Should I get the 768GB SSD if I can afford it?

[inscrewtable]

I really hope the new iMacs have better heat management, so far the reviews I've read are saying that they are indeed cooler than previous generations.

Heat management is a bit overblown on the (2011) iMac, working hard in 30ºC ambient temperatures I don't see anything over 70ºC at a worst case. That is not a problem at all for a desktop.

Sure the back can get a bit hot but it's a frikken heat sink, that's what it's meant to do, I don't think some people understand this concept. If it had a plastic back then it would be cooler to touch, plastic being the good insulator that it is, but somehow I don't think that would be a very good idea.

 

[53x12]

Heat management is a bit overblown on the (2011) iMac, working hard in 30ºC ambient temperatures I don't see anything over 70ºC at a worst case. That is not a problem at all for a desktop.

Sure the back can get a bit hot but it's a frikken heat sink, that's what it's meant to do, I don't think some people understand this concept. If it had a plastic back then it would be cooler to touch, plastic being the good insulator that it is, but somehow I don't think that would be a very good idea.

Aluminum casing acting as a heat sink is a myth. Talk about false information

Here's an article explaining the myth:

http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=71


Basically, airflow and the quality of the heatsinks are what truly play a role in temperatures. If your iMac feels very hot, it is largely a reflection of the internal temps of the iMac. There are no heatpipes or thermal compound connecting the processors or ram of the iMac that connects them to the casing of the iMac. So there is no real way for the heat to truly be transferred to the casing of the iMac. The processors have their own heat sinks. Once the heat is transferred to the heatsink, the airflow exhausts the heat off the heatsink and then later outside of the iMac through the vents. If your iMac feels very hot, it is largely a reflection of the internal temps of the iMac.

Notice when a MacBook Pro feels very hot, the gpu and CPU tempuratures are usually pretty high. If the casing were truly acting as a heatsink and taking in all the heat, the CPU and GPU temps would never have been that high in the first place. Again, how hot the casing feels is usually an indicator of the internal temps.

It would be interesting to compare same year iMac's one with an aluminum body vs one with a polycarbonate body. Look at internal temps and case temps.

 

[Flukem]

For reference here's the disk speed test of the 2012 iMac with the following config. The ram has been bumped up to 32GB.

3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM-2X4GB
768GB Flash Storage
NVIDIAGeFrc GTX 680MX 2G GDDR5

 

[snugja]

For reference here's the disk speed test of the 2012 iMac with the following config. The ram has been bumped up to 32GB.

3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM-2X4GB
768GB Flash Storage
NVIDIAGeFrc GTX 680MX 2G GDDR5

NICE! Even more excited to get mine with the same config!

 

[Aluminum213]

99% of users won't be using over 128GBs of space of EVERYDAY use


think about that before spending crazy amount for that 728GB SSD, also wait for teardown to see if the mechanical HD of the fusion can be replaced with an SSD

 

[inscrewtable]

...

Originally Posted by nutritious
Aluminum casing acting as a heat sink is a myth. Talk about false information

Here's an article explaining the myth:

It's not rocket science, it's simple physics, the air inside the mac heats up, which heats up a the very large surface area of the back of the iMac which btw having a textured surface has an increased surface area.

Since the back is in contact with the outside ambient air, then according to the second law of thermodynamics the heat will flow from the back to the air which will dissipate it throughout the room.

The back is indeed a heat sink up until the point where the room it is in is the same temperature as the back, however the fans would also not work in this instance.

The back is a heat sink whether it was designed that way or not, no matter what the article says the back cannot but be a heat sink. It is a physical impossibility for the back to not transfer heat away from the computer.

Think about this, if you cover the back of the imac with some insulating foam, leaving a slot for the air vents, do you think it will increase the temperature or not?

This is the first sentence from the "article"

Introduction-

I read a lot of different online forums and PC enthusiast sites daily.

