Should I wait for Gainestown?

[KBS756]

I need help deciding whether i should go out and drop 6,000 (more if need be I have a good deal of savings from my work and an arrangement with my dad) on a high spec mac pro now or wait till the nehalem based xeons come out for the mac pro.

I need a computer to render complex 3d animations as well as videos as my work is expanding and my macbook pro takes far too long to carry out these tasks.

And my dad is willing to fund my buying a high spec mac pro (on the condition that i make him 1000 photorealistic 3d models of diamond jewelry, a time limited offer though)

So anyway what would u advise doing ? waiting for nehalem to come out on the mac pro or going out and buying one now? (i really dont wanna go out and buy something and then have it be outdated by a whole generation in less then 6 months)

also what would u term to be decent specs for a mac pro to run HEAVY 3ds max renderings, final cut pro in hd video edditing, adobe after effects. and programs such as these?

is a quadro video card really worth it (one of my friends told me it would make my renderings several times faster) ? and does anyone know if the next generation of mac pros will have a 5800 instead of a 5600

also i know noone knows for sure and there are some estimates around but do u guys thing a nehalem mac pro would be available by around june? (and would snow leopard be out by this point?)

Thanks in advance, i did search for some answers but sorry if i repeated some questions that have already been answered by search.

 

[bozz2006]

yes

 

[frimple]

I need help deciding whether i should go out and drop 6,000 (more if need be I have a good deal of savings from my work and an arrangement with my dad) on a high spec mac pro now or wait till the nehalem based xeons come out for the mac pro.

This is actually an easy question to answer if you look at the math of the situation.

Let's look at the value of your investment. Computer equipment, just like cars, lose the most value as soon as you buy them brand new. I would put a fair market value on a $6k new Mac Pro at ~$4,500 (this is the value you would get if you were selling it back into the marketplace today... correct me if you think I'm wrong, but check Ebay). Let's take 15% off of that for when the new version hits the market so we're looking at $3,825 in ~6 months. This could be lower or higher but I feel it's in the ballpark.

Assuming that you're going to be making money with this computer (that you cannot make without it) this is an easy equation.

6,000 + 2,175 (devaluation) = 6 months work

If this rings true and you cannot preform the work without the computer then I would say pull the trigger. However, you need to make (profit that can be re-invested) $2,175 with this computer.

If you can do the work now that $2,175 changes from total profit that you can make to total difference in profit by being able to do things XX% faster than your current setup.

Plug in your own numbers, but the important part to focus on is the fair market value of your asset.

 

[TrapOx]

Yes, wait. The performance difference will be significant.

 

[KBS756]

THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER

can someone answer this part plz

is a quadro video card really worth it (one of my friends told me it would make my renderings several times faster) ? and does anyone know if the next generation of mac pros will have a 5800 instead of a 5600

i do 3d rendering thought id try an core i7 windows comp 2.9 ghz to see how fast it is ... projected time = 3 days... so i think id need more power (and patience, returned the comp thought id get a cheap stopgap for at least 3d)
anyway also use it for video editin after effects and several other things as i have mentioned before.

is a quadro card worth it?

thanks again for ur replies and thx in advance for any help u can be

 

[Umbongo]

So anyway what would u advise doing ? waiting for nehalem to come out on the mac pro or going out and buying one now? (i really dont wanna go out and buy something and then have it be outdated by a whole generation in less then 6 months)

also what would u term to be decent specs for a mac pro to run HEAVY 3ds max renderings, final cut pro in hd video edditing, adobe after effects. and programs such as these?

The 8 core 2.8GHz would be fine, with 10GB of memory (buy 8 GB 3rd party), and four fast drives raided together and a suitable external backup system. The 3.2GHz would give you some time back (for every 8 hours a 2.8GHz Mac Pro would take to process a task a 3.2GHz would do the task in roughly 7 hours).

is a quadro video card really worth it (one of my friends told me it would make my renderings several times faster) ? and does anyone know if the next generation of mac pros will have a 5800 instead of a 5600

A Quadro helps with the viewport which is the real time rendering of the model as you work on it. The 5600 (and 5800) are designed for very complex projects and you likely don't needthe power. You will actually find that a lot of people use 8800 series cards for 3DS max as it can use Direct3D instead of OpenGL. I believe the Radeon HD 3870 which is available 3rd party for the Mac Pro is a better card for 3DS if using OpenGL, not sure about D3D. Quadros don't help with the final rendering of a model, that is all processor.

also i know noone knows for sure and there are some estimates around but do u guys thing a nehalem mac pro would be available by around june? (and would snow leopard be out by this point?)

We really don't know. June is just the best guess based on the information we do have.

