Actually, there's a really interesting article in the Guardian last Saturday which proposes that Chinese labourers actually have better labour rights than British workers!!yg17 said:China has labor laws? It doesn't seem like Apple is abusing anything.
Ummm... OK. You realize of course that almost every electronic device you own has Foxconn components inside it? That'll include your TV, your clock-radio, your microwave, certainly your car and possibly your washing machine as well. Generally, wherever a cable plugs into a socket, the likelihood is that Foxconn made the socket. Look at the label on the inside collar of your shirt - it will say Malaysia, Vietnam or China... made under the same or worse factory conditions. Even if you choose sustainable forest lumber from North America, the nails you use to build your house out of likely came from China.princealfie said:I would stop buying Apple products if nothing changes. Globalization is bad...
A rather vague and emotive way of putting it.jacobj said:I would really love to know what people think of Apple using a company in China that has abused its staff by overworking them. Please answer honestly and remain anonymous if you like.
Surely that is just being defeatist. We appear to accept any moral deviation as long as it is not too extreme. We justify our apathy by arguing that the problem is so widespread that we are powerless to do anything about it. We argue that we cannot directly make any difference, but it is because we all believe this that none of us do anything and the power of the masses is lost. We have become the ideal consumers and, more worryingly, we have become the mindless masses. For those of us that have some intellectual capacity we satisfy ourselves with pseudo intellectual passtimes. We are becoming everything that Orwell warned us against and yet we do not care because we have been convinced that any reference to Orwell is a cliche and therefore we discard it. Orwell failed to foresee his own pastiche and therefore he has become sterile.jsw said:I chose "NO: I don't really care" because, honestly, I don't. I could have picked "NO: I am concerned but will let others punish them" but I suppose what's closest to what I really feel is "NO: I don't really care because others will punish the OEM suppliers if need be."
I think it's naive to assume that any other manufacturer doesn't use OEM suppliers which do the same thing. I won't stop buying Apple products because of it. If they were grinding small children up to make the casings or whatever, then, yes, maybe I'd care, but, as it stands, nothing I do will stop those workers from being abused by that company. If I stop buying Apple and buy some other supplier's system, then I have no proof whatsoever that such a purchase will in any way reduce any sort of labor abuse.
To think that not buying Apple products will (a) alter Apple's opinion at all and/or (b) will in any way positively affect those workers is wishful thinking.
Absolutely. However, this whole case, with Apple and iPod as massive as they are in the consumer eye, could prove a substantial wake up call for Apple and it's competitors, just like Nike and Gap have had with similar issues.canadaRAM said:Ummm... OK. You realize of course that almost every electronic device you own has Foxconn components inside it? That'll include your TV, your clock-radio, your microwave, certainly your car and possibly your washing machine as well. Generally, wherever a cable plugs into a socket, the likelihood is that Foxconn made the socket. Look at the label on the inside collar of your shirt - it will say Malaysia, Vietnam or China... made under the same or worse factory conditions. Even if you choose sustainable forest lumber from North America, the nails you use to build your house out of likely came from China.
Yeah, but I don't miss paying $6000 for a Mac.Dont Hurt Me said:Voted No, but this is what Apple gets for going made in China along with all the many,many problems they have had from made in China by someone making 50 bucks a mionth. Shame on Apple. Bring back the California made Mac. What a bunch of greedy bastards those Apple corporate types. Building Communist China paid for by you and me.
Well that's the thing I guess. Unless there is an alternative - a company that comes out and says "we have A+ labor conditions throughout our supply chain or are working tirelessly towards this" then there really is no alternative.jelloshotsrule said:the problem i see, in this specific case, is that (like jsw was saying, i think) all computer manufacturers use farmed out labor, and most, if not all of it, is probably not in good conditions. so, do you go without a computer? or do you buy the cheapest non apple alternative (which is all the more likely to be sweatshopped)?
i have run into this problem with other things, like shoes and clothing. i can find very few good non sweatshopped shoes... especially for specialized things like soccer shoes. new balance, and a few other small US made brands are the only ones i know of. but i need soccer shoes for soccer, so what do i do?
it's a dilemma that certainly goes beyond apple. i chose "maybe", because 1. i don't know 100% the situation with apple's conditions and 2. like i said, what sweatshop labor free alternative is there besides being computerless?
either way, it certainly concerns me. i just wish i had any alternative
What do you mean? my Quicksilver I was only $1600. It was perfect, I wouldnt mind paying a little more for a American made Mac. Looking at what they made then vs now then was betterjsw said:Yeah, but I don't miss paying $6000 for a Mac.
mduser63 said:I abhor what's going on in China with Apple's supplier(s) if the allegations are true. That said, it's not really fair to single Apple out because they're far from the only company using the same set of OEM suppliers. I'm hopeful that Apple will do what is right and see that Hon Hai fixes the problems or punish them by canceling their contract.
I didn't mean to say that Apple shouldn't be criticized and isn't responsible for doing something about the problem, it's just not fair to imply that they're the only company with this problem. I do think Apple should use their position to push for reform.Timepass said:I think it is fine to single apple out. If you are a big company and are getting a lot of media attention then it fair game that you get negitive attention as well. You dont see dell getting the same possible media attention for there new products as apple (this is not an agurment about quility here) but apple gets it. Then it only fair apple gets the negitive as well.
Plus apple is in a spot to start forcing an industry reform. The ones who have the media power to that I think are fair game to be singled out.