Sierra and Scaled Resolutions BROKEN!

Discussion in 'macOS Sierra (10.12)' started by Sheza, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. Sheza macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #1
    If you're like me and you have a 1440p monitor that you like to run in 1080p HiDPI mode using a custom plist or SwitchResX, DO NOT UPGRADE TO SIERRA.

    Likewise if you have a 4K display and you like a bit more space while maintaining that sweet retina look and so you run it in 1440p HiDPI, DO NOT UPGRADE TO SIERRA.

    Apple seems to have inexplicably removed this ability. You're now forced to destroy your eyesight by running the Dell U2515H at native resolution (Windows, believe it or not, handles 1440p native better than MacOSX does on this monitor).

    One final thing - if you are a 4K or 1440p screen user and are on MacOS Sierra 10.12.1 BETA that came out today, please could you test using this method to see if they have restored this functionality?

    Otherwise I'm going to have to downgrade to El Capitan forever.
     
  2. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

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    #2
    Tons of external monitor issue with Sierra. Wonder what Apple was thinking? Makes me think maybe they are getting ready to release new displays and are wanting people to buy them...? Crazy. I too noticed total weirdness when I went to Sierra with a 32" 2560x1440 BENQ display. Got weird artifacts when booting into Sierra and when installing. The install window kept getting shifted over to the top left part of my screen. Never seen this in any older Mac OS. What are they thinking?
     
  3. ncrypt macrumors regular

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    #3
    Such a ridiculous bug (oh please be a bug), I have either HiDPi 1080p or native 3840 x 2160 on my 27" 4k monitor. Luckily I tried Sierra on a bootable clone of my Mac rather than my primary El Cap partition. Hopefully this gets fixed soon.
     
  4. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #4
    I don't agree with these posts' assertions, no offense intended to the posters, and there's no "bug". I have *more* display options in Sierra on my ASUS, BenQ, and Dell 4k displays as I'd posted earlier this evening (http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/scaling-of-external-4k-display.1999440/#post-23551101), but I'm using DP-compliant cabling (and not the cheap, non-DP-compliant cables that shipped with my 4k displays - 4 personal and 50+ company); see my screen shot before firing off a negative reply here - I'll offer that non-compliant cabling is part of this "problem" and Apple is tightening the noose on non-compliant hardware/cabling.

    I have been extolling the use of DP-compliant for several months in these forums after having issues with resolution on Win 8.1/10 and OS X for quite some time - compliant cabling fixed this, period, on dozens of my PCs and Macs. Search for, and read my previous posts about this matter.

    I've bought several SwitchResX licenses, but don't use them any longer since I figured out it is a EDID/cabling issue. FWIW, Apple's TB cables are DP-compliant, version 1.1a. I'll sell my SwitchResX license codes - I don't need them any more as that utility is just a hack/workaround for a problem solved by the correct cabling...

    If you don't want to buy compliant cables, you don't have a valid gripe IMO - with your display manufacturers or Sierra (again, read that post)...
     
  5. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

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    #5
    You're wrong. I'm using compliant cables and still seeing issues and artifacts upon boot. Don't assume that everyone else isn't using proper cabling.
     
  6. steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #6
    It would be interesting to see what happened if you swapped out the cable though.
     
  7. accentaudio macrumors 6502

    accentaudio

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    #7
    I've tried 4 different "compliant" cables. Apple has got to fix this. Funny that these issues never existed up until Sierra. And your defense of Apple is that they "tightened up their standards"... Please. Apple is so perfect we all know they aren't capable of releasing anything with bugs. LOL
     
  8. Sheza, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016

    Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #8
    I've just read your post, and now I'm very interested. You don't quite have the same set up as me as you have a 4K display, but your screenshot seemed to show native scaling to 2560x1440 on your 4K display, which is the equivalent of me wanting 1920x1080 on my 1440p display. With that in mind, you now have me very, very interested.

    However, why would Dell ship out a non-DP-compliant cable in their box?

    I'm going to nip this in the bud, though. Today or tomorrow I am going straight to an Apple store and buying a Thunderbolt cable. At least that way if it doesn't work I can refund it in person.

    If it works, I'll probably still refund it and get the cable you talk of, because I need a mini-fullsize cable as my PC uses the same cable in reverse to connect to the same monitor. (Though having just said that, I suppose I could just use a full size display port to display port cable to achieve this).

    Whatever. First - off to the Apple store to get a Thunderbolt cable. If it works, I might keep it and buy a DP-DP cable for my PC, or I will return it and buy the cable you used.
     
  9. steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #9
    You're quoting the wrong person.
     