Here's something to think about, why doesn't my raw drive which is exposed to the air while sitting in my HDD dock, need a fan. Because it does not heat up, why is this? because the case being exposed directly to the air, is a heat sink. It may not mean to be but it is anyway.

 

[snugja]

99% of users won't be using over 128GBs of space of EVERYDAY use


think about that before spending crazy amount for that 728GB SSD, also wait for teardown to see if the mechanical HD of the fusion can be replaced with an SSD

If he can afford it, ANYWAYS I don't see the big deal. Just enjoy what you have and move on.

 

[vannibombonato]

For reference here's the disk speed test of the 2012 iMac with the following config. The ram has been bumped up to 32GB.

3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM-2X4GB
768GB Flash Storage
NVIDIAGeFrc GTX 680MX 2G GDDR5

And these are the speed test obtained with a couple of external
SSDs via thunderbolt, on a MBAir with 4gb. 33% more space, 33% less money, 55% more speed.

 

[snugja]

And these are the speed test obtained with a couple of external
SSDs via thunderbolt, on a MBAir with 4gb. 33% more space, 33% less money, 55% more speed.

33% more hassle.

 

[vannibombonato]

33% more hassle.

A 2 minute hassle indeed.

 

[atteligibility]

-The cost for the SSD is ridiculous yes, but if you work professionally its all deductable. And you can sell the machine and buy a new one in a couple of years, with profit!

umm.... Could you explain your trick?
Either I am not following, otherwise you might want to talk to your CPA, haha...

 

[snugja]

A 2 minute hassle indeed.

Some people prefer to really have an all in one machine with just the one cable. To each their own. Excited to get mine with the SSD.

 

[iMcLovin]

umm.... Could you explain your trick?
Either I am not following, otherwise you might want to talk to your CPA, haha...

Ill be happy to explain deductible, at least in my country means you get the vat back and you don't need to pay tax (which is 50% if I'd take the money as salary. Vat here is 25%. So that means the machine cost me 1/3 of the price compared to what I would get using the money for something non deductible.
I bought the machine with apple care, so it will be easy to sell it for half the price 2 years from now. Overall then I've sold the machine for more money than it cost me. So when I then buy a new machine I will end up getting a brand new iMac and still have a profit from the old machine.

 

[atteligibility]

Ill be happy to explain deductible, at least in my country means you get the vat back and you don't need to pay tax (which is 50% if I'd take the money as salary. Vat here is 25%. So that means the machine cost me 1/3 of the price compared to what I would get using the money for something non deductible.
I bought the machine with apple care, so it will be easy to sell it for half the price 2 years from now. Overall then I've sold the machine for more money than it cost me. So when I then buy a new machine I will end up getting a brand new iMac and still have a profit from the old machine.

Well, not sure what your country law is.
But in most reasonable countries, any deductions you get as part of a professional purchase, you get the reverse addition when you sell back.
Now most people claiming this kind of deduction schemes always decide to forget or not understand the second part, and only claim the deduction

Now I have got an idea, why don't you buy 100 iMacs (to begin with) and sell them all back tomorrow (well or in January when they ship ). That seems like a great business model!

 

[Vandefilm]

And these are the speed test obtained with a couple of external
SSDs via thunderbolt, on a MBAir with 4gb. 33% more space, 33% less money, 55% more speed.

I'm thinking of buying a 2011 imac with SSD over thunderbolt. Can you recommend a good SSD HD? I'm happy with 256 gigs.

 

[iMcLovin]

Well, not sure what your country law is.
But in most reasonable countries, any deductions you get as part of a professional purchase, you get the reverse addition when you sell back.
Now most people claiming this kind of deduction schemes always decide to forget or not understand the second part, and only claim the deduction

Now I have got an idea, why don't you buy 100 iMacs (to begin with) and sell them all back tomorrow (well or in January when they ship ). That seems like a great business model!