If I were in your situation I'd probably try and get a refurb 8 core 2.8Ghz, buy 8GB of memory and the HD 3870 from OWC for a total of ~$2,800. Then decide which drives you want (there are several threads on the front page of this forum) and see how you get on. If it isn't enough 6 months down the line then sell it and buy a Nehalem system, having first hand experience of the hardware you need. You'd probably lose a few hundred dollars at most on resale. If you buy a 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM and the FX 5600 and then never use all that power you've wasted a lot of money, if you decide to sell to get something more suitable you'll lose a lot of money.

Don't under estimate how powerful the lower end components are

 

[KBS756]

The 8 core 2.8GHz would be fine, with 10GB of memory (buy 8 GB 3rd party), and four fast drives raided together and a suitable external backup system. The 3.2GHz would give you some time back (for every 8 hours a 2.8GHz Mac Pro would take to process a task a 3.2GHz would do the task in roughly 7 hours).



A Quadro helps with the viewport which is the real time rendering of the model as you work on it. The 5600 (and 5800) are designed for very complex projects and you likely don't needthe power. You will actually find that a lot of people use 8800 series cards for 3DS max as it can use Direct3D instead of OpenGL. I believe the Radeon HD 3870 which is available 3rd party for the Mac Pro is a better card for 3DS if using OpenGL, not sure about D3D. Quadros don't help with the final rendering of a model, that is all processor.



We really don't know. June is just the best guess based on the information we do have.

If I were in your situation I'd probably try and get a refurb 8 core 2.8Ghz, buy 8GB of memory and the HD 3870 from OWC for a total of ~$2,800. Then decide which drives you want (there are several threads on the front page of this forum) and see how you get on. If it isn't enough 6 months down the line then sell it and buy a Nehalem system, having first hand experience of the hardware you need. You'd probably lose a few hundred dollars at most on resale. If you buy a 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM and the FX 5600 and then never use all that power you've wasted a lot of money, if you decide to sell to get something more suitable you'll lose a lot of money.

Don't under estimate how powerful the lower end components are

THANKS

does a quadro have any effect in video rendering or is video rendering also solely pegged upon processor? or does video card play a role there?

thanks for the advice i have a friend who has a mac pro with stats like that guess i may see if he will help me with rendering the files i need until the new mac pro comes out (hope its june and not a long wait)

 

[jjahshik32]

Definitely wait, basically Gainstown is the next generation computer.

 

[twig16]

Absolutely

If you wait a year there will be a faster model.
If you wait two years there will be an even faster and more advanced model.
If you wait 15 years ...


Seriously, if you need to do work NOW, get the current model and get to work. Follow Umbongo's advice. Buy a refurb and save $400. Upgrade the hardware yourself (rather than through Apple) and save thousands. Invest in additions that can be ported to your next new machine (like a nice external raid array).

then in 2010 you can sell it without taking much of a hit if you need more speed.

 

[KBS756]

kk so well heres where things stand now
dad basically forcing me to buy now because he wants me to make 3d models of his jewelry and render em (and i sorta need it for very intense 3d animation for some sites ima doin).

so this is what i am thinking to do

buy a refurb mac pro
$4099
3.2ghz
500 gb
2 gb (to which ill buy ram elsewhere and add)
nvidia 8800gt

and a refurbed apple cinema display

basically around 6100 before tax

(and in a lil while after i feel i can take the hit for selling it to upgrade i will [ill prob have the money in a couple months to do it just not the stomach to throw more money into it so soon])

just some questions about this course of action though

1. is there anythin bad about buying either a display or mac pro refurb
2. does anyone know how much id loose trying to sell the mac pro back on ebay in say 6 months if i find i need to upgrade?
3. just in general if u have any other suggestions

thanks in advance

 

[jjahshik32]

Yes.

 

[Umbongo]

1. is there anythin bad about buying either a display or mac pro refurb
2. does anyone know how much id loose trying to sell the mac pro back on ebay in say 6 months if i find i need to upgrade?

1. No.
2. Depends on buyer awareness, but assuming most people are clued up then $600-$1100.

 

[dr. shdw]

If you wait a year there will be a faster model.
If you wait two years there will be an even faster and more advanced model.
If you wait 15 years ...


Seriously, if you need to do work NOW, get the current model and get to work. Follow Umbongo's advice. Buy a refurb and save $400. Upgrade the hardware yourself (rather than through Apple) and save thousands. Invest in additions that can be ported to your next new machine (like a nice external raid array).

then in 2010 you can sell it without taking much of a hit if you need more speed.

But not every year is there a major architectural change..

 

[jjahshik32]

But not every year is there a major architectural change..

Yup, basically the next generation of computers.

 

[KBS756]

thanks for your help

if i do this what is the wireless card or add on i get for a mac pro (dont wanna run a 40 ft cable to router)

thanks in advance

 

[indiochano]

you have 3-4 months to wait....

if you can wait that long, wait.

if not, obviously buy it now...

but, being so close to the launch date, id go for waiting IMHO...

