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Simple Solution to the Touch Bar Divide
- Thread starter groove-agent
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It makes lot of sense when you use BetterTouchTool to make it looking like you.
What doesn't make sense, it is apple and how childish implementation they offer... very amateurish... looks more like, they put it there, but they didn't have any real good ideas, how to use it.
You very nicely summarized the biggest problem with the Touch Bar for me..
IMO it's a concept that really has the most appeal to less power oriented users (not heavy touch type and KB shortcut users), yet to really get truly useful benefit out of it one must use an exceptionally power oriented user application (BTT - which I use and love)
I'm not exactly a "pro" level user (teacher who uses Laptop for normal teacher/student stuff) but I have to say for me the Tb is really a cool feature. Gives some new and interesting features and looks really good.
I don't really understand why people dislike it so much. Maybe after living with it longer I'll see the issues.
I don't really understand why people dislike it so much. Maybe after living with it longer I'll see the issues.
I take it you are not a touch typer then? THAT is the main issue. Everything I'm writing now I'm typing with out looking at the keys (well ok 95% of it). With a touch bar I constantly will have to look down and see what I'm about to press. That slows thing down considerably. That is what is so bad about it. Particularly, if you are one of those folks who has set up their own function key shortcuts.
Sorry for my ignorance I’m deciding to purchase a MacBook Pro, are you saying the keyboard keys where you type are different on the touch bar model?
That's the issue right there.
Very established longtime users often are complete touch typists who know all the myriad of shortcuts, etc.
I honestly think offering the touch bar is fine. My issue is that they are forcing it on you if you don't want it on all the most modern, powerful and large machines. Just frustrating.
Please just give us the option to have it or not across the line.
The Touchbar replaces the upper row of function keys including the Escape key. So if you tend to use those keys alot then you may not be happy. If you don't you might not notice. Best thing is go into a store and look at the touch bar and non-touch bar options side by side, try them out and think aobut whether that would annoy you or not!
that all makes sense to me. I can type almost completely without looking at what I am pressing but I don't have to type a heavy work load anymore unlike some PRO users. For a user like me the touch bar is actually pretty useful I'd say.
I can see how it would be annoying for some people and it is unfortunate that there isnt the option of a non TB at the higher spec levels.
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Thank you for the clarification I see what you guys mean now having to reach/feel for the keys in that area but the touch bar has no keys protruding out. For sure I will visit a store, I like the touch bar idea but also prefer standard keys.
Don't really care how, I just want Escape & Fn keys back on the 15" MBP w/ highest-end CPU/GPU. This can be a BTO option that swaps Touch Bar for keys; I'd even pay an extra $100 for that. Or it could be having both the keys and the TouchBar.
I understand how the Touch Bar can be useful, but I touch type and my main usage of a 15" MBP is software dev, so for me, personally, escape and Fn keys are considerably more useful.
I understand how the Touch Bar can be useful, but I touch type and my main usage of a 15" MBP is software dev, so for me, personally, escape and Fn keys are considerably more useful.
If the Touch Bar was such a great innovation, why aren't PC manufacturers rushing out to copy it like they do with every other aspect of the Mac?
There's one option missing: neither TouchBar, nor function keys. Just or completeness' sake!
Anyway, I voted to keep the TouchBar without F-keys. And I code in vi (which uses the ESC key all the time). And I type blind (keyboard says azerty but works as US international with deadkeys... confuses the hell out of people!) Disclaimer: I don't currently have a TouchBar mac.
Why am I pro TouchBar? Because I find the potential to be greater than the downsides. I've remapped ESC to the key below it, which is where it should've been all along (having learnt vi on a SVR4 Unix terminal). Yes, I know it's less tactile to change brightness/volume. But I also read remarks that people save time in programs like FCP because of it. If it's configurable enough (either native or through 3rd party programs), it will be a time saver.
So why aren't PC manufacturers following? Honestly, after seeing the ghastly rgb keyboards they come up with, I'm happy one brand tries something else. It's much more courageous to try and invent a change in user interaction than to add vulgar flashy bits.
Anyway, I voted to keep the TouchBar without F-keys. And I code in vi (which uses the ESC key all the time). And I type blind (keyboard says azerty but works as US international with deadkeys... confuses the hell out of people!) Disclaimer: I don't currently have a TouchBar mac.
