Should I be worried about upgrading to Catalina

levmc

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2019
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A commenter said that if an app isn't made by Apple, there is a good chance that Catalina will break it.

Did anyone have a problem (for example, Audacity, etc) The commenter didn't mention Adobe Acrobat. What about Acrobat, would it still work ok?
 

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firelighter487

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2014
199
25
The Netherlands
the only apps that will break are 32-bit apps. audacity works fine. I don't have acrobat installed but you shouldn't either, just use Preview for PDF documents.

all this crap about Catalina breaking apps and all this stuff is BS, I've ran it since the beta totally fine, and the only apps that don't work are 32-bit apps, which I don't use.
 

vertical smile

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2014
4,626
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Can you post your Mac's specs and the apps that you use?

Based off of the posts on the forum, there are many people having issues with Catalina, they might just be a small minority though.

I suggest having a bootable backup before updating the OS to Catalina (or any major update) just in case.

I used to be an early adopter of new OS versions, but in the past few years, I have become very cautious to Apple's OS updates. This was mostly because of iOS, but even with MacOS I have started to become cautious. I think that overall, Apple's SW quality is not what it once was.

If you are happy with your current OS and there is no features that you want on Catalina, maybe just stick with what works or at least have a backup planned.
 

user_xyz

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2018
336
367
Why do you feel the need to update?
Is there any compelling reason?

Mojave is great for me. :)

I'm just saying "no" to Catalina!!
- - Post merged: - -

the only apps that will break are 32-bit apps. audacity works fine. I don't have acrobat installed but you shouldn't either, just use Preview for PDF documents.

all this crap about Catalina breaking apps and all this stuff is BS, I've ran it since the beta totally fine, and the only apps that don't work are 32-bit apps, which I don't use.
What does catalina do better then Mojave?
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
302
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Spain
the only apps that will break are 32-bit apps. audacity works fine. I don't have acrobat installed but you shouldn't either, just use Preview for PDF documents.

all this crap about Catalina breaking apps and all this stuff is BS, I've ran it since the beta totally fine, and the only apps that don't work are 32-bit apps, which I don't use.
Yes, Audacity works fine, BUT checking if an app is 32 or 64 bits is not enough. Audacity relies and uses auxiliary plug-ins to encode/decode, and some of them were 32bit. (Thanks to your posting, I'm checking if EVERY Audacity's component I need and use is now 64bit).
You can take a deeper look about 64bit compatibility with this free app: https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html
I'm staying in Mojave by now, as I can't find anything really new in Catalina, and speed and benchmarks are the same. Why should I dare to upgrade? Just to help Apple at beta-testing to fix what worked OK in Mojave? :confused:
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
19,455
6,751
OP:

If you really want to try Catalina, the best way would be to:

1. Get an EXTERNAL USB3 drive (an SSD would be best).

2. Install Catalina onto it, then "migrate" your stuff (including apps) onto the "test drive"

3. Boot and run your Catalina "external test drive" for a week or two.

5. If things seem satisfactory, THEN it will be time to apply it to your main, internal drive.

If you do it this way and something goes wrong, you can just erase the external drive and you LOSE NOTHING on your "main drive".

Take a flying leap of faith by installing it onto your main drive without enough precautions, and you may find that you end up someplace you don't like!
 
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fisherking

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Jul 16, 2010
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or you could back up your mac, then dive in. eventually, you'll want to move forward; i mean, who's running anything pre el capitan these days?

am enjoying catalina (mostly because it's not getting in the way of my work), and i use lots of 3rd-party apps (as do my collaborators).
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
302
75
Spain
OP:

If you really want to try Catalina, the best way would be to:

1. Get an EXTERNAL USB3 drive (an SSD would be best).

2. Install Catalina onto it, then "migrate" your stuff (including apps) onto the "test drive"

3. Boot and run your Catalina "external test drive" for a week or two.

5. If things seem satisfactory, THEN it will be time to apply it to your main, internal drive.

If you do it this way and something goes wrong, you can just erase the external drive and you LOSE NOTHING on your "main drive".