  10. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #10
    Since Maverick, the HiDPI support getting worse and worse. There were lots of HiDPI choice when I use Mavericks, or even virtual resolution (e.g. 5k on my 27" ACD), and now down to only 4 HiDPI choices and no virtual resolution avail in Sierra.

    I alway run 1440P on my 27" ACD anyway, so, not affecting me. But it seems Apple try their best to stop Mac users to use any non Apple stuff with HiDPI (or what they called Retina)
     
  11. Miscellaneous macrumors member

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    #11
    I made a clean install of macOS Sierra on my nMP which is connected via HDMI to HDMI to an Asus MX279H 1920x1080 external monitor.

    During the installation of macOS Sierra I had the same graphical glitch that you described with the Apple logo being shifted to the top left of the screen.

    Furthermore, every time I boot or restart my nMP there is a graphics error in the form of a scrambled horizontal line just before the log in screen appears.

    My guess is that this is an issue with macOS Sierra because I have had the same setup since OS X 10.9 Mavericks and upgraded to every new OS without a problem. I was thinking of starting a new thread about this issue as I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere until I came across this one.
     
  12. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #12
    Bought the Thunderbolt cable and guess what?

    The WHOLE THING doesn't work. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I plug the Thunderbolt cable into my MacBook Pro and the other end into the mini-DP port on my Dell, and the screen does not turn on. The Mac does not detect it.
     
  13. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #13

    Sorry to hear that, but you may try difference sequence, plug the cable into the monitor first, and then plug the other end into the Mac.

    If still nothing, try the hotkey Command + F1 in Desktop.
     
  14. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #14
    Two bits of input. About the Dell cable, I have no answer for that question - one can find this issue going back years for Windows and, later, Macs, by using a web search for "Dell EDID problems" (the Ruby script on github for Macs - https://gist.github.com/ejdyksen/8302862 - and lots of Windows "solutions" will pop up). It led me down the path of using the script, hex editors, haxies, SwitchResX, and finally seeking advice on [H]ard|Forums - and it was the latter that led me to pick up my multitester and to buy cables on Amazon, and that's where I found the word "compatible", as in DisplayPort 1.2 "compatible", was just more snake oil. All along, our Eizo displays NEVER caused problems. A bit of detective work led me to buy Accell cables, and now there's a NEVER associated with the rest of our Macs and PCs. The Accell cables just work. BTW, COXOC makes the Dell cables I bought, and you'll find their retail cables are "compatible" and not "compliant"...

    Now, a warning for you and others and TB cables - the TB cables are DP 1.1a compliant, and for 4k displays you'll want a DP 1.2 compliant cable. The latter carries much more potential throughput for DP devices. See this on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.0_to_1.1 and look just below it for more on 1.2 - 1.2 allows for at least twice the throughput, and I've called that bit out in my older posts on this matter. TB cables are IMHO not going to cut it if you want to use a newer display, and decent and compliant DP 1.2 cable will work perfectly - and there seem to be even fewer makers of DP 1.2 compliant mDP>DP cables. Cheers!

    EDIT: I posted a couple of times in this thread, here's a link to my first post (with a screen shot) and the second one follows later in that thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/scaling-of-external-4k-display.1999440/#post-23551101
    --- Post Merged, Sep 22, 2016 ---
    I'm not wrong. I am not making assumptions. This "issue" goes back years - see my other post - and I used my multimeter to prove it to myself after seeing threads about this very matter on [H]ard|Forums. I've got more than 50 PCs and Macs with about 125 external displays working fine now after paying attention to this issue - that's all that I've related. After Sierra's install (not clean, an upgrade over 10.11), I'm getting even better performance and have more native options now on my 3-year old rMBP, and I posted a screen shot to show the latter in another thread yesterday - there's a link in my previous post here with the date/time in the file name. Sadly, others aren't getting the same results as I am (or the other 25-odd Macs in my shop too) - the only change I made, based on what I read on [H]ard|Forums, was make a cabling change. You don't have to or need to do anything. My Dell cables and ASUS cables both have the DP symbol on them - but both return power over Pin 20, so I replaced them and no more issues in my house of shop. My new cables and Eizo cables are listed on the DP products portal, and they work for my needs.

    The "do not upgrade to Sierra" bit is what I took issue with, and still take issue with. I believe I'm right, and I believe that Sierra isn't the "problem" here - even more so, even my older mid-2012 rMBP has more external display options than it did with 10.11 installed. I also take issue with display manufacturers shipping out cheap cables with their nice displays - all of the cables that shipped with my displays are where they belong - in the original box or in the landfill...
     
