly indicates Setapp subscription doesn’t unlock iOS app.
 

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
I meant I own a Setapp subscription
Okay, so, in the context we're discussing, a Setapp subscription is different from purchasing the app.

a page posted April 2019 that clearly indicates Setapp subscription doesn’t unlock iOS app.

Okay, so, my experience was later, possibly after they changed their pricing model, or perhaps I have been using the free version of the iOS app without noticing.

None of this is particularly important. I simply hope that MacPaw will rethink this gambit. At this stage, I feel like I've spent more time on this thread than I have on the apps 😄
 
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tzm41

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2014
302
831
Boston
Okay, so, in the context we're discussing, a Setapp subscription is different from purchasing the app.



Okay, so, my experience was later, possibly after they changed their pricing model, or perhaps I have been using the free version of the iOS app without noticing.

None of this is particularly important. I simply hope that MacPaw will rethink this gambit. At this stage, I feel like I've spent more time on this thread than I have on the apps 😄
I doubt it... The general trend I see with this type of aggregation subscription services is to attract users with worthwhile perks at the beginning, then gradually increase the price and/or cut the benefits...
 
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johnsmith84

macrumors newbie
May 14, 2010
7
1
Paid articles are one thing, but it is deeply dishonest of MacRumors to describe this as Setapp "expanding" to iOS. Setapp users already had, as part of their existing subscription, access to iOS apps such as Ulysses, Paste, and Mindnode. You could also use multiple iOS devices, handy for those of us with both an iPhone and an iPad.

This was my thought when I first read the article. I pay for Setapp for access to Ulysses, which I mainly use on my iMac and iPad - but occasionally need to access on my phone. From the website it sounds like that will cost me an extra $5 a month. This price hike basically makes the service useless to me. Did Macrumors not do any homework at all when writing this article? There is no mention in the article at all of the fact that a Setapp subscription already included access to most of those iOS apps and that this is basically just an increase in the cost of the service.
 
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Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
yeah, I can’t wait till all these arbitrary BS rules come crashing down. No QR code unlocks? Come on Apple... There’s no logical reason behind this other than trying to protect their precious 30% cut....
Can I ask you a candid question :
if it bothers you so much and clearly you feel that the approach Apple takes is wrong.
Why do you not go and use other devices? (I know they exist and definitely less expensive, not half bad either) and if you do use em why do you care what Apple does?
 

Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
I don’t get the huge difference between this and the games deal that Xbox and others complained about Apple’s App Store policies. I would like to see other competing App Stores. I don’t see Apple winning this in the long run. We own the devices. If we want to install something Apple doesn’t approve of we should be able to as long as we relieve Apple of all liability. I see Apple fighting saying it will degrade the device and etc. But Apple should give on this issue or it may be forced to lose a heck of a lot more.
As I looked into Apple guidelines I saw a few different subjects that pertain to xCloud
Sadly it seems Apple does not believe that the App Store is a place for cloud based apps (not necessarily what you think)

And I believe the key difference here is that those apps are individually available on the App Store as things are before this change and while they (probably) require an account to use they are still operating on user owned device rather than a remote server
 

Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
How did this get approved by Apple, when it openly violates their guidelines for approval? The chain of command was a failure with this app.
Well this only strengthens my fear that Apple wants to lock down macOS as iOS
 

Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
I think I agree.

Let people have the options like on macOS:

Allow apps downloaded from:

  • App Store
  • App Store and identified developers
  • Anywhere
Or at least an option to switch between the first two with clear implications that going outside the App Store ”relieve Apple of all liability”.
Sadly when that day happens I don’t think I’ll have much of a reason to stay as much as I dislike the other options
 

Anox

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2020
88
21
What do you mean? Apple already has the orchard locked down.
Not exactly* macOS still operates very differently then iOS In that you can download and install apps from the web
* I do recognize that Catalina changes things but in my experience not a lot
 

pasamio

macrumors regular
Jan 22, 2020
216
165
Not exactly* macOS still operates very differently then iOS In that you can download and install apps from the web
* I do recognize that Catalina changes things but in my experience not a lot

Apple are moving to lock down the Mac more with Big Sur and Apple Silicon but they've also stated their desire to let unsigned code run on it as well. I suspect some of that is self interest for their own employees being productive as managing all of that stuff is a lot of overhead. I'd also expect that a lot of the open source patches they shipped for Apple Silicon support were around their own self interest of having their developers productive with those tools in addition to kickstarting that ecosystem in general.

Setapp has always felt a little odd, all you can eat apps is nice and realistically it's the model Apple Arcade works on but it's always felt like purchasing an app was better value for me as an individual. I dislike that everyone is now chasing subscription as the ARR model as opposed to major patches for software releases. It's great for using an app once for a short period of time and then not using it but I don't have that many apps that fit the low use bar. What I feel I'd like to see more of is maintenance models where I can opt to stop paying for a product but I also stop receiving updates after that point, how major releases used to work. Subscription for the most part seems to benefit the developer with very infrequent value for the consumer.
 

