Should Apple de-bundle some of the built-in Apps like Android?

[bozzykid]

Hell why we even discussing going down an android upgrade path, havent we learned where that leads.

It leads to things like Google Now and Gmail seeing monthly updates to improve user experience. That doesn't seem to be a bad thing at all.

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Unlike Android, Apple seems to have no issue pushing out OS updates.

Yet, Siri gets updated only once a year. Apple rarely updates their apps except for major OS updates.

 

[Badrottie]

Yes mind you, I never used Stock (Inever own any stock), GameCenter (I have some games but never bother to check GameCenter??) and Compass (Apple Map has built in compass so why Compass app???)

 

[juswest]

This post is why I don't really consider Android a singular OS in the same way iOS is. Two very different beasts.

 

[me7]

In iOS 7, one of the new features is Apple can now update the built in apps independently of any OS update.

Prior to iOS 7, you're correct, they could only be upgraded in a system update.

Wait a second, this means that Apple could easily issue an update for the unfinished music app alone, they just can't be arsed to? Now I'm even more disappointed by iOS7. The new music app is a prime example of an app that would need urgent updates prior to the release of iOS7.1. It's more cumbersome to use than my old clickwheel iPod.

 

[cmichaelb]

Wait a second, this means that Apple could easily issue an update for the unfinished music app alone, they just can't be arsed to? Now I'm even more disappointed by iOS7. The new music app is a prime example of an app that would need urgent updates prior to the release of iOS7.1. It's more cumbersome to use than my old clickwheel iPod.

What's wrong with the music app?

Yes, it was announced during the WWDC 2013 keynote.

 

[me7]

What's wrong with the music app? It's insanely stupid to use with a large music collection. Having all albums by an artist expanded all the time is neat if you have only two or three albums per artist, but if an artist has had a lengthy career with 10+ albums you have to spend a lot of time scrolling through unnecessarily long lists.
How it doesn't respect album borders during playback gets even more annoying over time. After three weeks of use, it annoys me even more than the scrolling.
Didn't people already agree during the beta period that the music app is the worst aspect of iOS7 😕

To read that they have the mechanism in place to update it any time but just don't want to is insulting. They cripple my mp3 player with a faulty software update and refuse the option to roll back to iOS6 until iOS7 is actually finished. As of now, the music app feels like an alpha product. Bot beta, because beta implies feature complete and features from the iOS6 music app are still missing.

 

[cmichaelb]

What's wrong with the music app? It's insanely stupid to use with a large music collection. Having all albums by an artist expanded all the time is neat if you have only two or three albums per artist, but if an artist has had a lengthy career with 10+ albums you have to spend a lot of time scrolling through unnecessarily long lists.
How it doesn't respect album borders during playback gets even more annoying over time. After three weeks of use, it annoys me even more than the scrolling.
Didn't people already agree during the beta period that the music app is the worst aspect of iOS7 😕

To read that they have the mechanism in place to update it any time but just don't want to is insulting. They cripple my mp3 player with a faulty software update and refuse the option to roll back to iOS6 until iOS7 is actually finished. As of now, the music app feels like an alpha product. Bot beta, because beta implies feature complete and features from the iOS6 music app are still missing.

Ah, makes more sense. I can see where that would be annoying, but 'crippled' is quite the exaggeration. With nearly 1000 song songs on my iPhone, maybe I just keep a smaller selection on my iPhone.

I organize my music in a much different way - I just create playlist in iTunes and then set those playlist to sync. It's quick and easy to add to.

 

[Black Magic]

Ah, makes more sense. I can see where that would be annoying, but 'crippled' is quite the exaggeration. With nearly 1000 song songs on my iPhone, maybe I just keep a smaller selection on my iPhone.

I organize my music in a much different way - I just create playlist in iTunes and then set those playlist to sync. It's quick and easy to add to.

I agree with your approach and that is what I started doing as well even though I have 64 GB phone. Playlist are easier to manage and removes all the fluff.

 

[jtfolden]

I'm wondering if Apple should consider de-bundling some of the built-in apps like calendar and such so that they can be updated more frequently with fixes and features? Google did this with Android and it seems to be working very well. Not sure if there are any down sides to doing this.

What are your thoughts?

NO. Google only does this with Android because there is severe fragmentation of the user base running different versions of Android due to the lack of carrier updates.

