Simple Solution to the Touch Bar Divide

[groove-agent]

Some people like the touch bar, but a lot of people hate it. Why? Well for me, I would prefer having the escape and function keys over the touch bar.

What if Apple brought back the function keys, and put the touch bar above these keys closer to the screen? If you move the touch bar closer to the screen, it begins to slide into your field of vision as you're looking at the screen. However I notice that my function keys are hidden behind my hands as I type. This is fine as the function keys are physical and I can feel them if I can't see them.

Furthermore, let's augment the function of the touch bar as a information device such as a stock ticker, a clock, showing incoming messages, computer status etc. Let's give users the flexibility to customize the touch bar how they want to use it - an input device, an output device, or both! Maybe the touch bar could take place of the menu bar. Who knows - the sky is the limit. As long as I get my escape and function keys back.

What do you think? It would be great if someone from our talented community could do a mock up of what this might look like..

 

[watermeloncrack]

I use the touchbar more than I ever used any of the function keys.

 

[BenTrovato]

One year later, it's still faster to adjust the volume/brightness on function keys than through touchbar. It definitely looks cooler and I don't hate it but hasn't increased my productivity or enhanced my user experience at all. Par for the course.

 

[turbineseaplane]

To me the solution is to offer Touch Bar and non-Touch Bar equally across all models…

If people love it they can buy it.
Those of us that hate it can avoid it.

 

[jweinraub]

I find the idea of touch bar gimmicky. If the idea was to show contextual information, why not put it onto the actual keys themselves, or on the touch pad below? While Apple does things for the 99%, and the vocal but loud 1% minority cries foul, Apple won't change their tune to appease them. I do understand the vast majority of people don't use the function keys, or at least they don't think they do. And if they entire purpose was to have TouchID, I find that idea to be complete bollocks. You can add the sensor somewhere on the top row without the removal of the top function row. I find it difficult to believe Apple developers fail to find the use of them. Perhaps it is an age divide but Apple removing things under the guise of "courage" or this is the "future" I find offensive.

I showed it by not buying it and still using my 2012 rMBP. It works fine for me and hope it lasts until the next MBP comes out and hopefully it is actually a professional device.

It seems Apple has lost touch what professional actually means, and I think that changed the second they dropped Computer from their name.

 

[groove-agent]

That is an ideal solution, but business wise, it's inefficient to have that many models. I think Apple has too many models already.

Right now Apple punishes you for not "buying into" (literally) the touch bar by offering non-touch bar models with older hardware.

To me the solution is to offer Touch Bar and non-Touch Bar equally across all models…

If people love it they can buy it.
Those of us that hate it can avoid it.

[doublepost=1509570277][/doublepost]

One year later, it's still faster to adjust the volume/brightness on function keys than through touchbar. It definitely looks cooler and I don't hate it but hasn't increased my productivity or enhanced my user experience at all. Par for the course.

Yes, the problem is the function keys at least offer a tactile user experience. You don't have to look down to adjust brightness.

 

[Poki]

Right now Apple punishes you for not "buying into" (literally) the touch bar by offering non-touch bar models with older hardware.

The hardware in the nTB MBP is not older, it‘s just lower TDP. This means lower power consumption, and due to only requiring one fan, more space for batteries. As Apple sees this model as a MacBook Air replacement, I think that‘s a very good decision indeed.

 

[Falhófnir]

Well they’ll never get anywhere offering it as a niche feature on what I’d guess are it’s two lowest selling volume models of computer. Needs market share to encourage developers to develop for it - so all in or scrap it altogether.

 

[0989383]

Made me laugh.. someone is ‘offended’ by Apple’s TouchBar.

LOL.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Interesting poll, macrumours is by far the most anti touchbar sentiment I have come across anywhere. Due mainly to lot of people who use shortcuts that literally no one I know uses and even here it is still an 60% for the touchbar.

That vocal minority really is vocal and really does think a lot more of itself than it’s worth to Apple.

 

[leman]

They should either commit to it, or drop it. There is no middle way. IMO, Touch Bar is ultimately more useful than the obsolete physical function keys, even if its usefulness is situational. It should come at no extra price though and should be included in all Apple keyboards (including external ones). Apple should also consider adding a physical escape key (since this is the most common complaint).

 

[0989383]

Interesting poll, macrumours is by far the most anti touchbar sentiment I have come across anywhere. Due mainly to lot of people who use shortcuts that literally no one I know uses and even here it is still an 60% for the touchbar.