MacBH928

Contributor
May 17, 2008
4,837
1,859
I am extremely anti-subscription but 190 apps for $10 sounds like a good deal. Some of the apps that are worthwhile on there: iStat Menu, Ulyssis, DiskDrill, Bartender, Pathfinder

I like how they circumvented Apple rules by making apps subscription and not pay the 30% cut. I wonder what is the payout model is, $10 won't be enough fro all of them. Also surprised RapidWeaver is on there, who still makes websites on an offline WYSIWYG on a personal level?
 

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
Lol! You are wanting a FREE license & complaining?? Unbelievable.

No one has asked for a free license. Paying users are complaining about the bait n' switch tactic of removing something that was previously included in their package and charging additional money for it, while having the cheek to spin this change as good news.
 

InfinitelyUndiscoverable

macrumors newbie
May 22, 2020
2
0
I have an annual subscription that I purchased a few months ago. I am currently conducting an inventory of the Apps that I actually like enough to use frequently and many of them are actually available as one-time-purchase.

I feel that many of the subscription based apps (not one time purchase apps) included in there are not best-in-class with Ulysses being a big exception. For example, I tried Diarly journaling App and it was not good enough to justify canceling Day One subscription. The key thing for me was getting full version of Ulysses for a little more money with 100s of other Apps. Now, that equation has changed and I just cannot justify renewing. I have in fact purchased Scrivener recently and am loving that. Between Scrivener, Day One and, if needed, a much cheaper Bear Subscription, I will have a AAA writing experience covered for much cheaper than the new SetApp model
 

ignatius345

macrumors 68040
Aug 20, 2015
3,027
4,018
As Setapp increases its stranglehold on developers, it is worth asking: what sort of people are we dealing with here? Is this predatory behavior normal in Ukraine? What can users expect next?

How do they have a "stranglehold"? As far as I can tell, many of the apps are available for purchase directly from their indie developers or from the Mac App Store.

I have looked at Setapp a few times, but realized that I actually already own outright several of the key apps I'd want (MindNode, Aeon Timeline, Bartender, HazeOver, BusyCal) and am subscribed, begrudgingly, to another (Ulysses). With the exception of MindNode and Ulysses which are App Store exclusives, I purchased all these directly from the developers, free of Setapp's arbitrary device limitations and steep price.

If all these apps were somehow exclusive to Setapp, I could see that being an issue -- but they're not and it's quite easy to just bypass them entirely, and get more of your money directly to the software developers.
 

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
How do they have a "stranglehold"?

A stranglehold is not the same as a monopoly.

Supermarkets would be an example: there are many, many different supermarket chains but food producers are vulnerable to continual pressure from the larger chains, such as Walmart, to offer them exclusively low prices, pay for store placement, and run exclusive deals.

The producers can choose to simply refuse and lose their distribution via Walmart, or some other large chain, but that will harm their overall sales, reduce their efficiencies of scale, and make some forms of mass media marketing, such as TV, less viable. In that way, several different large chains can be said to have a stranglehold.

Just like the bundle packagers of past years, Setapp are trying to establish themselves as one of the primary ways in which consumers find apps. If they continue to grow, their leverage will increase. We have seen that they are not shy about pressing their advantage over time. At a certain point, indie developers will have little choice but to accept whatever terms they offer.
 

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
The key thing for me was getting full version of Ulysses for a little more money with 100s of other Apps. Now, that equation has changed and I just cannot justify renewing. I have in fact purchased Scrivener recently and am loving that.

This is such an important point. While Setapp does offer good value if you were already going to buy some of those flagship apps, the reality is that the Setapp option for a specific type of app is not always the best. Scrivener is a better choice for writers that Ulysses, but the previous availability of both the Mac and iOS apps as part of the standard $9.99 Setapp subscription swung things in favor of Ulysses. Now that access to the iOS app will cost an additional $29.88 per year per device, it makes far less sense.

Scrivener for Mac is $50 (purchase, not subscription), often discounted for events such as NaNoWrimo. A new major version is released every few years. Existing license holders receive a significant discount if you bought direct, but not if you bought via the Mac App Store.

The iOS Scrivener app is a one-time purchase of $19.99, rarely discounted, but you and five members of your family can use it on as many iPads and iPhones as you want.
 

Cyprusian

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2018
73
90
Northern Ireland
One point I'm not clear on with the SetApp model is what happens to Apps downloaded via SetApp after a user cancels their subscription.

