Should I Buy an Intel Mac Today or Wait to Buy an Arm-Based Mac?

[ruka.snow]

You can use Parallels to run Windows with the Apple Silicon.

Parallels confirmed this and even in the Apple keynote they showed Parallels running. So that should mean that there is hope that you can still run your windows computer the same way you run parallels now instead of boot camp.

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

I don't see any conformation on that link. I see a lot of replies to people that basically tell them to check the blog over and over again.

 

[nihil0]

I will miss the ability to run Windows but I’m sure there will be quick solutions for the occasional Windows program emulation. My next Mac will definitely be ARM.

Mine too, considering that I bought my current one to last me at least 5-7 years. There will be no new Intel Macs in 2025.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Expect any new Apple product, to get VASTLY better by the time the 2nd and 3rd models come out.
1st model (generally always issues)

Mac mini 1st generation Intel didn't have quality issues.
Neither did the iMac, as far as I can remember.
Or the MacBooks either.
They did have limited future OS support though (only until 10.6.8), possibly due to have a 32bit-CPU only. But then...

2nd model fixes most of these problems, as they HAD to ship the 1st one and could not fix everything before launch so the 2nd one has all the things they really wanted to do with the 1st one.

The 2nd generation Intel Macs with 64bit CPU didn't have much longer support either (10.7 being the end of the line).

3rd model, they'd had time to have a rethink and look at the good and bad points

For the 15in MacBook Pro, the 3rd generation was arguably the worst - since it included the often-failing 8600M GT GeFore chip.

Apple then moved to a new unibody case design beginning in late 2008. And history repeated itself, with the later (3rd generation, depending on how you count) 2011 and 2012 models experiencing astonishingly high rates of GPU failures again.

Point being: While the "skip the 1st, 2nd gen. will be better / more reliable" has become a part of Apple lore, it hasn't proved that reliable in hindsight.

A common refrain in this thread is that "first gen. Apple products suck". But looking back at their releases over the last decade, does the history of these product support that belief? Sure, Butterfly Keyboards were a miss. But:

iPad (2009)

First generation iPad was announced in 2010.
And it was a dud, to be honest.
Severely underequipped in RAM, which resulted in obnoxious reloading of Safari tabs. Also, after being announced in early 2010, 2011's iOS 5 release was already the end of the line - which did limit useful life of the product considerably. Additionally, compared to its successor, the 1st gen iPad's case was extremely clunky and bulky.

The iPad used to be one of the best examples of why it's better to wait for 2nd gen. instead of buying first.

 

[cppguy]

I think they might finish the transition quickly, with the exception of the Mac Pro. All MacBooks are going to be updated within a year.

I'm a developer who definitely needs x86 and Windows in the foreseeable future, so I might just buy the very last Intel 16" MacBook Pro, and I'm sure it'll run for 5-6 years. Who knows what happens after that. In the worst case it'll be hard to sell it used.

The average people shouldn't even worry about this, but if you can wait until January, there will be more hands-on information about the new chip, and how "incredible" it turns out. I expect less throttling, better timed upgrades, tighter control between HW and SW. The first generation may or may not be a dud, no one will know until we look back to it 5 years from now.

If you can wait 2 years, because you just upgraded, then wait. If you have work to do today, then don't wait and don't worry too much.

 

[jlocker]

Mine too, considering that I bought my current one to last me at least 5-7 years. There will be no new Intel Macs in 2025.

Mine will be also in 2025, this will give Apple a good 5 years to work out all the processor design hurdles and OS 11 hurdles. I will be fine with my 2019 MacBook Pro until that date. This is why if you need a new MacBook Pro it is a great time to buy, because, by then all the screaming on Macrumors about processor performance, OS 11 compatibility issues will be all cleared and that system will be rock solid. It is like right now trying to compare a iPhone 1 with a iPhone 6s huge changes between those times. That is why most people were getting a new iPhone every year to keep up

 

[MacBH928]

i cant wait to put an "evil inside" logo on my ARM mac /s

After some research it appears that RISC is not slower than x86 but works differently, I am excited to see macbooks run cool and snappier but i dont think they will be faster than x86. I think they will be slower. Not sure how ARM will benefit desktops though.