  15. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #15
    Hi,

    Makes sense - but there's a problem. I bought the Apple thunderbolt cable, and it plain does not work. I only have a 2560x1440 display, so I suppose I am not affected by the requirement to have 1.2 compatibility?

    Either way I have purchased the 2m version of the Accell cable which is (amazingly available in the UK and) coming tomorrow, but if you can get back to me with ideas for the Thunderbolt cable then all the better, will save me a trip to the Apple Store to return the cable.
     
  16. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Regarding the issue with the cable not working, there's two possibilities - less likely is there is not enough throughput and more likely you'll need to reset your display. The latter can be done by using a reset option in your display's GUI or by simply connecting your display to your computer, turning off your display and Mac, unplugging the display for several seconds then plugging the display back in and powering it on again, the turning your Mac on again.

    Any time we move a display or PC/Mac, those are the steps - powering products off then on, in that order - that we take. I find displays can be about as finicky as wireless routers connected to cable modems, they need to be connected and powered on in a certain order... Cheers!
     
  17. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #17
    Hi,

    I have reset the monitor using the GUI and also tried your power-off-power-on sequence twice for good measure, and there's been no change. The display powers on and then says no input detected. Interestingly it doesn't do the loading bar thing where it says 'I'll wait 60 seconds for a connection and then go into sleep mode'. It just sleeps straight away. Turning the MacBook on thereafter invokes no change. When I plug in using the Dell DP cable, it works (just sans scaling, of course).

    Seems as though my last hope is this cable. I bought the 2m one, hope that doesn't make a difference. I checked the model number against the one you linked, and it's the same.
     
  18. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #18
    Well, rats...

    FWIW, I haven't used a TB cable on one of these displays since my GF ordered me to clean up my space a while ago, and I do recall the experience was very laggy at the time - we use them only for data transfer now...

    Regarding the cable length, we use only the 2m cables in my shop and that's what I'm using right now - two from my rMBP going to each P2715Q, with one of the displays also connected via HDMI to my Mini Server. Too bad that I just can't reach through the internet and loan one to you for a day or so... :p
     
  19. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #19
    Well then, by tomorrow evening I should be using the exact same cable as you!
     
  20. Sheza, Sep 23, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2016

    Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #20
    So, Accell cable in, monitor on, and....

    STILL NOT WORKING!!!!

    This is what I see. I should also note that the so-called 'scaled' resolution of 720p is not truly scaled. It just displays 720p flat, as in, 720p with horrible blurry/jaggy lines and all.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Well, now this is VERY interesting.
    So I double checked that I had enabled scaling in the command line and I also did the plist hack, just force of habit really. Rebooted, and whilst the Settings window now showed one LESS resolution, the third party tool I use to reveal all resolutions SHOWED THE 1080p HiDPI ONE. Which I am now using.

    The plot...thickens?
     
  21. filmak macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Anyway, a thunderbolt cable is not going to work with normal monitors.
    You need a minidisplayport cable for your mac. The connectors seem to be the same but it's a different cable.
    A Thunderbolt cable is suitable for other tasks, like connecting disks, docks, RAID arrays, and of course Apple's dicontinued thunderbolt display, which acted as a docking station.
     
  22. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #22
    Have you tried resetting your Mac's SMC and zapping PRAM? I know the following link is about the TB display, but the rationale and steps still hold true for peripherals - I needed to do this with my main rMB about a month ago when it kept looking for an attached TB drive with a Sierra Beta on it, and I had been using the Option Key on start up to select that drive - zapping PRAM fixed that issue in minutes. Your Mac is looking for a certain kind of display via a cable that was "talking" to it not-properly, and now your Mac is talking to that display over what is, in effect, a different type of connection that is also trying to convey different data (i.e., proper EDID data).

    http://www.macrumors.com/how-to/reset-thunderbolt-display-smc-nvram/

    I talked with my IT person this morning, and she told me that she reset the BIOS on several of my PCs and reset the SMC & PRAM on about 10 Macs when I stuck her with the task of swapping cables - the rest of them "just worked". She left those details out of her billing report - I asked to be fully updated next time about this kind of stuff, nicely too as she does a great job. Resetting the SMC and PRAM does fix a multitude of ills - the metaphor for using a plunger to clear out the ills in the pipe...
    --- Post Merged, Sep 23, 2016 ---
    You should know that TB cables can and do carry DP 1.1a data, and they do work with non-TB displays/monitors. I avoid them for displays as a 2m TB cable costs me $60 and a DP-compliant cable of the same length costs under a third of that.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 23, 2016 ---
    She also shared with me that using the following sudo command should work in lieu of resetting SMC:
    sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.windowserver.plist DisplayResolutionEnabled -bool true
    and restarting your Mac and/or resetting your display. She related that she did not need to use the sudo command. FWIW, she also related that, since the cable swap she has had not had one service call related to displays on either OS platform.
     