Well yeah I do understand that this would be illegal. So well yeah maybe there won't be much profit but there won't be much of a loss either. For me ill probably give it to my kids in a couple of years though... The price is still low when everything is deducted.
In my country giving it away isn't illegal. Of course I could never buy 100 imacs and sell them... The investments needs to make sense company wise. One machine every second-third year make sense.

 

[vannibombonato]

I'm thinking of buying a 2011 imac with SSD over thunderbolt. Can you recommend a good SSD HD? I'm happy with 256 gigs.

I've gone with the lacies ssd little big disk. With one you get the speeds of the new internaln imac ssd, with two daisy chained the speeds I've reported. You can obviously add later as needed, one of the beauties of thunderbolt.

 

[apedance]

Now I have got an idea, why don't you buy 100 iMacs (to begin with) and sell them all back tomorrow (well or in January when they ship ). That seems like a great business model!

mmhhhmmm!

 

[atteligibility]

Well yeah I do understand that this would be illegal. So well yeah maybe there won't be much profit but there won't be much of a loss either. For me ill probably give it to my kids in a couple of years... The price is still low when everything is deducted.

Well... all I am saying, as long as you know you're bending the law here...

If you sell it back, you would lose the benefits of the deductions, by having to pay taxes on the sale of your asset (since it is professional, it would be treated as a sale, you would pay income tax on this)

If you were to "give it to your kids", that wouldn't be professional, so at some point the asset would move from your company to your kids. That transaction should also be recorded. Not sure what your country is, but most accounting standards would treat that transaction at market value, you would then have to pay the reverse taxes of what you benefited based on that market value.

but anyway, all I wanna say is, if you decide to ignore that part of the story, you may want to keep it for yourself (and not advise others to do the same...)

----------

mmhhhmmm!

that might slow down deliveries for everybody...

 

[iMcLovin]

Sure thanks for the tip, probably not a good idea making a point when I'm not sure what is legal or not . From what I understand, marketing value for used computers drop fast. Anyway, I have an accountant so ill make sure everything is done in a proper legal fashion when that time comes for me. Who knows, maybe this machine is so great ill not need to swap in a long time. Right now I'm on a early 2009 iMac, and it has kept me happy nearly 4 years - it's only the last 6 months were iv'e felt a strong need for more juice.

 

[atteligibility]

Sure thanks for the tip, probably not a good idea making a point when I'm not sure what is legal or not . From what I understand, marketing value for used computers drop fast. Anyway, I have an accountant so ill make sure everything is done in a proper legal fashion when that time comes for me. Who knows, maybe this machine is so great ill not need to swap in a long time. Right now I'm on a early 2009 iMac, and it has kept me happy nearly 4 years - it's only the last 6 months were iv'e felt a strong need for more juice.

Yep it's quite amazing how I remember having to change machines every year 10-15 years ago, those things can last a pretty long time these days. Good thing though, those things aren't cheap..

 

[iMcLovin]

Yep it's quite amazing how I remember having to change machines every year 10-15 years ago, those things can last a pretty long time these days. Good thing though, those things aren't cheap..

Yeah, it's kinda strange, how right now I can't image I would ever need more than 32gb of ram and 768SSD. The tasks I've done on my current imac with 8gb or ram is probably as heavy tasks I'll ever do - and it managed. Except opening the images took abou 15 mins and 30 mins to save. But it worked. So, now with an ssd and 32 gb ram, would I ever need more. Except, 3 years from now you'll probably get 3tb of SSD with twice the speed and 256gb of ram would cost a dime. So, luckily for us, the consumers, technology it catching up faster than what we actually need....unless this will be the last imacs

 

[comatory]

To answer the original question: Depends on how much you value your money.

For that SSD add-on you could take a really cool vacation somewhere in Asia and still come back with some money.

Also, do you have Apple Care? Because if you don't, imagine the SSD failing a year from now on, will you have the same money to replace it? I don't think 768GB SSDs will come down in price too much in one year.

