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I’m a consumer and should have rights to protect myself from people who think they should profit forever from an idea someone else gave them.

OK, uh, why?

I can sort of see this with software you effectively have to use, such as perhaps MS Office, but we're not discussing that software. (It runs on the Mac just fine.)

Seriously? Go back and read. I have no issue with mistakes if the developer wants to fix them. Most don’t. Developers pushed this attitude on themselves by not doing right on the consumer. If you ship a broken product fix it before you get paid for something else. It’s pretty simple.

I can only surmise that you're vastly overestimating how wealthy the average developer is. Writing an iOS app is not a get-rich-quick scheme, with very few exceptions.
 
Right. Recalls exist. And the car manufacture is expected to fix it even if they lose money. If someone loses something due to their defect they are liable for that loss.
not really , most car manufactures have plenty of problems that they never admit or fix. nothing you can do. dont like dont buy. that easy.
 
OK, uh, why?

I can sort of see this with software you effectively have to use, such as perhaps MS Office, but we're not discussing that software. (It runs on the Mac just fine.)



I can only surmise that you're vastly overestimating how wealthy the average developer is. Writing an iOS app is not a get-rich-quick scheme, with very few exceptions.
No, I realize most developers aren't rich, just like most musicians or writers. But with those professions people often persist because they enjoy it not because they expect to live off it. I see nothing wrong with writing software for fun, or working for a company that will cover the expenses. But if you want to sell software or 'license it' you should be held to standards and customers should be able to expect certain things.

Emulation is legal. It's relevant because running iOS apps on Mac is essentially that. Software I purchased on hardware I purchased. Developers don't have to support it, but they shouldn't have a say on if I can or do use it that way.
 
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Question for you @4jasontv:

Let’s say you purchase a new-with-warranty Toyota Camry from a dealership. You then decide to take this Toyota Camry off-roading on the beach and snap the front differential. Do you expect the dealership to cover this under the powertrain warranty?

The answer is no, they won’t. Taking a FWD sedan off roading is not covered under “normal operation of the vehicle”.

See: https://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty/what-voids-your-vehicles-warranty.html
 
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So we should hide one problem because others hide other problems?
who said anything about hiding. its an expectation. everything in life has problems. you have to deal with them. some dont. thats a bad developer. stay away from that software.
That's not the point, nor is it sufficient. I paid for apps that the developer nerfed after the refund period. Is their a provision to allow me to refund any app any time I purchased it if the developer breaks it in a way I find unacceptable?
why should they ?....

if you give a speech to a group of people and i dont like it , can you give me a refund. what if the information you provide is not accurate later down the road....can i have a refund than ? if you lied a bunch during the speech can i get a refund ?

didn't think so. not sure what you do a for a living. but im guessing its giving speeches of some sort.
 
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Xbox would be the only app I would even consider so I could remote play. Otherwise I see no reason to run unoptimized apps on a completely different platform. I see this more as a Dev issue than Apple Issue. No one is vocal about the inability to run M1 native apps on a iPad that I can see. If the Dev wants to allow the app in the store, that's their call.
 
unoptimized apps on a completely different platform.
I must say, I do have problem seeing how running an app on ARM architecture, controlling it with touchpad and keyboard, differs so much from running an app on ARM architecture, controlling it with touchpad and keyboard.

(Feel free to read either the first or the latter to be the M1 laptop and/or the iPad with the official iPad magic keyboard.)
 
No, I realize most developers aren't rich, just like most musicians or writers. But with those professions people often persist because they enjoy it not because they expect to live off it.
Sorry, people don’t owe you anything whether they enjoy their job or not.
I see nothing wrong with writing software for fun, or working for a company that will cover the expenses. But if you want to sell software or 'license it' you should be held to standards and customers should be able to expect certain things.
OK, and “runs on a platform it wasn’t intended for” is that standard? Why?
 
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Question for you @4jasontv:

Let’s say you purchase a new-with-warranty Toyota Camry from a dealership. You then decide to take this Toyota Camry off-roading on the beach and snap the front differential. Do you expect the dealership to cover this under the powertrain warranty?

The answer is no, they won’t. Taking a FWD sedan off roading is not covered under “normal operation of the vehicle”.

See: https://www.edmunds.com/auto-warranty/what-voids-your-vehicles-warranty.html
No, and I am not asking for a warranty if I use the software on an unsupported platform. But if I purchase a Camry Toyota has no right to tell me where I can drive it. Within their restrictions the State can, but not the manufacture. It's mine and I can use it as I wish and their warranty is voided to a degree.

