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Sherlock Holmes-ing My iMac...

S

schmendrick

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 8, 2021
20
1
I’m confused. Have been in contact with Apple over the past month for about a half-dozen times on this issue. (Apple has provided nothing but consistent A+ service.)

2019 iMac
21.5”, 1Tb HD, 3.6Ghz Quad Core
Big Sur

Bought in 2019 but not used until April of last year.

From near the beginning, I had issues with slow performance.

And last November there was a kernel panic situation.

Everything came to a head this winter/spring. I was having a whole pile of issues, which I laid out for Apple. Slow responses in just about every situation. Spinning beachball festival. 'This Mac shut down...' I won’t bore you with all the details. But I will say that Disk Utility at one point said that ‘repairs are disabled'. This seemed to go away with my first Big Sur install. But even in Safe mode, I was having issues, though not exactly the same ones. (Test login just annoyed me.) Disk Utility repeatedly in Recovery mode tells me everything's good.

Apple and me, we’ve tried everything. I just (finally) did a clean install of Big Sur, but apparently, with my Time Machine backup brought over to the iMac, I’m back at square one; things are maybe worse than they were previously.

Apple has said that the next step is to get it checked into a repair shop. Which is fine, it’s still under Apple Care, but I have to find a way to work while it’s away.

I’m here to ask for some insight into what exactly it is that I’m -seemingly- bringing back via Time Machine that’s screwing things up, assuming it’s not a hardware issue. Are we talking corrupt files? Wonky software? (There are no login items in play.) Whatever it is, it affects everything. Browsers. Activity Monitor. Apps. Emptying the trash. Toggling between apps. Dock. Even before I open an app, such as Pages or Final Draft. (I'm a writer.) It’s like it boots up already lathered in molasses.

Bueller? Bueller?

Thanks in advance.
 
Maybe a few more details about the iMac and exactly which version of Big Suck you're using?

If the 1Tb HD is actually a spinner that that would explain a slowdown. APFS doesn't work very well on mechanical hard drives since it's optimized to work with SSDs. How much RAM is installed in this iMac? If you have Safari running all the time it's a known memory hog if you have more than a couple of tabs open so may be a contributor. Did you update the OS to Big Suck from Crapalina or do a clean install? If possible it might be better to go back to Mojave which was less of a dumpster fire than it's two successors. Are you running any background apps that could be slowing things down like Antivirus software?
 
OS 11.2.3
8Gb RAM
Yes, I hate Safari. It's maybe the only Apple thing I've ever hated. I also use Brave and Firefox.
I had Mojave running, but then Apple suggested I upgrade. I would go back to Mojave in a heartbeat.
When I updated from Mojave, it was not a clean install. I installed via Recovery, but hadn't erased the HD. Only this recent install was a clean one.
No antivirus software.
 
No, at the moment I think we should go with the free option.

OK. Here's how you do this.

1) Run EtreCheck. Choose "Computer is too slow" as the problem.
2) Let it run.
3) When it's finished go to the left sidebar and scroll all the way to the bottom.
4) Click on Report. There you can read the report on the right but not edit it.
5) Click the Share Report option in the Toolbar at the top. Looks like a square with an arrow going out the top. Choose Copy Report from the menu it shows.
6) Click the "How to post" button. Read the instructions. It's specific to publishing on the Apple Support Communities but some of that is useful for posting here.
7) Close the instructions and click the OK button. This pastes the report into the clipboard.
8) Open a new text window on the Mac using TextEdit and paste into it.
9) Read through the report and remove the credentials for your bitcoin wallet and your secret Swiss bank account.
10) Save the report (maybe to the desktop) and then use the "Attach files" button when you type your next comment here to attach it to the comment.
 
Last edited:
rpmurray said:
No, at the moment I think we should go with the free option.

OK. Here's how you do this.

1) Run EtreCheck. Choose "Computer is too slow" as the problem.
2) Let it run.
3) When it's finished go to the left sidebar and scroll all the way to the bottom.
4) Click on Report. There you can read the report on the right but not edit it.
5) Click the Share Report option in the Toolbar at the top. Looks like a square with an arrow going out the top. Choose Copy Report from the menu it shows.
6) Click the "How to post" button. Read the instructions. It's specific to publishing on the Apple Support Communities but some of that is useful for posting here.
7) Close the instructions and click the OK button. This pastes the report into the clipboard.
8) Open a new text window on the Mac using TextEdit and paste into it.
9) Read through the report and remove the credentials for your bitcoin wallet and your secret Swiss bank account.
10) Save the report (maybe to the desktop) and then use the "Attach files" button when you type your next comment here to attach it to the comment.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the guidance. Report attached. (I hope.)
 