I know I wouldn't buy it. 1TB Fusion sounds much more sensible, maybe wait for a teardown and when the warranty runs out I'd pay someone to put cheap 256GB SSD + HDD in there.

The prices are obnoxious. Someone can justify the expense but I can't. If I were earning substantial amount of money with the machine, then I wouldn't hesitate and treat myself.
For home use? Why?

EDIT: Totally forgot about Thunderbolt. In that case I'd get just simple HDD and put SSD in Thunderbolt (or even USB3) chassis. You can get one of those "backpacks" for the iMac to hide the chassis behind the computer. There you go: cheap and bootable SSD drive.

 

[Yougotcarved]

IMHO no.

Unless you have >128gb of hot data (and i very much doubt 99% of people do), the Fusion drive will be just as fast for the vast majority of what you do.

I disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's how I see it:

If I'm playing a game, whenever there's a cutscene, I'm only really going to view it once, maybe twice if I fail the mission. So Fusion would dictate each cutscene is not used frequently enough for SSD (the ars article implied 4 uses of a block counts as "frequent"). So doesn't this mean for the whole game I will be experiencing HDD levels of speed on the cutscenes, as by the time Fusion moves the cutscene onto the SSD I won't ever see it again? And what if I don't go to an area of the map alot, it will get demoted to the HDD and suddenly if I go into that area the texture loading will grind to HDD levels of speed?

It just seems like it will be forever playing catchup. What happens if I don't use iTunes alot but then suddenly I need to go in and copy a bunch of songs over? Or if I don't use photoshop often but i need to do a 5 minute touch-up of a photo? For all these tasks they will be HDD levels of speed. I know it sounds silly because if you don't use the apps much then a delay everytime you use them won't be too bad, but the point is I'd much rather be able to control where my things are saved (or better yet have everything on flash). I want all my apps on the SSD and all my media on my HDD which makes the most sense. However Fusion seems like it would rather put a big movie I watch often on the HDD than a program I use infrequently, even though I wouldn't notice the difference watching a movie off an SSD but would massively notice the difference in speed if the program was on the SSD>
.

 

[WilliamG]

And these are the speed test obtained with a couple of external
SSDs via thunderbolt, on a MBAir with 4gb. 33% more space, 33% less money, 55% more speed.

Awesome. I don't see why anyone would spend $1300 on the 768GB SSD internal, unless you're very, very rich. Even then, a Thunderbolt array = miles faster, no hassle, and with any smart hiding option (I love my Twelve South Backpacks), the best way to go about things.

----------

I disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's how I see it:

If I'm playing a game, whenever there's a cutscene, I'm only really going to view it once, maybe twice if I fail the mission. So Fusion would dictate each cutscene is not used frequently enough for SSD (the ars article implied 4 uses of a block counts as "frequent"). So doesn't this mean for the whole game I will be experiencing HDD levels of speed on the cutscenes, as by the time Fusion moves the cutscene onto the SSD I won't ever see it again? And what if I don't go to an area of the map alot, it will get demoted to the HDD and suddenly if I go into that area the texture loading will grind to HDD levels of speed?

It just seems like it will be forever playing catchup. What happens if I don't use iTunes alot but then suddenly I need to go in and copy a bunch of songs over? Or if I don't use photoshop often but i need to do a 5 minute touch-up of a photo? For all these tasks they will be HDD levels of speed. I know it sounds silly because if you don't use the apps much then a delay everytime you use them won't be too bad, but the point is I'd much rather be able to control where my things are saved (or better yet have everything on flash). I want all my apps on the SSD and all my media on my HDD which makes the most sense. However Fusion seems like it would rather put a big movie I watch often on the HDD than a program I use infrequently, even though I wouldn't notice the difference watching a movie off an SSD but would massively notice the difference in speed if the program was on the SSD>
.

Welcome to the reasoning behind my not using Fusion, and going with straight SSD always. I don't want to click something and wonder if it will be miserably slow loading, or blazing fast.