 

[bearcatrp]

Just to give you an idea on processing time difference between a 2ghz quad core mac pro w/8gb ram vs my new 2.8 octo mac pro w/10gb ram. Using handbrak to encode a 680gb movie to avi, the 2ghz took a little over 20 minutes. The 2.8 took a little over 4 minutes. I think the current generation mac pro will server you well. I debated the same but decided to let the folks with deep pockets work out the bugs on the new mac pro's and buy a refurb 2.8. Couldn't be happier. If you can money now with the current generation, get it. Upgrade in a couple years.

 

[dr. shdw]

Just to give you an idea on processing time difference between a 2ghz quad core mac pro w/8gb ram vs my new 2.8 octo mac pro w/10gb ram. Using handbrak to encode a 680gb movie to avi, the 2ghz took a little over 20 minutes. The 2.8 took a little over 4 minutes. I think the current generation mac pro will server you well. I debated the same but decided to let the folks with deep pockets work out the bugs on the new mac pro's and buy a refurb 2.8. Couldn't be happier. If you can money now with the current generation, get it. Upgrade in a couple years.

Heh 680gb..

 

[Dr.Pants]

and a refurbed apple cinema display

Well, before you buy your display, do some research - I got something larger for the same price as a refurb off of eBay. The Doublesight DS-263N, in my opinion, is better then the ACD 23" (If that's what you're going for), but ONLY if it has the polarizer (which mine has... ). Sucks that only one production run had them....

But basically, I think you need an IPS monitor for your work for colour accuracy. Read up on reveiws, that's the best advice I can give. Anandtech and hardforum have some people who really know their displays, and just give them your line of work and a price point, they'll churn out a response.

Another peice of advice I can give is do not get a TN display. Due to the fact that it cannot display the entirity of the colour gamut (or what-have-you), it dithers (i.e., displays one colour in one frame, and another colour in the next to get the "correct" colour). I think my TN panel is why I need glasses for driving....

BTW, in case you didn't know, the ACD 23" should be an IPS panel. Still, do your research.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

tallest skill has a really good post with lots of info on the next mac pro. I'm on my phone right now so if someone would provide a link for the op that would help!

 

[Tallest Skil]

tallest skill has a really good post with lots of info on the next mac pro. I'm on my phone right now so if someone would provide a link for the op that would help!

Here we go. Thanks for the support!

 

[KBS756]

Well, before you buy your display, do some research - I got something larger for the same price as a refurb off of eBay. The Doublesight DS-263N, in my opinion, is better then the ACD 23" (If that's what you're going for), but ONLY if it has the polarizer (which mine has... ). Sucks that only one production run had them....

But basically, I think you need an IPS monitor for your work for colour accuracy. Read up on reveiws, that's the best advice I can give. Anandtech and hardforum have some people who really know their displays, and just give them your line of work and a price point, they'll churn out a response.

Another peice of advice I can give is do not get a TN display. Due to the fact that it cannot display the entirity of the colour gamut (or what-have-you), it dithers (i.e., displays one colour in one frame, and another colour in the next to get the "correct" colour). I think my TN panel is why I need glasses for driving....

BTW, in case you didn't know, the ACD 23" should be an IPS panel. Still, do your research.

thanks for all the replies guys..

i am becoming more and more sure of the fact i cannot wait every day even though i know thats the smarter thing to do with tech ... but i got some heavy 3d work and other work i have to do (tons of lights motion animation) as well as video editing ect and its on me now so i guess ill have to take the hit when upgrading

got a couple questions about doing this though

1. anything wrong with getting a 30in apple cinema display refurbished?
2. how would i add wireless to a mac pro (not from apple but myself)?
3. does about 12 gb of ram for this 6x2gb for around 500ish sound good ram or is there somewhere else where i could get this cheaper?
4. has anyone installed and run windows 7 on a mac pro (if so anyone have any problems doing so)?

I am almost sure I am going to buy a refurb now and wait 6months to a year to upgrade (or maybe even keep the refurb and buy a second one if i find the need for it).

thanks for all the help everyone has been.

 

[TrapOx]

tallest skill has a really good post with lots of guessing on the next mac pro.

I corrected that statement for you.

 

[dr. shdw]

thanks for all the replies guys..

i am becoming more and more sure of the fact i cannot wait every day even though i know thats the smarter thing to do with tech ... but i got some heavy 3d work and other work i have to do (tons of lights motion animation) as well as video editing ect and its on me now so i guess ill have to take the hit when upgrading

got a couple questions about doing this though

1. anything wrong with getting a 30in apple cinema display refurbished?
2. how would i add wireless to a mac pro (not from apple but myself)?
3. does about 12 gb of ram for this 6x2gb for around 500ish sound good ram or is there somewhere else where i could get this cheaper?
4. has anyone installed and run windows 7 on a mac pro (if so anyone have any problems doing so)?

I am almost sure I am going to buy a refurb now and wait 6months to a year to upgrade (or maybe even keep the refurb and buy a second one if i find the need for it).

thanks for all the help everyone has been.

Have you tried using the SEARCH feature?