If you rely on Macs for work, I wouldnt buy an ARM on for atleast 4 years after release. You never know what could go wrong, let the rich beta testers do the job for you.
[automerge]1594333452[/automerge]

I'm a developer who definitely needs x86 and Windows in the foreseeable future, so I might just buy the very last Intel 16" MacBook Pro, and I'm sure it'll run for 5-6 years. Who knows what happens after that. In the worst case it'll be hard to sell it

wasnt there Windows app emulators for PPC Macs? I feel like they can pull this one and make Windows x86 run in VM. It wont be as fast but working

 

[MallardDuck]

That‘s a lot of assumptions. Here’s what we know....Apple have specifically stated that they are producing a family of CPU’s that will have “incredible” performance. I highly doubt that they will be releasing anything less.

In the SOU video, Apple stated that what they are most excited about is their custom GPU’s and the new levels of performance. In the dev documentation, they specifically state ”don’t assume a dGPU will be faster”.

The migration to ARM mac’s doesn’t just effect the mac market, but adds incentive to also allow for the entire iOS line....an instant 1Bn+ devices that devs can support with literally a flick of a switch in Xcode. This is a whole lot bigger than just the Mac.

True, we're trading getting iphone and ipad apps for windows. Great for consumers. Not so hot for businesses and pros.
[automerge]1594333821[/automerge]

You can use Parallels to run Windows with the Apple Silicon.

Parallels confirmed this and even in the Apple keynote they showed Parallels running. So that should mean that there is hope that you can still run your windows computer the same way you run parallels now instead of boot camp.

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

No, you can't. They were running an ARM build of linux as a guest.

 

[MikeZTM]

True, we're trading getting iphone and ipad apps for windows. Great for consumers. Not so hot for businesses and pros.
[automerge]1594333821[/automerge]


No, you can't. They were running an ARM build of linux as a guest.

Windows does have arm64 version and since 2004 Windows is a KVM friendly OS.
You will have to run emulation for Windows x86 software on a Windows arm64 guest OS but it is 100% possible to run your current software.
[automerge]1594334372[/automerge]

i cant wait to put an "evil inside" logo on my ARM mac /s

After some research it appears that RISC is not slower than x86 but works differently, I am excited to see macbooks run cool and snappier but i dont think they will be faster than x86. I think they will be slower. Not sure how ARM will benefit desktops though.

If you rely on Macs for work, I wouldnt buy an ARM on for atleast 4 years after release. You never know what could go wrong, let the rich beta testers do the job for you.
[automerge]1594333452[/automerge]


wasnt there Windows app emulators for PPC Macs? I feel like they can pull this one and make Windows x86 run in VM. It wont be as fast but working

It's nor RISC/CISC makes a chip fast or slow.
It's the designer and engineers that makes a chip fast or slow.

Apple's ARM is traditionally dramatically faster then everyone else's. And SPEC score already shows it is reaching Intel top desktop parts core by core.

There's no reason Apple can not get faster than Intel performance when the power and heat limit removed.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Judging by the PPC to Intel transition... I'd wait, unless I needed a new Mac NOW or NEEDED Windows.

Why?
Intel Macs were released half way through the Mac OS X Tiger (10.4) life-cycle. So when Tiger came out, only PPC Macs existed (to the public). When the first Intel Macs were released... they shipped with Tiger! Apple said the same thing "Great PPC Macs still in the pipeline... will support for YEARS!!!".
Then 10.5 Leopard dropped... aaaaaaaand it was the last OS to run on PPC. 10.6 Snow Leopard, already Intel Mac exclusive. If they repeated that... then in 3-4 years from now you'd get the last update. Sure... you'll still receive security updates... but that's about it.
Plus no native iOS/iPad OS Apps on your Mac. And no longer the chance to run the latest OS.

If you tend to upgrade your machine every 2-3 years... this won't matter like at all. But for the folks keeping their Macs for like 5-7 years or even longer... I'd wait.

Did Apple really say “we’ll support PowerPC for years” back then too, specifically based on what you said? I find that hard to believe.

 

[damphoose]

Really wish the first one is an entry level model (iBook) instead of a high end (Powerbook / MBP)

I think Apple will want to show the power of the new chips, to get anyone off the fence who is still hesitant. A low end model doesn’t make sense in that case. They want the bottleneck for the transition to be production. They don’t want the bottleneck to be consumer apprehensiveness. Many of the forecasters are saying a Macbook Pro will be the first. Which makes sense given those factors. But to me it, a logical choice would be the Macbook Air. The current model has the heating/throttling problem that should be solved with an ARM chip. (The whole design is built for a chip that intel basically never delivered) It seems like an easy win for Apple as that is the line most in need of getting as fast away from Intel as possible...but hey they didn’t ask me 🤣

 

[Apple_Robert]

If you need or want a new Mac, get one. No sense in waiting as tech is always changing.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Buy what you want, buy what you can afford.