Take a flying leap of faith by installing it onto your main drive without enough precautions, and you may find that you end up someplace you don't like!
This is EXACTLY my intention. I even bought a M2 SSD and a USB 3 gen 2 case.
I LIKE being in last OS (.2, .3 should assure maturity), despite varied inconveniences mostly related to external devices or compatibility with old data, I presume.
BUT, I became to think about something important: what to do with Internet connection? Even wifi connection (near iOS devices)?
I fear trouble related to iCloud syncing, and every other comm. that system makes silently. The quick solution is to switch off WiFi (in my case) to avoid problems when GOING BACK to internal Mojave. ...But that makes the "new mac" quite limited...
...I mean, it's not maybe so easy as I thought, @Fishrrman , and following your reasonable instructions is just not enough, I'm afraid.
What do you think?
(I keep interested in an external boot disk with Catalina on it, but THIS has stopped my plan).
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
19,455
6,751
fisherking wrote:
"i mean, who's running anything pre el capitan these days?"

Why, I do.
My 2010 MacBook Pro has 10.6.8.
Boots up in 6 seconds and runs fine.

It has a second partition with Low Sierra.
But I seldom boot to it.
 

levmc

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2019
329
9
Fishrrman, why did you decide not to upgrade?
- - Post merged: - -

Why do you feel the need to update?
Is there any compelling reason?

Mojave is great for me. :)

I'm just saying "no" to Catalina!!
- - Post merged: - -



What does catalina do better then Mojave?
The reason for me would be that it takes time to wake up the computer time to time ever since upgrading to Mojave. Also sometimes after being asleep for a while, it would turn into a backlit black screen, or a screen with weird color swirls, from a screen that is sleeping.
 

fisherking

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Jul 16, 2010
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honestly, there's no harm in running an older OS, i know that. still... this is the catalina forum, so not sure why someone not running (or about to run) that OS would comment on it.

guess it makes the forum more 'entertaining'; you know, people insisting they can explain something they don't acutally know about.
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
302
75
Spain
honestly, there's no harm in running an older OS, i know that. still... this is the catalina forum, so not sure why someone not running (or about to run) that OS would comment on it.

guess it makes the forum more 'entertaining'; you know, people insisting they can explain something they don't acutally know about.
It's not just entertainment... Seems a logical conversation:
-Should I worry updating?
-Well, you can make a try on secondary disk...
-Just update and go with the times. No one uses old OSs.
-Yes, we do.
-Could Catalina on a spare disk (or different machine) mess things in synced elements with older OSs?
-People talking about something they don't know... Just chatting.

Well, as @Fishrrman perhaps doesn't know, could you @fisherking , explain me how well does syncing (iCloud, Keychain, etc) works when a user is in Catalina and also in prior OSs?
...Or just an answer from someone in that situation (it isn't obligatory to be entertaining, just informative).

Answering OP , I also think that testing Catalina on a "canary" before in main machine is a good idea, and the safest one. I want to do that on an alternative startup disk. Even in iOS, I upgrade other devices days, weeks, before personal iPhone. Just in case...
(And the place for this question is this forum, I'm afraid).
 
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fisherking

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2010
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It's not just entertainment... Seems a logical conversation:
-Should I worry updating?
-Well, you can make a try on secondary disk...
-Just update and go with the times. No one uses old OSs.
-Yes, we do.
-Could Catalina on a spare disk (or different machine) mess things in synced elements with older OSs?
-People talking about something they don't know... Just chatting.

Well, as @Fishrrman perhaps doesn't know, could you @fisherking , explain me how well does syncing (iCloud, Keychain, etc) works when a user is in Catalina and also in prior OSs?
...Or just an answer from someone in that situation (it isn't obligatory to be entertaining, just informative).