Attachments

  • M’s iMac 2021-04-16b.pdf
    36.5 KB · Views: 115
Report was attached. You did good.

I'm not seeing anything obvious jump out at me from a quick scan except for the following in the Major Issues section:

Hard drive too slow - The hard drive in this computer is too slow.

Which is evidenced by:

APPLE HDD HTS541010A9E632 1.00 TB (Mechanical - 5400 RPM)

I have to say to Apple, 5400 rpm? Really? In a 2019 iMac? What century are they living in?

Anyway, the HDD is formatted as APFS because you're running Big Sur and it won't run on an HFS+ formatted drive. Unfortunately APFS is a dog on a spinning hard drive (especially a slow 5400 rpm drive), but, from what I hear, flies on an SSD. Do you have an external SSD? Preferably one that you could plug into one of the Thunderbolt 3 ports, or maybe into one of the USB 3 ports, which is almost as fast and a whole lot cheaper. You could use CCC to make a bootable copy of your internal onto it and boot from the external. If everything runs a lot faster (and it should) then you could use the external to do your work, and the internal for a backup.

I'm not sure if Slartibart has some experience with Android File Transfer but you could try their suggestion too. Although the Top Processes Snapshots don't show it using much in the way of resources.
 
So.

I got this iMac because my 2012 had a HD issue, and I lost all the data. Fortunately, I have a friend who has a friend who owns a recovery firm, and he got everything back. However, I could not boot from it. So I got an external 500 Gb SanDisk SSD and (somehow) got Catalina on it, and I use that iMac for secondary work. (And yes, it flies in comparison to the 2019. Although it seems to be getting temperamental, and I'm loath to download the two Catalina updates Apple keeps bugging me about, because my Spidey Sense tells me that road leads to...well, potentially nowhere nice.)

And I do have an external SSD for my 2019. However, I've tried installing both Mojave and Catalina on it, but it gives me a message that something is 'too old' to do the install...and now I'm wondering if it's because- Well, no, I'm not going to wonder. I'm not smart enough for that.

If I can figure out how to make this SSD into a boot drive, great.

But one way or another, I'm -eventually- getting rid of this 2019 once the new iMacs are released. However, in the meantime, I have to either just suck it up until then and then have this serviced by Apple for the next owner...or have them service it, get it back to normal running...but then I'm potentially looking at being in the same place I am right now, bringing me back to my initial question: What am I copying over into a clean, fumigated home to make it stink so much? Because the slooooooooowness is making me think that maybe I'm working through some bad karma. It's absolutely ridiculous. By far the slowest computer I've ever owned...and my first was a Macintosh Plus. LOL

And of course, this also raises the issue of 'Could this happen with a 2021 iMac as well?' That I infect a new computer with the stink that's on this one...?
 
OP wrote:
"From near the beginning, I had issues with slow performance."

You have issues with "slow performance" because you have a platter-based hard drive inside.

These are TERRIBLE (performance-wise) with later versions of the Mac OS.
There is nothing you can do so long as you keep booting from it.
It's ALWAYS going to be slow, and may get worse as it ages.

The solution:
Get an EXTERNAL SSD.
Plug it in and set it up to become "the new boot drive".
Do this, and things will run MUCH faster.

OK, I see by your post above that you already have an SSD.
Want to get it up and running quickly?
Then PRINT THIS OUT and follow my instructions.

1. Connect the SSD
2. Use disk utility to erase/format it to "APFS, GUID partition format".
3. Download CarbonCopyCloner from here:
Carbon Copy Cloner - Download
CCC is FREE to download and use for 30 days, my solution costs you nothing.
4. Open CCC. Accept the defaults. Get to the "main window" that has "3 boxes".
5. On the left, put your source drive (the internal drive)
6. In the middle, put the external SSD (your target)
7. Ignore the scheduling box on the right -- you don't need this.
8. Now click the clone button and follow through.
9. Cloning may take a while, be patient.
10. When done, quit CCC and open the startup disk preference pane
11. Click the lock and enter your administrative password
12. Click the SSD to designate it as the new boot drive
13. Close system preferences and reboot.
14. Log in and check "about this Mac". Does it show the SSD as the new boot drive?
If so, congratulations, you're done.
 
