All iPads Shrinking an lcd display isn't that simple without quality loss.

Discussion in 'iPad' started by Zellio, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. Zellio macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    LCD's have been mass produced since the mid 90's, and only recently have reached the level of smallness they have achieved today. Just like any display, they need the right size to have as much quality as they usually have.

    Take for instance crts. They could actually be small. At one point, the army was using them in the same way that 2001 a space oddessey showed them:


    This was not a fake image, this was 'flat crts'! And they also were horrible quality, but that's the sacrifice you paid for for having huge tvs made flat and small and energy efficient. I forget the technology behind this, but it was like a projector or dlp.

    Lcds aren't going to have anywhere near this drop in quality, but shrinking them will still affect it. You should go in expecting that if you have the same display, same resolution, same everything, but one is 2" smaller, the smaller one will most probably have some soft of quality sacrifice.
  2. macfacts macrumors 68030


    Oct 7, 2012
    Are you some how trying to justify a ipad mini retina purchase? lol
    If small, high res displays are hard to make, why are there so many smart phones that are small and high res?
  3. syd430 Guest

    That's why the panel in the iPhone 5 is better than the Retina mini? :confused:

    Wow, the apologists are starting to go to desperate lengths.
  4. phrehdd macrumors 68040


    Oct 25, 2008
    I appreciate your thoughts here but I guess we will have to disagree. Go look at the history of the rear screens on dSLR cameras.
  5. JGWolven macrumors regular

    Oct 10, 2013
    These threads trying to justify the inferior display are just as ridiculous as the ones bashing it. :x
  6. Zellio thread starter macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    The iPhone 5/5c/5s resolution is 1136x640. It's not so simple to just shrink an lcd and up the resolution, otherwise it would've been done long ago.

    You people obviously don't have the slightest clue as to how lcd tech works, you just expect Apple to work 'magic' (When the displays are made by Samsung, LG and Sharp BTW), and I am the apologist here? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  7. Anti-Lucifer macrumors 6502a

    Mar 9, 2012
    The kool-aid is leaking out from your mouth!

    How about the LG G2 in 1080 in a 5.2" screen
    The nexus 5: 1920x1080 in 5" screen ?
    HTC One: 1920x1080 in a whopping 4.7" screen
    Sony Xperia Z1: 1920x1080 5" screen

    These above listed phones all are above 440 PPI making any apple device look stupid. These are also all TFT technology.

    I haven't even listed the samsung ones because they are AMOLED based screens.

    Dude, open your mind a bit apple gimped you on the iPad mini retina giving you an inferior display vs an iPad retina display (that's iPad 3/4 or 5th gen).

    It seems a lot of apple apologists out in full force. I own the iPad AIR now but I'm not bashing apple because they can't make a good display, it's because they are holding back so you can come back in 2014 for more red crunk juice they give out yearly!
  8. Zellio thread starter macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    1. I'm not an Apple apologist by any means.
    2. They don't make the displays.

    Since you talk so much about kool-aid, explain why the raspberry pi doesn't have a core i7 cpu with a titan gpu? Display have transistors too, and while 1080p displays are getting smaller, the Apple display is very odd.

    Prices go down because displays are mass produced.
  9. syd430 Guest

    I think you are confusing what's cost prohibitive and what's technologically prohibitive. Apple would not have reached the margin that they wanted and something had to give. Sure, you could argue that it is difficult and thus more expensive to put this sort of panel with this sort of resolution in a 7.9" tablet and thus being cost prohibitive (probably because they would have to figure out how to dissipate the extra heat from a 110% sRGB panel), but claiming that little old Apple was really desperate to get the same panel in the Air crammed in to 7.9 inches but it was not technologically possible is probably inaccurate. It all comes down to margins.
  10. Anti-Lucifer macrumors 6502a

    Mar 9, 2012
    it's so easy even a caveman can see this:

    the iPad mini retina has a weaker/lower/gimped color saturation than the iPad 3/4 or 5(aka AIR). Simple as that. With anandtech's review, it's seems to be inferior, yes, inferior. Resolution wise it's expected to be 326ppi sharp. For christ sake the iPads don't even have optically bonded screens thus all the light refractions making it hard to see outdoors.

    I'm not an engineer to explain to you how to make IPS LCD's that have superior color gamut. I only buy this stuff and I had to return my mini and go with an AIR. Because the mini was suppose to be the device to get but it's a SHAME (like anandtech said) that it isn't the same display as the AIR.