That vocal minority really is vocal and really does think a lot more of itself than it’s worth to Apple.

Yeah, they literally try to make anybody who disagrees with them out as an idiot - and then when we put forth a counterpoint that ruins their argument, they completely ignore it haha

 

[ugru]

Use the same class hardware for TB and nTB 13" and allow customers to choose also for the 15".

Market will decide if it was a good idea.

Such an option should be added to the poll....

 

[leman]

Use the same class hardware for TB and nTB 13" and allow customers to choose also for the 15".

Market will decide if it was a good idea.

Great idea! Of course, the prices for the Touch Bar and non Touch Bar devices should be identical. And prices should be raised across the board to account for the more complex manufacturing and logistics.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Great idea! Of course, the prices for the Touch Bar and non Touch Bar devices should be identical. And prices should be raised across the board to account for the more complex manufacturing and logistics.

I have to disagree there unless you mean they should have the same pricing and it should be lower than it currently is.

They are already making touch bar and non touch bar models on the 13" side right now.
This isn't a massive undertaking to offer both. Tim loves SKUs to accommodate many.

Touch bar model should obviously cost more due to it alone having the more expensive components (the bar, the enclave and TouchId)
[doublepost=1509633374][/doublepost]

They should either commit to it, or drop it. There is no middle way.

This I fully agree with. Not having it on any desktop options, including the iMac Pro, shows me they don't consider it an attractive pro option for their workflows and needs.

And thus, those same pros would like to have the option back to not have the TB on their Pro laptops as well so they can have identical workflows on the desktop and laptop.

 

[ugru]

Great idea! Of course, the prices for the Touch Bar and non Touch Bar devices should be identical. And prices should be raised across the board to account for the more complex manufacturing and logistics.

No, IMHO the price of the TBless ones should be lower.

If you really want it you should pay for it, also on the 15". The current price is already inflated, so produce a cheaper nonTB 15".

 

[960design]

Some people like the touch bar, but a lot of people hate it. Why? Well for me, I would prefer having the escape and function keys over the touch bar.

What if Apple brought back the function keys, and put the touch bar above these keys closer to the screen? If you move the touch bar closer to the screen, it begins to slide into your field of vision as you're looking at the screen. However I notice that my function keys are hidden behind my hands as I type. This is fine as the function keys are physical and I can feel them if I can't see them.

Furthermore, let's augment the function of the touch bar as a information device such as a stock ticker, a clock, showing incoming messages, computer status etc. Let's give users the flexibility to customize the touch bar how they want to use it - an input device, an output device, or both! Maybe the touch bar could take place of the menu bar. Who knows - the sky is the limit. As long as I get my escape and function keys back.

What do you think? It would be great if someone from our talented community could do a mock up of what this might look like..

It just took getting used to. Now I really like the touchbar.

 

[0989383]

Yeah yeah guys.. yeah..

Because if there's one thing that's so clear.. it's that Apple just has no clue about the markets they are in.. Real surprise they're even turning a profit....

I mean, read through their financial reports.. they definitely look like a company that just has no idea.. and you know, the pricing of the nTB and lack of option to choose TB on their MacBook Pros is really just killing their sales......

If only Tim Cook read these threads... you guys would teach him sooooo much about how he should run the company, and about how he could improve his products.... because he's just in dire need of your input..

HAHAHAHA Italics indicate sarcasm* Worth pointing out to you guys, who clearly don't get it! lol

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

If everyone got their way I'd worry about the Frankenstein machine that'd be created... Every port imaginable, at least 64GB of RAM, TouchBar and Function keys, smaller trackpad for no reason, glowing Apple logos everywhere, 20 hours battery life - yet same weight/thickness, 4K 10Bit 120Hz display to make LoL much better to play, nVidea graphics because that's what gamers use, 6-Core CPU so that YouTube is amazeballs, magnetic data ports that somehow don't loose data when nudged, and why not have a detachable display to finish it off.

Waidaminut, throw some RGB lighting in there for giggles - don't Razer probably make something like this? Pretty sure all that's missing is a car bucket seat and we'd have an amazing Pro Gaming laptop on our hands! And lets be honest, if being 'Pro' is about earning a living off the thing, then Pro Gamers are definitely winning ergo are the proest of us all!