Last edited:
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Fishrrman said:
OP wrote:
"From near the beginning, I had issues with slow performance."

You have issues with "slow performance" because you have a platter-based hard drive inside.

These are TERRIBLE (performance-wise) with later versions of the Mac OS.
There is nothing you can do so long as you keep booting from it.
It's ALWAYS going to be slow, and may get worse as it ages.

The solution:
Get an EXTERNAL SSD.
Plug it in and set it up to become "the new boot drive".
Do this, and things will run MUCH faster.

OK, I see by your post above that you already have an SSD.
Want to get it up and running quickly?
Then PRINT THIS OUT and follow my instructions.

1. Connect the SSD
2. Use disk utility to erase/format it to "APFS, GUID partition format".
3. Download CarbonCopyCloner from here:
Carbon Copy Cloner - Download
CCC is FREE to download and use for 30 days, my solution costs you nothing.
4. Open CCC. Accept the defaults. Get to the "main window" that has "3 boxes".
5. On the left, put your source drive (the internal drive)
6. In the middle, put the external SSD (your target)
7. Ignore the scheduling box on the right -- you don't need this.
8. Now click the clone button and follow through.
9. Cloning may take a while, be patient.
10. When done, quit CCC and open the startup disk preference pane
11. Click the lock and enter your administrative password
12. Click the SSD to designate it as the new boot drive
13. Close system preferences and reboot.
14. Log in and check "about this Mac". Does it show the SSD as the new boot drive?
If so, congratulations, you're done.
Click to expand...
--->This<--- is my assignment this weekend. Am going to get right on it. Thank you muchly.
I'm sure this will work, but I'm curious as to what to do when I sell the iMac. Do I simply let Apple get it back to factory fresh and go from there? Because I can't see trying to sell it to someone and have to add 'It comes with an external SSD boot-drive because the internal HD is painfully slow."?
 
Fishrrman said:
OP wrote:
"From near the beginning, I had issues with slow performance."

You have issues with "slow performance" because you have a platter-based hard drive inside.

These are TERRIBLE (performance-wise) with later versions of the Mac OS.
There is nothing you can do so long as you keep booting from it.
It's ALWAYS going to be slow, and may get worse as it ages.

The solution:
Get an EXTERNAL SSD.
Plug it in and set it up to become "the new boot drive".
Do this, and things will run MUCH faster.

OK, I see by your post above that you already have an SSD.
Want to get it up and running quickly?
Then PRINT THIS OUT and follow my instructions.

1. Connect the SSD
2. Use disk utility to erase/format it to "APFS, GUID partition format".
3. Download CarbonCopyCloner from here:
Carbon Copy Cloner - Download
CCC is FREE to download and use for 30 days, my solution costs you nothing.
4. Open CCC. Accept the defaults. Get to the "main window" that has "3 boxes".
5. On the left, put your source drive (the internal drive)
6. In the middle, put the external SSD (your target)
7. Ignore the scheduling box on the right -- you don't need this.
8. Now click the clone button and follow through.
9. Cloning may take a while, be patient.
10. When done, quit CCC and open the startup disk preference pane
11. Click the lock and enter your administrative password
12. Click the SSD to designate it as the new boot drive
13. Close system preferences and reboot.
14. Log in and check "about this Mac". Does it show the SSD as the new boot drive?
If so, congratulations, you're done.
Click to expand...
'Never underestimate a doofus's need for ongoing explanations.'

So am I correct in assuming that the SSD drive needs to be at least as big as the amount of data used on the internal HD? That I'm not creating a simple OS boot drive, but one with everything on it? I only have the OS on my other Mac's external SSD boot-drive.
 
It would be easiest and simplest to copy the whole internal HD to an SSD of the same size or larger. You could copy just the OS if you've done that before but it's a bit involved since you have to be careful of the home directory and other stuff, and Big Sur does this thing where it's already splitting the OS from the Data in separate volumes, although it hides the details from you. That's why you probably want to let CCC or SuperDuper do the heavy lifting for you. The report you uploaded says you have the CCC User Agent in your login items so you must have installed it at some time in the past.

As far as reselling it you really have three options.

1) Sell it with just the internal HD but warn people that that's all they're getting. Buyers who know what they're getting into will probably try to lowball on the price you're asking.