Answering OP , I also think that testing Catalina on a "canary" before in main machine is a good idea, and the safest one. I want to do that on an alternative startup disk. Even in iOS, I upgrade other devices days, weeks, before personal iPhone. Just in case...
(And the place for this question is this forum, I'm afraid).
i can't answer a question i don't know the answer to (sadly, that doesn't seem to stop a lot of people here).

this is anecdotal (not a statistic!), but most people i know don't live on forums like this; they upgrade their OS when apple offers it (or not); if they do, they adapt (ie, having to replace a 32bit version of office).

and life goes on. but here, on the forum, the sky is falling... and falling, and falling. and i find it frustrating (it distracts from us helping each other sort out issues), on a good day, tho... it is entertaining.
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
302
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Spain
Not so serious problems, mostly.
But not true everything is ok for everyone:
 

fisherking

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2010
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Not so serious problems, mostly.
But not true everything is ok for everyone:
i've never claimed it's perfect; no OS ever is. but the stickies issue was resolved many betas ago, and (for me, at least), there are no real issues currently (that's not to say there won't be; i am running the betas....)
 

mj_

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2017
818
476
Austin, TX
the only apps that will break are 32-bit apps. audacity works fine. I don't have acrobat installed but you shouldn't either, just use Preview for PDF documents.
Who are you to lecture people on what software they should or should not use? There are plenty of valid use cases for Adobe Reader and just because you don't use it or need it doesn't mean others don't. Plus, I hope you do realize that Adobe Acrobat (which op is referring to) and Adobe Reader (which you are referencing) are two completely different products, right?

guess it makes the forum more 'entertaining'; you know, people insisting they can explain something they don't acutally know about.
That right here is one of my favorite things on the internet: people who have no clue and no experience trying to lecture or belittle others. That and of course the "I don't use/require it in my particular situation that is completely different from yours, so you shouldn't either" superimposition that is oh-so common these days. See prime example right above.

@levmc What version of Adobe Acrobat are you running? Editions older than Acrobat 2015 will not run on Catalina anymore, and since I was still using Acrobat Professional 9.5 and more recent versions had a significantly worse OCR engine I decided to keep the older version running in a virtual machine. I don't use it that often, maybe once a week or even every other week, so that worked out great for me. I wouldn't want to use it like that every day, though.
 
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levmc

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2019
329
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@levmc What version of Adobe Acrobat are you running? Editions older than Acrobat 2015 will not run on Catalina anymore, and since I was still using Acrobat Professional 9.5 and more recent versions had a significantly worse OCR engine I decided to keep the older version running in a virtual machine. I don't use it that often, maybe once a week or even every other week, so that worked out great for me. I wouldn't want to use it like that every day, though.
I'm using 10.1.6. Seems like it's from 2013.
I don't use it often, I use it just to crop PDFs sometimes but mostly I use the free Foxit reader.

How do you use it in a virtual machine? Do you have to download older versions of Mac OS and mount it to a virtual machine? Can you move the old version of Acrobat into the virtual machine?
- - Post merged: - -

Yes, Audacity works fine, BUT checking if an app is 32 or 64 bits is not enough. Audacity relies and uses auxiliary plug-ins to encode/decode, and some of them were 32bit. (Thanks to your posting, I'm checking if EVERY Audacity's component I need and use is now 64bit).
You can take a deeper look about 64bit compatibility with this free app: https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html
I'm staying in Mojave by now, as I can't find anything really new in Catalina, and speed and benchmarks are the same. Why should I dare to upgrade? Just to help Apple at beta-testing to fix what worked OK in Mojave? :confused:
I ran Go64 and the apps that could not work after Catalina would be the following. I noticed that all of it says that it's 64-bit except for (blank):

- BlueStacks (App is 64-bit except for 'aapt')

- Android File Transfer (App is 64 bit except for 'ksinstall')

- Google Drive (App is 64 bit except for 'ksinstall')

- VMWare Fusion (App is 64 bit except for 'mkisofs') (This is an older version of VMWare Fusion that I don't see the use for currently, so I have no problem with not being able to use this app)

- Logic Pro X (App is 64 bit except for 'ConversionHelperService'). When I search Logic Pro X, it says it's compatible with Catalina.