    PS I'm not also giving apple the benefit of any doubt because these clowns have been milking me for too long. Apple is in it for the money only - after Jobs passed, it seems they can't do anything to wow anymore. The best presentation of a device that had everything and the kitchen sink was the unveiling of the iPhone 4. that was truly the apple worth praising. These days it's all about pushing the red crunk juice to people and after all the wait for an iPad mini retina, you'd expect the same retina display like in the iPads but damn shame it's isn't and the reason is profit margins for apple.
  11. Zellio thread starter macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    So if you guys think it's that simple, do it yourself. Put the same display and the same chip, and then try to make sure that the device will not overheat given the small size. Honestly, I'd love to see the results of how hot it gets now.

    I've soldered lcds, and I've messed with different lcds in different cases. I may not be up to the level of the engineers who make them, but I certainly know more then you give me credit, and I certainly know more then you guys know. You cannot just put the same device in something smaller and expect it to perform the same.

    P.S. You shouldn't really speak unless you've owned the HTC One, as it's my phone. The device gets HOT when playing games or watching movies for a good while.
  12. Zellio, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013

    Zellio thread starter macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    If you are this concerned about a quality display, then why did you buy an Air? In order to get the device the size it is, they went with IGZO AND halved the amount of leds in the device, which is why people have uniformity issues! Because in case you don't know, leds are spread out in the back of lcds, the less their are the less backlight will be shown!

    If you were really that concerned about a quality panel, you would've gone with iPad 4 or a nexus tablet.

    At the end of the day, current technology limits your choices to either a fatter device with better quality or a skinny device with worse. Take your pick. At the end of the day, I CHOOSE to have a smaller thinner device with less quality if I'm just screwing around using the internet on the bed (Air) or going outside (Mini). I'd prefer better screens for desktops and laptops though..
  13. ohbrilliance macrumors 6502a


    May 15, 2007
    Melbourne, Australia
    At the end of the day, shrinking a panel means shrinking the pixels. It may be more difficult to achieve the same quality with smaller pixels, but there are already examples of displays with the pixel density of the retina iPad mini's display that do maintain the same quality.

    Example 1: the display on the iPhone 5/5s. Same pixel density of the retina iPad mini, similar quality to the display on the iPad Air. Please explain this anomaly to your thesis.
  14. iSayuSay macrumors 68040


    Feb 6, 2011
    I don't know what's the problem there? iPhone 5/5S resolution is lower at 1136x640. But the screen is smaller too so the pixel density is 326PPI, just the SAME as retina Mini.

    So basically iPad Mini screen is just a LARGER version of iPhone display, no more and no less. In which case, based on your argument should look worst compared to Mini, let alone Air. But in contrary, iPhone color reproduction is at least on par with iPad Air.
    Both iPad Air and iPhone display beat rMini in term of contrast and accuracy.

    That's a hole or anomaly in your theory then?
  15. zbarvian macrumors 68010

    Jul 23, 2011
  16. AdonisSMU macrumors 603

    Oct 23, 2010
    Yeah since the iPhone 4 there always seems to be this we want to parse features so we can continue selling products year after year. I would much rather see Apple put their back into it and release the beat thing possible price be damned. The Air really shouldve been the iPad 4...
  17. Zellio thread starter macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2012
    The device has the same thinness, yet a higher resolution would run hotter and require a bigger battery then the same resolution in the iphone 5 which has about the same thinness.

    But whatever. I'm just a Apple apologist. That's why I'm always standing up for Samsung and getting modded by the mods here for 'trolling'. :rolleyes:

    Or perhaps I just like to tell fanboys what they don't want to hear?

    I mean let's go over this for a second:

    1. You think the exact same screen can simply be shrunk (When the ipad Air already has a compromised screen).
    2. Since when do people care about the quality of a tablet screen so much as a resolution? Why exactly would a person buy an ipad mini retina 2 for a slightly better color gamut?
  18. iSayuSay macrumors 68040


    Feb 6, 2011
    If Apple could fit such a good display on a cramped iPhone body, then it also fits in rMini body. End of story

    Yep the resolution might be higher because more pixels to be driven in result of more heat dissipated but it also has bigger chassis so heat shouldn't be a problem.

    My point remains. To put an equally good display in rMini is technically possible but Apple would not do it. Not for $399 it's not.
  19. ZBoater macrumors G3


    Jul 2, 2007
    Sunny Florida
    Yes, how dare they! I mean, after every promise they made to make the Mini every bit the same quality/specs as the Air! All those keynotes, ads, press releases...

    Oh, wait...


    Exactly. Remember all the whining with the starting price of the Mini 1? Imagine the uproar of $429 starting price? Apple doesn't run a charity....
  20. FrankB1191 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 14, 2013
    There's been a small uproar over the $399 price. :D A few months ago, some forum members were hoping for Touch ID, base 32GB, Retina display, and various anodizing options for $299.... I almost forgot tons of RAM.

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