 

[leman]

Touch bar model should obviously cost more due to it alone having the more expensive components (the bar, the enclave and TouchId)

Touch Bar doesn't make much sense if it costs extra. My last post of course has to be interpreted sarcastically. Urgu wrote "let the market decide". Its clear that if one model is more expensive, barely anyone would buy it. I certainly wouldn't (because a) I don't see touch bar as a feature I would pay for and b) because I have to spend public money on computers and be able to justify it). So if one really wants to know whether users in general prefer laptops with or without the Touch Bar, all the other variables, including the price have to be identical. And my position on this is clear: if Apple is serious about the Touch Bar, they have to provide if for "free" — that is, there can't be a price increase just because of the TB component.

Not to mention that Touch Bar is not the only factor for price differentiation right now. At the 13" level, you have more powerful CPUs, better SSDs, more expensive WiFi chips as well as more expensive port controller chips. All these things add up. And at the 15" model of course we went back to dGPU across the board, which also makes the story more complex. All in all, the pricing we have right now is similar to a decade ago, where a mid-tier 13" costed around $1699 and entry-level 15" with dGPU around $2499

As I see it right now, the TB 13" is a less attractive computer for its price, because the benefits over the non-touch bar model are very minor. To put it differently, if your nTB 13" can't do a certain job, your 13" TB won't be able to do it as well. So we are not buying any more 13" TB models for our employees. But then again, lets not forget that the nTB model is supposed to be the MacBook Air successor. As to the 15" model, its price is reasonable simply because its similar to what a computer with that spec ever cost at Apple.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Touch Bar doesn't make much sense if it costs extra. My last post of course has to be interpreted sarcastically. Urgu wrote "let the market decide". Its clear that if one model is more expensive, barely anyone would buy it. I certainly wouldn't (because a) I don't see touch bar as a feature I would pay for and b) because I have to spend pubic money on computers and be able to justify it). So if one really wants to know whether users in general prefer laptops with or without the Touch Bar, all the other variables, including the price have to be identical. And my position on this is clear: if Apple is serious about the Touch Bar, they have to provide if for "free" — that is, there can't be a price increase just because of the TB component.

Not to mention that Touch Bar is not the only factor for price differentiation right now. At the 13" level, you have more powerful CPUs, better SSDs, more expensive WiFi chips as well as more expensive port controller chips. All these things add up. And at the 15" model of course we went back to dGPU across the board, which also makes the story more complex. All in all, the pricing we have right now is similar to a decade ago, where a mid-tier 13" costed around $1699 and entry-level 15" with dGPU around $2499

It's true that the computer is a lot more than the TB, in reality I don't think the omission of the TB would drastically reduce the price enough to be noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

It is an interesting point though as I too don't think many would pay extra just for an OLED touchscreen, so they must've made some concessions to make it viable. Unless of course it's an iPhone in which case people will more than happily pay the extra few hundred

 

[leman]

Good point, I have fixed it I will just blame it on Apple's terrible autocorrect

 

[turbineseaplane]

Touch Bar doesn't make much sense if it costs extra

Agreed.
I would go further and add that it doesn't really make much sense, period, since they're not in implementing it across the line.

I truly have no problem with the Touch Bar existing… I just want them to offer it as a non-option across the laptops so it's not forced on those of us that find it completely unwieldy and annoying and frankly a step in the wrong direction for how we use our computers.

If they have to keep the price the same and gouge us all, so be it… Just please offer the exact same processor and GPU and screen size options with and without the Touch Bar

 

[PowerGala]

I was very much anti-touchbar when they announced it, but I bought a 13 inch MacBook Pro with a touchbar anyway. It hasn’t really caused me any problems, so I think it’s fine. If they want to offer higher configurations with the function keys, then that’s fine too.

They do offer a New 13 inch MacBook Pro without the Touchbar that can be configured with an i7, but it would be nice if they offered it in the 15 inch model for people that want it.

 

[bbowser12]

Using it approve system "yes/no" boxes, and touch-id for purchases and approving installs has been awesome. Never realized how much mouse movement and time was involved in all these dialogues. Having the buttons on the touch bar is by far the best feature.

Oh yeah, and CUSTOMIZE IT!!! First thing I did was remove Siri and replace it with more volume/itunes controls. You will hit the Siri button while trying to hit delete, I guarantee it. Coda 2 integration is excellent too.