Is there a way to not use the part of the app that is not 64bit and continue to use it after installing Catalina?

I noticed that those are the only ones that have only certain component to them that are not 64bit, but there are many more that is not 64bit at all:

Screenshade (This could be a dealbreaker if I don't find another app as good as this one) App info: version 1.3 (2008) TruTwo Software

doubleTwist

Audacity
 
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mj_

macrumors 6502a
May 18, 2017
818
476
Austin, TX
I'm using 10.1.6. Seems like it's from 2013.
I don't use it often, I use it just to crop PDFs sometimes but mostly I use the free Foxit reader.

How do you use it in a virtual machine? Do you have to download older versions of Mac OS and mount it to a virtual machine? Can you move the old version of Acrobat into the virtual machine?
Yeah that won't run on Catalina for sure. The earliest you can use is Acrobat Professional 2015, and even that has some limitations and restrictions. Basically, the VM idea is to run an older version of macOS inside a virtual machine and install Acrobat within that version of macOS. You will have to purchase additional software though, Parallels or an up-to-date version of VMware Fusion in order to run a macOS Virtual Machine. You could use Oracle VirtualBox to run a Windows VM but that would also require a Windows license of Adobe Acrobat X.
 
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richmlow

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2002
161
51
Hello levmc,


It's true that the screenshot that you posted (from Bugs) illustrates that catastrophic data loss can occur during OS upgrades (or at anytime)!

It's also true that macOS Catalina no longer supports 32-bit programs. Also, macOS Catalina does break some 64-bit programs. Hopefully, the various software companies will offer patches.

For me, I haven't experienced any particular difficulties after migrating to macOS Catalina.

Having said that, let me give some disclaimers and general comments:

1. I put macOS Catalina on my MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2019). It is not a mission-critical machine.

2. For my mission-critical computer (Mac Pro, 2013), I have kept macOS Mojave.

3. In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, I personally don't feel that this is a good time for anyone to be playing
around with unnecessary OS upgrades, etc. Catastrophic data loss, the "bricking" of computers, and other assorted nastiness can impact you significantly during these desperate times of the pandemic.

Just my two cents.....

Good luck and stay healthy! Observe the quarantine.


All the best,
richmlow


A commenter said that if an app isn't made by Apple, there is a good chance that Catalina will break it.

Did anyone have a problem (for example, Audacity, etc) The commenter didn't mention Adobe Acrobat. What about Acrobat, would it still work ok?
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
302
75
Spain
Is there a way to not use the part of the app that is not 64bit and continue to use it after installing Catalina?
In fact, Catalina would run a 64bit app without problem... just losing the 32bit component function, as far as I know. That's why Logic Pro X is Catalina-compatible (if you can live without the systemwide "service"), and so is Audacity also, but perhaps turns a specific conversion impossible...
I don't know about other apps you name... but being 64bit, they're supposed to work.
I'm staying in Mojave because I don't like "to experiment" with my work-tools.

(I just wanted to advise about the way Apple recommends to check app-compatibility when upgrading to Catalina, which seems short-sighted to me).
 

fisherking

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2010
7,127
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ny somewhere
In fact, Catalina would run a 64bit app without problem... just losing the 32bit component function, as far as I know. That's why Logic Pro X is Catalina-compatible (if you can live without the systemwide "service"), and so is Audacity also, but perhaps turns a specific conversion impossible...
I don't know about other apps you name... but being 64bit, they're supposed to work.
I'm staying in Mojave because I don't like "to experiment" with my work-tools.

(I just wanted to advise about the way Apple recommends to check app-compatibility when upgrading to Catalina, which seems short-sighted to me).
logic x's been 64bit for some time, and runs (here) flawlessly in catalina (all my 3rd-party plugins work as well). never used audacity (so can't comment on that).
 
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