If an issue with a defect in a 9 year old car is discovered, and it puts people at risk, than it should be fixed at the manufactures expense. Even if the car went off road.

who said anything about hiding. its an expectation. everything in life has problems. you have to deal with them. some dont. thats a bad developer. stay away from that software.

why should they ?....

if you give a speech to a group of people and i dont like it , can you give me a refund. what if the information you provide is not accurate later down the road....can i have a refund than ? if you lied a bunch during the speech can i get a refund ?

didn't think so. not sure what you do a for a living. but im guessing its giving speeches of some sort.
If am hired to give a speech about modern insulin production and I stop every few minutes to go to the restroom, or I show up drunk, or I get halfway through and clearly have no idea what I am saying than yeah you have every right to expect a refund. If I make a video lecture for you and then remotely replace half the lecture because I decided I no longer liked it, or I decided it sounded better in French so I updated the audio and you don't like it - you have a reason to request a refund.

If you higher me to give factual information and I lie about content than of course you have a reason to go after me for a refund. You should investigate for damages too.

I concede that no one is perfect, and no product will be either. But there is a big difference between developers who stand behind their product and those who are out the door before they even launch. My perspective comes from the fact that I have seen more of the later than the former I have developed as somewhat jaded perspective on their 'rights'. It's hard to have sympathy for an industry that can't even stand up against the bad actors in their field.
 
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Sorry, people don’t owe you anything whether they enjoy their job or not.

OK, and “runs on a platform it wasn’t intended for” is that standard? Why?
No one is saying that it has to work well on an unsupported platform. I am saying the developer doesn't have the right to say how it's run once they the software is in my hands. Even if they really want to or they plan on developing another version for that platform.

There is precedent for this. I can run Word for Windows on my Mac if I buy a Mac and Word. I can run NES games on my computer if I own the cart. I can modify my copy of photoshop to make the icons more recognizable. No one is saying the original developers have to support this use, but they have to right to tell me not to do it.
 
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I must say, I do have problem seeing how running an app on ARM architecture, controlling it with touchpad and keyboard, differs so much from running an app on ARM architecture, controlling it with touchpad and keyboard.

(Feel free to read either the first or the latter to be the M1 laptop and/or the iPad with the official iPad magic keyboard.)
Architecture ≠ Platform. I do get what your trying to say tho.
 
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So, are you going to free of charge make sure that all the people who listened to your speech are kept up to date on any developments in the filed of insulin production forever?
You don’t see the difference between adding new content and managing existing content? Is that why developers think it’s ok to paywall bug fixes behind version updates?

I don’t want the newest photoshop features. I want the ones I paid for to work correctly.

I’m not going to pay to fix something sold broken. And if you come out with a new version without fixing the old ones bugs first, than I call that fraud.
 
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not really , most car manufactures have plenty of problems that they never admit or fix. nothing you can do. dont like dont buy. that easy.
Correct. Recalls are safety focused. Otherwise it’s warranty work until the warranty ends. In rare instances, a high rate of failure combined with a concerted effort to avoid addressing the defect during warranty period can result in a class action that is successful, but usually you are SOL.
 
You own the hardware. You do not own the software, you only license it.

Feel free to wipe your hardware and put whatever you like on it.

I write Apps for a living. To be able to make a living I need to make sure my software is keeping me and my family fed.
no need to virtue signal about making money to feed your family to get your point across. no one is saying you don't have the right to sell.
 
That's just plain wrong; and it's easy to prove…

If I write a small program to handle/move my backups of apps etc, have I then broken the law if my program isn't explicitly mentioned in Apple documentation or the app developers' help section?!

(If you are going to try to say yes to that I expect a source; and do expect me to counter with actual laws.)
Yes, for professional software especially, how you backup licensed software and what you can do with the backup are almost always in the license.

Try to write a script to back up Catia or Altium executables and see how that throws everything off if you try to run copy in the backup.

This basically says, how you backup is also governed by the licensing terms from your software distributor or the developer.

For a piece of proprietary software, you have no rights for anything. You are given the permission to perform the prescribed set of interactions with the software, and that’s it.
 
You own the hardware. You do not own the software, you only license it.

Feel free to wipe your hardware and put whatever you like on it.

I write Apps for a living. To be able to make a living I need to make sure my software is keeping me and my family fed.
I write software for a living too. While a lot of it is cloud based some is deployed on customer hardware. If the customer wants to deploy the software they purchased on an unsupported hardware/operating system combination they’re not going to get support, but there’s no reason to try and actively stop them from doing it...

In this case the people have bought your app, whether they run it on a phone, a tablet, or a mac isn’t effecting your income at all. Sure, they shouldnt expect you to optimize it for a mac if you aren’t already, but as long as they’re willing to deal with that it shouldnt be your call

It’s not any different from running Windows software on a Mac under WINE. When I do that I’m not expecting any dev to support that combo if they didn't already, but I also don’t expect them to actively throw up roadblocks. This is the way software has typically worked for a long time. Hell, hacking software to run on unsupported configs is how lots of devs, myself included, learned a lot of our trade to begin with. I think developers used to mobile app stores from Apple and Google, and the walled gardens that come with, may have forgotten how the software world typically works on full fledged computers
 
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