Why am I pro TouchBar? Because I find the potential to be greater than the downsides. I've remapped ESC to the key below it, which is where it should've been all along (having learnt vi on a SVR4 Unix terminal). Yes, I know it's less tactile to change brightness/volume. But I also read remarks that people save time in programs like FCP because of it. If it's configurable enough (either native or through 3rd party programs), it will be a time saver.
So why aren't PC manufacturers following? Honestly, after seeing the ghastly rgb keyboards they come up with, I'm happy one brand tries something else. It's much more courageous to try and invent a change in user interaction than to add vulgar flashy bits.
Interesting perspective. So you remapped Escape to the ` key? You don't use Cmd-` to switch between windows in an app, or did you map that to something else? I know a lot of people are mapping Escape to Caps Lock and that makes sense to me.
Just to give some examples of what I spend a bulk of my time in: IntelliJ IDEA, Emacs, Visual Studio and various other dev tools. I have various actions bound to function keys and I press them without looking. Could I rebind these things to other key combinations? Sure, but I've got a ton of key combinations bound as it is, so it just complicates my life. And what do I gain for software dev? About the only thing I can think of is maybe a color picker, and I do that so rarely it's not worth it. Anything else is single-press actions that fit perfectly with regular function keys. I don't look at my keyboard, so having them labeled doesn't buy me anything, and having to look down to find them is a worse experience.
What really kills it is that there is no desktop version of it. I use an external keyboard most of the time, so now the 10% of the time I'm on my laptop keyboard I've got this weird non-standard thing that I'm not really used to? No thanks. But the fact that they haven't released a desktop version gives me some hope that Apple isn't fully committed to this, and we may see them backtrack on it in a future MBP generation.
On my personal machine at home, I do video editing (FCP X), music production (Ableton Live), and photos (Photos.app). Sure, there is some small amount of utility in the Touch Bar for these types of apps. But not enough for me to want to give up those keys, and in any case, my personal machine is a desktop that doesn't even have the Touch Bar as an option (iMac currently). If I wanted a touchscreen to interface with these apps, I'd rather be using an iPad (plenty of options already in this space, including Apple's own iPad interface for Logic, for example).
Disclaimer: I've never owned a TouchBar MBP, but have used them in person enough to get a feel for what the experience is like.
Fortunately, Apple still offers laptops with the regular keyboard. I just wish they offered a config with the latest top-end specs in the larger model (15"). I'm hoping we will see FaceID in a future MBP, and since Touch ID will no longer be necessary, a top-end model with a regular keyboard will make sense.
I understand many people like it, but count me out on this one. I've been sticking with Macs for the last decade because they get so many things right, and it's been a stable platform. Touch Bar is a thing that erodes this.
Yeah. It's crazy.
Bunch of idiots trying to use the escape key or change the volume, screen, keyboard brightness with one step.
2-3 steps is obviously 2-3 times more fun.
I just don't get people at all...
Yeah I know, app specific shortcuts with one touch without having to learn hundreds of key combinations, configurable keys depending on apps, sliders for graduated processes in audio and video and photo editing software, touch ID access, Office specific brilliance like rotation with a slide for inserted figures and photos, power-point controls for presentations and full screen mode with style options on the keyboard, who in their right mind would want that??
Yeah I know, app specific shortcuts with one touch without having to learn hundreds of key combinations, configurable keys depending on apps, sliders for graduated processes in audio and video and photo editing software, touch ID access, Office specific brilliance like rotation with a slide for inserted figures and photos, power-point controls for presentations and full screen mode with style options on the keyboard, who in their right mind would want that??
People who can't type.
On my European keyboard, the left shift is narrower. So there's another key next to the Z. By default in the US international layout, it's a \| key, but I'm used to having that key next to the (vertical) enter key. So I mapped the key next to the Z to be `. That also puts it very near the CTRL for quick in-app window switching.
I checked the Apple keyboard layouts. EU ones usually have one key more than US ones. That may make the difference.
I usually don't set up function keys for my own use. In my situation, I need to be very promiscuous with the machines I work on. Nearly every day, I work on at least 3 different ones (coincidentially, a Windows one, my mac and a Linux machine). I guess that may mean that I'm less tied to what Apple used to offer and I can switch more easily to the TouchBar. Call me geeky, but it's a nifty new feature that merits exploring. While Apple insists it's a type of keyboard (not a screen), I'm still looking forward to writing a Mandelbrot zoom-in app for it
Oooh that's me!!!!
I hate typing and shortcuts and will use gestures menus and just about anything to avoid it.