My Mac Pro, 4,1 is still alive, and kicking bits around the internet. Some software doesn't really 'run on it (more like walk) but it still is capable.

Apple took what, 5 years to fully dump the PowerPC chip? Relax...

 

[damphoose]

A common refrain in this thread is that "first gen. Apple products suck". But looking back at their releases over the last decade, does the history of these product support that belief? Sure, Butterfly Keyboards were a miss. But:

• Apple Watch Gen 1 (2015) was great! Was Gen 2 better? Sure, but it was an incremental improvement vs. a redesign.
• Same with Apple Pencil (2015)
• Same with Airpods (2016)
• Magic Trackpad (2010), amazing product! I still use mine today. Was Trackpad 2 five years later better? Absolutely! That's how product cycles work...
• Magic Mouse (2009)
• iPad (2009)
• You basically have to go back to the OG Apple TV (2007) to find a true first gen. flop outside of the Butterfly Keyboard.
• Sure, the OG iPhone (2007) was 2G, and didn't have an app store, but gained that with software in 2008.

The most applicable product to look at is the first generation of Intel Macbooks. The first gen. Intel Macbook (not pro) was my very first Mac, and I had no problems with it in 2006. "Supporting Windows" was the feature that got me to switch, but I (personally) realized I didn't need Windows and 99% of what I needed was available in the Mac ecosystem.

I'm not saying that this transition may not have its problems, but it feels a little unfair to call all first gen. Apple products skippable... Especially when it's not as if these Macs are true "first gen." products. Apple has been making desktops since 1979, and laptops since 1989/1991...

The common refrain is that first gen tends to have unforeseen problems better left to those whose personal or work life would be adversely effected by said problems. Yes there is some hyperbole in the thread (first gen sucks) but most have been appropriately measured and have avoided phrases like that. While the transition to Intel certainly did not suck, the growing pains with Rosetta was real. Many wished they had just waited a year until their day to day software was released in a native Intel version. So no, the sky is not falling but caution is advised.

 

[macduke]

Yeah this has been tormenting me. I almost didn't buy this 2019 5K iMac when it launched last year because I thought ARM was coming Q4 2019. I had a work MacBook Pro but changed jobs and don't have one and have been missing the mobility, even if it's just around the house or outside during the pandemic.

This iMac works perfectly fine and is plenty fast, but the Apple Silicon combined with Mini LED displays is just too good to pass up. I'm also really interested in what they could do with a 14" model and perhaps have a much more powerful Apple Silicon GPU than the integrated Intel crap in the current 13". I feel like it's going to be so much faster and run cooler with longer battery life and love that I'd be able to run some iPhone apps as little utilities on my desktop.

I'd buy a used MBP, but it would have a terrible keyboard, lol. At this point the non-butterfly 2015 is a bit slow for what I need, and the 16" isn't discounted enough used to be worth it. Maybe if we get another round of coronavirus checks, lol.

I also worry about the longevity of buying an Intel Mac this year. I know, as the author referred to, that Apple said years of support or whatever. But how is that quantified? My old 2012 Retina MBP that I gave to my grandpa was just recently obsolete. You're telling me they're still going to be supporting Intel Macs in 2028? Doubt it. I think they only supported PPC Macs for 2-3 years before dropping support, if I remember right. I wasn't a Mac user then, but followed it somewhat on this site before joining in 2007.

 

[Boomish69]

No Intel machine now for me, it’s not just it'll be worthless in a few years, I’m sure it will still work but I rely a lot of third party apps & plugins & I remember the switch to Intel being quite painful! Some developers were quick to update to Intel but then left PowerPC meaning I had to switch much quicker than I thought, some developers didn’t bother updating at all, too expensive I expect, they dumped the app and worked on something new. I expect this coming switch to Apple Silicon to be more of the same, except I wonder how many will charge for the update, how many will bring a new version “Apple Silicon” only, developers need to get paid, I doubt they can afford to do this transition for free & I have lots of plugins that will need updating!
My other concern is what will happen in the future, will Apple restrict apps to the App Store only like an IOS device, the T2 chip in the new Mac Pro has caused quite a few alarming worries along these lines with hardware control. And what worries me most is trust, TI’m Cook 6 months ago at the launch of The Intel New MAC Pro “ I’ve never been more excited the futpure of the Mac” then 6 months later announced he are dropping Intel! & repeated the same line! So glad I didn’t mortgage my house to invest one of those..