  23. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #23
    I did recently reset my SMC after Apple tried to help me with the Thunderbolt cable. No idea about PRAM though.

    But here's my edit from above, just to bring to your attention:

    Well, now this is VERY interesting.
    So I double checked that I had enabled scaling in the command line [note: this is the line your IT person mentions, though I could have sworn I did it already anyway] and I also did the plist hack, just force of habit really. Rebooted, and whilst the Settings window now showed one LESS resolution, the third party tool I use to reveal all resolutions SHOWED THE 1080p HiDPI ONE. Which I am now using.

    The plot...thickens?

    I'm too scared to reboot or undock now in case I lose it.
     
  24. campyguy macrumors 68040

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    #24
    You didn't convey earlier, or I didn't read, that you're using a 3rd-party utility. That changes things a bit, as I am not - and don't need them any longer. All of the Mac display utilities I've used override communication between a Mac and its external displays (System>Library>Displays>Overrides) - if you have a specific override for your display on your Mac, it will interfere with any information/data being conveyed by a proper connection between your Mac and that display - for instance, each of my Dell P2715Q displays had unique identifiers tied to their hardware ESNs; those utility's overrides are likely inhibiting your Mac from "talking" to the display properly, and I write this from my own experience with SwitchResX. I deleted the "Overrides" folder on my two Macs - my rMBP that I tote around with me, and a 5k iMac I use in my main office and I no longer have issues with the Dells and BenQ displays I connect to (with the aforementioned Accell cables); I also attach a couple of Eizo displays of an employee when I'm in my main office and needing to plot drawings but I'll never tell her I'm using her displays (that I paid for, but that's besides that point). IMHO the 3rd party utility could be hampering your intent, and I offer that from my own experience - SwitchResX is banned from my company's Macs now, despite it being an essential educational utility in my past and now that I don't need it to run my business.

    Not wanting to upset your Apple cart (I'm a civil engineer, not a comedian...), which 3rd-party utility are you using? I've tried a few, including the aforementioned SwitchResX, and no longer use any haxies on any of my PCs or Macs after finding we no longer need them - they interfere with peripherals and the computers they're connected to. I used to use SwitchResX, still have licenses for that utility that I paid for too - but it "gets in the way" of the display and computer negotiating a connection, which is what it's designed to do. The screen shot I posted of my Displays Pref Pane shows "DELL P2715Q" at my house and "BENQ BL2711U" at my office - which I needed to force via SwitchResX, but now it just shows up with the Accell cable attached; my main Mac had its motherboard die and I had to reinstall *everything* - I had issues with SwitchResX before my crash - I do read Console logs - and that utility's dev is very responsive, but I've learned that it's a workaround that isn't needed with proper hardware (the aforementioned cables that I've adopted). My reading of Console logs isn't for my pleasure - an issue for me that's addressed keeps my dozens of employees working and reduces my overhead...

    Only FYI, when Apple issued SW updates in the recent past that I've posted here in these forums, specifically 10.10.3 and 10.11.3, I saw major upgrades of what was available with my displays - namely, dual display support for 4k displays and 60Hz support for those same displays. I'm now seeing resolution support in Sierra - and I was using the 323 Build before it was issued to the public - that didn't exist before, like Apple was finally unlocking access to my displays that I didn't have the day before the update was issued. As I wrote earlier, this could either be a bug or Apple cracking down on non-compliant hardware - they've unlocked new features relative to their displays in the past and again with Sierra, but I really wish they'd be a bit more forthcoming...
     
  25. Sheza thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sheza

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    #25
    Thanks for sticking with me as I try to resolve this.

    I should say that while I hadn't deleted the entire Overrides folder (it seems to exist in my installation for a reason), I did purge my system of the plist override for my specific monitor that I downloaded as a 'hack' to get it working. When I did this and used the Acell cable, neither System Preferences.app nor my third party tool which is RDM (Retina Display Menu Beta 2) which looks like a rather old piece of software, showed the scaled resolution that I wanted.

    Upon a reboot and re-instating of the haxxed plist file, RDM now (at least for this one time, who knows what will happen tomorrow) shows the HiDPI and I'm using it right now. System Preferences.app, as ever, does not.

    If I can't quite get it working tomorrow I will remove RDM and the plist and maybe the entire Overrides folder, and also reset the PRAM and SMC and everything, to try and get everything as clean as possible using just Sierra and the magic compliant cable. If it does work tomorrow, however, I would quite like to not interfere with it any more in case I can never get it back again, you know?
     

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