In other words, if someone subscribed to SetApp, downloaded all the Apps they needed, then cancelled their subscription they would have got a bargain unless the terms of a SetApp subscription prevent them from doing this. If a user loses access to Apps obtained though SetpApp after cancelling their subscription, then those Apps would become very expensive.

No doubt a SetApp user will put me straight on this, but for now I'm clearly totally unconvinced on the viability of the SetApp business model from the user's perspective....
 

Donnacha

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2006
228
41
One point I'm not clear on with the SetApp model is what happens to Apps downloaded via SetApp after a user cancels their subscription.

They remain working until the end of the final day of the current period you have paid for. Then they stop working.

If a user loses access to Apps obtained though SetpApp after cancelling their subscription, then those Apps would become very expensive.

There's quite a lot of value there if you were likely to have bought 3 or 4 of the apps individually and you only use one Mac. It would not be hard to spend $108 (the annual price of Setapp) if buying the apps individually. Developers often run discount promotions on their own sites but keeping track of them, and deciding which ones you want, can waste a lot of time. Setapp is more convenient.

At the very least, if you have the time to experiment, subscribing for a month or two gives you the chance to try a lot of different apps and discover if they might be useful to you. A lot of people who use their Macs mostly for browsing and games haven't really explored the broader potential of apps.

You could find one or two gems, decide to cancel your Setapp subscription, and buy them directly. Obviously, most apps are available on Setapp are also available for free trial from the developer's own website, but Setapp gives you one interface to browse and install from.

I'm clearly totally unconvinced on the viability of the SetApp business model from the user's perspective

If you have the time and curiosity to learn about lots of new apps, and if you use only one Mac, Setapps provides a lot for ten dollars per month or $108 per year. Of course, you could say the same about Netflix or any other type of subscription bundle: worth it if you have the interest and time to actually use it.

The viability for Setapp is that, out of pure inertia, the majority of users will remain subscribed for years even if they never get around to using many of the apps. That oh-so-human quirk applies to all forms of subscription, and that is why companies love selling them.
 
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smart_burro

macrumors newbie
Mar 19, 2020
2
1
Fort Worth, TX
When I initially saw Setapp's announcement that it would be available on iOS I was confused because as a Setapp user I have been using the iOS versions of Ulysses since 2017 and Paste for about 6 months without having to pay for an additional subscription. I used my Setapp subscription to activate both apps on my iPhone, iPad Pro and even on a spare iPhone I have. Now, if I want to keep both apps on all of the same devices I will have to pay an additional $7.50/mo? It would be cheaper to just pay for a separate Ulysses subscription through the App Store ($5.99/mo) and delete Paste and use Copied instead.

Now whenever I open up Ulysses on my iOS/iPadOS devices I get a message telling me that "Ulysses is now available through Setapp for iOS", it then goes on to say that I am currently using Ulysses on iOS through my Setapp subscription and that I will lose access to Ulysses after August 31, 2020 unless I sign up for Setapp for iOS (see attached image). WTF? Ulysses should fire whoever wrote this nonsense because they are a f**king moron.

I don't believe Setapp users were previously able to activate MindNode on iOS/iPadOS using Setapp, however, MindNode is available on the App Store for $2.49/mo which allows you to use it on any iOS, iPadOS or macOS device using your Apple ID. I purchased a full license of MindNode v 7 on iOS awhile ago. With 2Do I paid the one time cost for the pro version over 3 years ago. I am a bit surprised that 2Do's developer is ok with the change being made by Setapp as he has in the past been against forcing users to pay for a subscription for something they've already paid for. He went as far as to make 2Do free (to attract more users) for the basic app and then locked premium features behind a 1 time payment for a "pro" version. Any user the paid for the app before it went free automatically got the pro version for free. So for me, the only app that I wouldn't be able to access on iOS anymore is Ulysses. I am definitely not paying an extra $7.50/mo to access Ulysses and they'll have to double or triple the number of apps available on iOS before I will be willing to pay the $7.50/mo extra.

Setapp is entitled to make any change they want to their service, but users that have already paid for a year of the service should be allowed to ride out the remainder of the 12 months they've already paid for under the old system. If Setapp doesn't want to allow this they need to give prorated refunds to anyone that wants them. I personally pay by the month, but if I was an annual subscriber that didn't like these changes I would be pissed off.

Setapp advertising this change as something new and a benefit to users is at best disingenuous and at worst an outright lie. I didn't realize that Setapp went from allowing activations on 2 Mac's per subscription to just 1. I have it on my Mac mini and my wife's MacBook Air and so far haven't had any issues. If they eventually deactivate one of my devices and want me to pay more to keep it on 2 devices plus charge me $2.49/mo for each iOS/iPadOS device I will be cancelling my subscription.
IMG_0358.JPG
 
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