 

[damphoose]

Just because you have 1 data-point does not make a trend. Apple has sold 100 million+ Intel Macs, they don't just abandon the entire Bootcamp/Parallels market overnight for no reason.

As someone who uses Bootcamp/Parallels...Apple rightfully is not thinking about us. We are in the extreme minority to the point if being irrelevant to Apple future chip plans. Apple knows exactly how many of us are out there.
Apple will sell many more new Macs with Apple silicone than the current userbase.

I use a proprietary windows only set of software for work so I will be somewhat inconvenienced by this transition but I will be fine.
[automerge]1594338740[/automerge]

What bothers me is what happens to the computer when Apple stops supporting it. Will there be other OS’s that can be installed to keep the hardware and software secure?

Apple will not stop supporting it for about 7 years (maintenance updates). Which is normal even without a CPU transition. Let’s say if history holds you get 3 OS upgrades before the OS stops supporting the Intel chips. Your mac will not bust into flames on that day. It will continue to work just fine just without any new features that comes from “MacOs Fisherman’s Wharf“ or whatever the OS will be called in 3 years.

 

[Ecoli_Spewy]

"If you don't need to buy a new Mac right away, and the idea of ‌Apple Silicon‌ excites you, it might be worth holding out for a little longer".

Mmmm.... that smooth slippery Apple silicon. Maybe its best to wait for the quantum processor and get some real speed when launching my web browser.

 

[Plutonius]

The PowerPC had VirtualPC, which emulated Intel on a Mac. Its speed was roughly half native.

It's not the way that I remembered it.

VirtualPC was very slow.

 

[damphoose]

Did Apple really say “we’ll support PowerPC for years” back then too, specifically based on what you said? I find that hard to believe.

Yes. But to be fair they did support Power PC for years. But what I think you’re asking about is new Power PC’s. Jobs said “we have a lot of great Power PC’s in the pipeline”. After that they shipped only one single new” PowerPC. (Youtube link start watching at 58:00) Of course they continued to sell current models but after Jobs said that at WWDC in mid year, and they only shipped a single G5 then went dark until January 2006 when they started shipping Intel Macs. They never shipped another new Power PC after that.

Mac transition to Intel processors - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of Mac models - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[c.carroll@mac.c]

Duplicate

 

[DQ11]

The upcoming gains for Apple Silicone must be substantial for them to pull the trigger now. I remember when the G4/G5 chips were compared to the first Core Duos - the increase in performance was huge! Once every 10 years or so there is a huge jump in speed vs power usage and I'd put my money on this being one of those times.

I'm wondering if the first gen in the imacs will be enough right away.

The 10th gen intel i9 should be enough for me for years, and then once I do go ARM, it will be like the 4-5th gen ARM and should at that point have a ton of advancements and be a better all around chip for my money.

I just want some news about it Now!...lol

 

[kwikdeth]

Power Mac G5 Quad got one major OS update. One. It was a $3K+ machine at the time.
I wouldn't bet the farm on long term support for Intel Macs. This is a company that drives profits by new hardware sales. Sure, the machines will be "good" for ages, but Apple will start dropping support first chance they get.

 

[c.carroll@mac.c]

I just ordered a loaded MBP, mostly for video and photo editing and to play around with music recording. I need to run Windows, mostly to upgrade firmware on electronic components and to run some old windows only software that I still find useful. My new MBP has a 4TB drive, so I haven’t decided if I should run a boot camp slice or a virtual machine for Windows.

My daily computing is mostly on an iPad, but I’m looking forward to running Sidecar for photo and video editing on my new MBP otherwise I’d have stuck with my ancient 17 inch MBP that I upgraded to SSD a couple of years ago. I plan on installing Coreldraw 2020, FinalCut and Logic To take advantage of the new hardware.

I was really excited about the ARM Macs, but I wanted to see how the transition went and figured it would be three years before all the bugs were worked out between Apple and their software partners.

I’m sure the new ARM Macs will be amazing, but I tend to be a little conservative on changes like this. I usually prefer evolutionary to revolutionary change.

 

[GoodWheaties]

On Intel based Macs; you can install Windows, Linux and BSD among many other operating systems.

Right. I should have clarified I was talking about Apple Silicon Macs.

 

[Velendris]

Personally, I recently bought the 2020 MacBook Pro 13" so I'm waiting. However, unless I was desperate for an upgrade I'd wait until it went through at least one refresh or update.

I love Apple don't get me wrong, but I usually don't buy the first version of something such as the original Apple Watch.