Apple has complete control over iOS and updates are available to all users regularly. Data shows that the bulk of users, also, upgrade to the latest version of iOS fairly quickly and so there is absolutely no need to provide updated apps independent of the OS.

In fact, it would make things worse for Apple, users, and developers alike as it may actually entice users to stick with older versions of iOS and just update select apps. This increases the fragmentation that is such a problem on Android.

 

[TennisandMusic]

This makes the huge assumption that they have some intention or desire or problem in updating them more frequently.

Unlike Android, Apple seems to have no issue pushing out OS updates.

See 7.0.1, 7.0.2, impending 7.0.3.

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For Android, it's a desperate workaround by Google because they foolishly closed themselves out of being able to update users devices.

Uh no, separating apps from the OS is always a good thing. Integrating app updates as part of the OS updates is completely absurd.

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NO. Google only does this with Android because there is severe fragmentation of the user base running different versions of Android due to the lack of carrier updates.

Apple has complete control over iOS and updates are available to all users regularly. Data shows that the bulk of users, also, upgrade to the latest version of iOS fairly quickly and so there is absolutely no need to provide updated apps independent of the OS.

In fact, it would make things worse for Apple, users, and developers alike as it may actually entice users to stick with older versions of iOS and just update select apps. This increases the fragmentation that is such a problem on Android.

No, they do this because it is a far superior model. You seriously don't want regular updates to your core apps, either feature updates or bug fixes? My Nexus 4 gets regular updates to all my most used apps. It's fantastic. My new 5s will languish just like the 5 did I am sure.

 

[jtfolden]

Uh no, separating apps from the OS is always a good thing. Integrating app updates as part of the OS updates is completely absurd.

When they are bundled apps integrated into the OS, no it really isn't...

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No, they do this because it is a far superior model. You seriously don't want regular updates to your core apps, either feature updates or bug fixes? My Nexus 4 gets regular updates to all my most used apps. It's fantastic. My new 5s will languish just like the 5 did I am sure.

No, that is NOT why they do it. They do it specifically for the reason I mentioned and this is well known. Also, the Nexus devices are not representative of the state of Android in general.

 

[Curun]

Uh no, separating apps from the OS is always a good thing. Integrating app updates as part of the OS updates is completely absurd.

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No, they do this because it is a far superior model. You seriously don't want regular updates to your core apps, either feature updates or bug fixes? My Nexus 4 gets regular updates to all my most used apps. It's fantastic. My new 5s will languish just like the 5 did I am sure.

Less than 3 weeks since iOS7 launched. Already had 2 updates, a third reportedly in the works.

Looks like you got your wish, not languishing like an android handset.

 

[Daveoc64]

Less than 3 weeks since iOS7 launched. Already had 2 updates, a third reportedly in the works.

Looks like you got your wish, not languishing like an android handset.

Those are minor updates to fix security problems.

Since Apple started offering OTA updates, the rate of iOS releases has slowed down significantly.

iOS 4 and earlier had regular, major updates with new features.

iOS 5 and 6 didn't even get a .2 release.

 

[bozzykid]

Less than 3 weeks since iOS7 launched. Already had 2 updates, a third reportedly in the works.

None of those updates had anything to do with built-in apps being updated. Perhaps bug fixes but mostly the first few releases were security fixes. Apple hardly ever does real development of built-in apps outside the initial major release of iOS.

 

[cynics]

Apple would just release a new small iOS update. Android does their core apps separately because most android phones will never see a new OS version and would never see the new functionality. The S4 doesn't even had Android 4.3 (latest version) and it came out back in July. Any iOS updates, iPhone users will get the same day. It works best this way for both systems.

The S4 not having 4.3 isn't a very fair statement. It still Jelly Bean and offers support to a lot of stuff the S4 doesn't have.

It would be like me saying prior to the iOS 7.0.2 that I'm mad because my 4S didn't get iOS 7.0.1 even though it was iPhone 5S exclusive.

 

[Curun]

None of those updates had anything to do with built-in apps being updated. Perhaps bug fixes but mostly the first few releases were security fixes. Apple hardly ever does real development of built-in apps outside the initial major release of iOS.

My point exactly.
Wishing for the core apps to be isolated from iOS does nothing for iOS or us as the community.

Apple already pushes updates when they want/need are ready. And they simply don't want to update core apps that often. Separating the. Wont change that. We gain nothing.

The S4 not having 4.3 isn't a very fair statement. It still Jelly Bean and offers support to a lot of stuff the S4 doesn't have.