2) Have someone you trust and has technical chops crack open the case and replace the HD with an SSD before you try to sell it. This is not for the faint of heart but there are a lot of videos on YouTube and elsewhere (iFixit, OWC, etc.) showing the process so you can get an idea what it entails.

3) You can sell it with an external SSD boot drive like you said.

or

4) You can give it to me for free because I'm such a helpful guy.
 
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The SSD has to be at least large enough to hold what's on the internal drive now, plus about 5-10gb more for "free space" for "working".

How much space is currently used on your internal drive?
How much space is available on your SSD?
 
Fishrrman said:
The SSD has to be at least large enough to hold what's on the internal drive now, plus about 5-10gb more for "free space" for "working".

How much space is currently used on your internal drive?
How much space is available on your SSD?
Click to expand...
600Gb used on the iMac HD.
The SSD is 64Gb. I bought it to be a dedicated boot-drive. As I have on my 2012, only that is a 500Gb.
 
rpmurray said:
It would be easiest and simplest to copy the whole internal HD to an SSD of the same size or larger. You could copy just the OS if you've done that before but it's a bit involved since you have to be careful of the home directory and other stuff, and Big Sur does this thing where it's already splitting the OS from the Data in separate volumes, although it hides the details from you. That's why you probably want to let CCC or SuperDuper do the heavy lifting for you. The report you uploaded says you have the CCC User Agent in your login items so you must have installed it at some time in the past.

As far as reselling it you really have three options.

1) Sell it with just the internal HD but warn people that that's all they're getting. Buyers who know what they're getting into will probably try to lowball on the price you're asking.

2) Have someone you trust and has technical chops crack open the case and replace the HD with an SSD before you try to sell it. This is not for the faint of heart but there are a lot of videos on YouTube and elsewhere (iFixit, OWC, etc.) showing the process so you can get an idea what it entails.

3) You can sell it with an external SSD boot drive like you said.

or

4) You can give it to me for free because I'm such a helpful guy.
Click to expand...
Lots to consider, but I do know this: Whatever is going on with the iMac, Apple will be looking at it and when I get it back...it's under warranty, remember...I'll be selling it as a perfectly working used version of what someone can (as of today) get from them new. Not 'flawed' or damaged, or otherwise affected. Now of course, if they want to call it a day and give me a new one... (It wouldn't be the first time; about dozen years ago, they replaced a PowerBook with a MacBook Pro without me asking.)
 
OP wrote:
"The SSD is 64Gb."

Not big enough.

Your best bet is to buy a 1tb drive.
Then, just CCC the internal to the external.

Since the iMac is a 2019 model with USBc ports, I'd suggest a 1tb nvme blade drive and a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure.

There are numerous choices of each.
The drive just drops into the enclosure - some don't even use screws.

Be aware that it will get quite warm (as in, "hot") while transferring 600gb of data using CarbonCopyCloner.

But afterwards, should be only warm during most operations.
 
If you're just looking to get a bit more pep into the iMac you may want to go with something easy and cheap like the 1 TB Samsung T5 or T7, $120 and $150 on Amazon at the time of this post, or you can find it at other places.
 
Thank you everyone for your contributions so far.

I am getting Apple service this weekend. Will be able to report back this time next week. (Which may take me back to one of my original questions: If I get the iMac back from Apple in factory shape, and I transfer over my data from Time Machine and I'm back to Molassesland, this means that I've brought the problem back, right? If so, how will I determine what the culprit is?)

As a sidebar, I managed to get Big Sur installed on that small drive. I don't yet have a full grasp on the ins and outs of using an SSD as my boot drive, but I'll leave that for now.
 
When you get the iMac back from Apple you may want to do a clean install of a couple of the apps you use regularly and use it for a while to see if it is back in Molassesland. If the problem is still there with a clean install of the apps and you haven't moved over anything from your backup then it's something about the iMac. I believe the consensus here is that it's the pitifully slow HDD that you have in this iMac that's responsible for the poor performance, especially with more current versions of macOS that format the drive as APFS. The way I understand it is that Big Suck is incredibly chatty, reading and writing huge amounts of data to the drive even when it's idle. This doesn't show up so much on an SSD which is really fast, but on a slow spinning hard disk will make turtles seem to be moving at lightspeeed in comparison.
 
OP wrote:
"I don't yet have a full grasp on the ins and outs of using an SSD as my boot drive, but I'll leave that for now."

There aren't many (any?) "ins and outs".
You just use it...
 
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