It would be like me saying prior to the iOS 7.0.2 that I'm mad because my 4S didn't get iOS 7.0.1 even though it was iPhone 5S exclusive.

I call false. Name something.
It does have Bluetooth hardware that 4.3 adds support for so you could use their own branded Galaxy Gear accessories.

 

[me7]

I agree that isolated updates of core apps are more necessary on Android due to many manufacturer's laziness in rolling out system update. However, the reason why it's the better way to update apps applies to iOS equally. Updates for the whole OS require a lot of testing and approval from people high up in the company.

Let's assume this scenario: the calendar has an exotic bug that annoys 0,1% of the users very hard but is unnoticed by 99,9% and the dev working on the calendar app fixes it. If the app is updated separately, he can just issue an update almost immediately that probably needs only approval from his direct superior.

If all changes are consolidated in huge updates, he needs to wait until other fixes/changes that are scheduled for the same major release are finished. Due to the amount of changes the OS needs to undergo serious quality assurance tests because the fix for the calendar is bundled with, say, a new cellular radio software.
Even small fixes can take weeks or maybe even months before they are rolled out. (see the practically broken iOS7 music app as an example)

Some people mentioning the fast releases of iOS 7.0.1 and 7.0.2 as arguments how good the current system works. Both of these updates fail to address problems with the core apps. I'm a heavy user of the music app and the usability problems introduced by iOS7 were ignored by 7.0.2. iOS 7.1 is the earliest update where we can expect fixes for core apps, because small x.x.x update are only issued for security and connectivity problems, they won't help with the music app no matter how frequent they are. Usability fixes can take months, this is how slow Apple's current update strategy works.

 

[0000757]

It leads to things like Google Now and Gmail seeing monthly updates to improve user experience. That doesn't seem to be a bad thing at all.

This is only because if Android did this, there would be models that could easily run say 4.4 Kitkat with all the upgrades to Google Now and Gmail, but because of carriers and OEMs being so finicky with their upgrade processes, Google has to independently upgrade their apps, because otherwise only a select few of devices would even be able to have the latest update. Google recognizes their fragmentation issue, and they're trying to fix it while keeping the open model.

 

[darngooddesign]

Yes. Stocks, calendar, newsstand, and passbook should be downloadable though the App Store. Contacts shouldn't even have a separate app since it can be accessed in the phone app anyway.

Contacts is a separate app because of the iPods and iPads. I also believe that contacts is a separate app so you can access it via iCloud in the browser. That being said, it should not be installed on iPhones for the reason you mentioned.

 

[bozzykid]

This is only because if Android did this, there would be models that could easily run say 4.4 Kitkat with all the upgrades to Google Now and Gmail, but because of carriers and OEMs being so finicky with their upgrade processes, Google has to independently upgrade their apps, because otherwise only a select few of devices would even be able to have the latest update. Google recognizes their fragmentation issue, and they're trying to fix it while keeping the open model.

Fragmentation or not, users benefit because Google is actively developing core apps that are updated multiple times a year. It seems Apple only does once a year upgrades. At some point they are going to have to iterate faster.

 

[Stuke00]

The S4 not having 4.3 isn't a very fair statement. It still Jelly Bean and offers support to a lot of stuff the S4 doesn't have.

It would be like me saying prior to the iOS 7.0.2 that I'm mad because my 4S didn't get iOS 7.0.1 even though it was iPhone 5S exclusive.

4.3 isn't a device exclusive update... It was a major update over 4.2. 4.3 isn't a bug fix update. It added quite a few new features.

 

[WordMasterRice]

This makes the huge assumption that they have some intention or desire or problem in updating them more frequently.

Unlike Android, Apple seems to have no issue pushing out OS updates.

See 7.0.1, 7.0.2, impending 7.0.3.

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For Android, it's a desperate workaround by Google because they foolishly closed themselves out of being able to update users devices.

How does it make sense that if there is a small bug in Mail that you have to download and entire OS update?

 

[darngooddesign]

How does it make sense that if there is a small bug in Mail that you have to download and entire OS update?

What if the update to fix a small issue does not contain the entire OS? It's happened in the past.

 

[Curun]

Should Apple de-bundle some of the built-in Apps like Android?

How does it make sense that if there is a small bug in Mail that you have to download and entire OS update?

It does not, and you don't.

Apple supports incremental updates. We've seen several OS updates in the 8-14MB range.